Total net SEQ losses: 18 Coalition (one captured), 12 Alliance. Net gain of 7 for the Alliance (including addition of capture).

EPs Damage Done: 166.5 (kills, assuming full repairs at half rate, plus direct losses by depriving Coalition of income).

EPs Damage Taken: 77 (Kills, assuming full repairs).

At 2:1 eco damage, that's not a bad turn for A7 when the Coalition still remains quite dominant!

Still, can't get cocky. The Coalition *remains* dominant and can very much still win this game. However, most of the time, F&E is about incremental gains and losses that add up over time, so I'll take the "win".

By William Jockusch (Verybadcat2) on Wednesday, March 13, 2019 - 12:58 pm: Edit

One measure of success during this period is whether the Fed economy is bigger or smaller on turns 8-9 as compared with turn 7. They may be able to roughly hold steady, ignoring the 0.75 multiplier on turn 7. Of course it depends on how much the Klingons send to their front versus elsewhere.

By William Jockusch (Verybadcat2) on Wednesday, March 13, 2019 - 12:59 pm: Edit

And hell yeah, you are correct to have the Hydrans and Kzinti make a pain of themselves so as to reduce the Pressure on the Feds.

By Dana Madsen (Dfm330) on Wednesday, March 13, 2019 - 03:35 pm: Edit

HTO:
I lost 6 to 0 on ships this turn but don't think that is the full story. I believe I kept at least 3 Hydran ships from being built and I get salvage for my losses and the Hydrans get no salvage for ships that never got built. There is Hydrax itself and SB 215, otherwise we the Hydrans have no on space infrastructure. So even with 2 Resv groups if I show up to contest a planet with 25 or more ships, he has to decide whether to come fight and exchange dead ships in deep space. I probably have about 15 to 20 more ships in the theatre then I need to hold him, but that's a self solving problem.

ZTO:
No doubt I was short some ships for this theatre and that was a mistake. But I think the number is only 5 to 10. The 3 places where we had stand up pin fights it was clear the best of the Kzin fleet can't stand and fight multiple rounds giving up all his fighters. Losing 3 ships is more than he can replace next turn. This was also the max $ that he can throw at me. I think I have a couple more cripples that he missed though, a JGP and BT. I also show him with another crippled MEC and he has so few medium escorts all of them count. I may need to put another MB or a couple PDU'S on some of these planets though. The DN and BC are big ships lost but they both get replaced this turn. For the time the Lyran econ is bigger than combined Hydran and Kzin plus some and the Lyrans out build both of them.

FTO:
Though I would have liked to hold 2306 but planet 2106 was sufficient and not in danger. The FRD'S at 1807 can move forward 3 hexes and I seem to have more than enough ships in area to keep them safe. Next turn will get better to as I got a little spread out hitting all the Fed targets and then spreading out for repair. Really as I don't think I want to accidentally activate the Feds Rom fleet on T8 I believe I need to stay out of range 3 of Earth anyways

Agreed that I need to see how much I can reduce Fed income soon. I need to reduce him enough that he struggles to build his own ships and not worry about sending 20 EP to the Kzin. We'll see how much pressure I can keep up and then the Roms come in.

By Paul Howard (Raven) on Thursday, March 14, 2019 - 03:21 am: Edit

Sounds like 'Politically' both sides won

(Would it be any other way?)

Certainly a good turn for the Alliance- and extracting crippled ships can be crucial.

One thing - I don't think I would ever risk the 3rd Freeze attempt on weaker SFG hulls.

Reward might be a third enemy hull.... risk could be the loss of the SFG and no enemy ships though!

By Dana Madsen (Dfm330) on Thursday, March 14, 2019 - 07:23 am: Edit

Well I've had unimpressive luck with stasis this game. Maybe I shouldn't be trying the third attempt but two don't seem worthwhile.

Ted had a weak line, with a fleet that was half crippled and 5/6 I was going to get a good pursuit and clean up the cripples. I think he had a DNL in form, DN, CC, CA, NCL, 5 crip ships, and TGT/SPBP in scout. It was about a 62 pt line. I had a 90+ pt line with 9 EW and a mauler.
First attempt I chose the DN, got a random result and ended up freezing a crippled DD. Second result I rolled a 6 and got nothing frozen. So even if I had chosen 2 attempts and stopped there it was already a failure. Third attempt rolled a second 6 causing disaster. I then got a poor roll but it was enough to maul the DN in the open. Ted got a good roll and easily generated enough to kill the D7A even through the -2 shift. Then I rolled another 6 and failed pursuit on the cripples. Overall it was an uninspiring set of rolls.

I think I'm not going to build another D7A this turn and put the kit away for a pair on a bigger ship.

By Ted Fay (Catwhoeatsphoto) on Thursday, March 14, 2019 - 09:47 am: Edit

When I play Coalition I usually save my SFG kits for quite a number of turns. I then have enough for a SBAA over 617 (prevents the Hydrans from one-shotting the SB by going high BIR) and one or two B10AAs. I usually build C9As when they come out in Y175.

However, I will say this. I'm now seeing the merit of using your kits early and having D7As. Their mere *threat* is enough to change Alliance decision making. And while you do lose those D7As you usually do get several key Alliance units along the way, and that is quite helpful.

So, now I'm thinking it's probably a good idea to have one D7A per theater (maybe 2 on the Feds) and then just be judicious about when you actually deploy them. That way their threat is still available to you, but you can save enough kits to get those C9A and B10AA units that are so frightening. Maybe skip the SBAA since the kits are being used on D7's early.

Anyway, thinking out loud for the next time I play Coalition...

By chris upson (Misanthropope) on Thursday, March 14, 2019 - 11:04 am: Edit

the early D7As seem necessary ("ask me for anything but time!"). keep them together, because two D7As in one line get you more extra alliance hulls killed and give you a much higher chance of keeping one of your D7As than if you commit them piecemeal.

if i could spare a C8 to convert to a C9A (who is still after all pretty brittle) i'd think pretty hard whether what i really wanted to do was take the extra die on a B10AA.

By Ted Fay (Catwhoeatsphoto) on Thursday, March 14, 2019 - 12:27 pm: Edit

Hmmm. Dunno. That's a good idea too. Maybe something in the middle - put two or three SFG ships in one theater (probably Hydran) and none in the other. Then save the rest of the kits later for the better units. Maximize threat.

Note that (312.111) prevents you from unconverting D7As once you make them, so once you use it you are highly unlikely to be able to get that kit back for later use.

YMMV, I suppose. I don't think there's a "right" answer here - depends on your objectives and play style I think.

By Ted Fay (Catwhoeatsphoto) on Thursday, March 14, 2019 - 12:28 pm: Edit

A7 is Over. Most of the report above covers the action. My summary to Dana via email about covers the retro/strat/reserves - so I'll just copy it here for the peanut gallery.

In the HTO I left some 80 SEQ at Hydrax, including mostly the creme-de-la-creme of the Hydran navy. I figured you can pin me out there no matter what you do, and I wouldn't fight to the last Hydran to defend the capital anyway, and the very best lines I can muster are still there to defend the capital. That, I think, provides sufficient deterrence. I put one powerful reserve on 215 so that it can't be blocked, even if it can be pinned. More ships there also mean more pressure to defend the Hydran theater and a tougher SB. The other reserve (a powerful one) is offmap.

In the ZTO, C8 is going to be a blue milk run. I have no reserves and all I left on the map is a sacrificial crippled FFT which did it's job already. All that is manning that ship is a few criminals and failed officers and crewmen awaiting to be invited to a Lyran dinner party. Mostly you'll just be re-arranging your defenders and figuring out how much you want in the ZTO to try to contain the lurking Kzinti fleet.

In the FTO I still managed 40 defenders for 3rd fleet SB. I left some FFs as pickets to making taking outer BATS slightly more misreable. I put 4th fleet (32 SEQ) and 3 reserves (one powerful at 15 SEQ and two medium at 10 SEQ apiece) all on Pacifica (Major 2708). Theoretically you could come close to pinning it, but then you would 1) release the 6th fleet (by coming within 3 hexes of Earth) and 2) leave your forward ships unable to retrograde. So, I'm betting you won't even try - and that puts all my reserves in range of all good targets you can hit on C8. That will complicate your planning somewhat. Personally, I predict you will "shotgun" and force me to pick three targets to save (where you get shellacked) from among many good choices (where you have a blue milk run). We'll see!

By Ted Fay (Catwhoeatsphoto) on Thursday, March 14, 2019 - 01:39 pm: Edit

Dana pointed out he could pin my reserves at 2708 and then retrograde to 2106 - which is correct. However, I still don't think he will. He'd activate the 6th, which gives me the ability to upgrade bases in that area (and the temporary use of ships on A8 and maybe A9 against the Klingons).

I still predict the shotgun approach. We will see I suppose.

By Jason E. Schaff (Jschaff297061) on Thursday, March 14, 2019 - 10:30 pm: Edit

Re: stasis ships

My experience (mostly on the receiving end ) is that one stasis ship is annoying, but two together are very scary. Even the random ship results can become very dangerous when you get to the 3rd or 4th rolls.

By Richard B. Eitzen (Rbeitzen) on Thursday, March 14, 2019 - 10:55 pm: Edit

I try to pair them together (D7As) only using a single one if there is some unusual opportunity.

I try to make sure I have enough for B10s, as two B10AA hulls is horrifically powerful.

Ted's point about using SFGs to make a SB safe from directed crippling is a good one.

C9As are nice, but it hurts when you lose one.

By Ted Fay (Catwhoeatsphoto) on Friday, March 15, 2019 - 08:46 am: Edit

What I like about the C9A is that, assuming no EW shift, they cannot get the "Total Disaster!" result, making it a lot easier to risk trying to freeze three ships.

Yes to 2*B10AA. EXTREMELY scary. You go for 10 freeze attempts instead of 12 to prevent the total disaster result assuming no EW shift. You can easily end up freezing most of the enemy's line, and there's not enough compot left over to even cripple a B10.

I, personally, have not gotten an F&E game to go long enough where I get a second B10AA. In fact, I haven't even used a B10AA in actual combat yet, because I just have not been willing to risk getting the B10 crippled (or worse, killed). Hopefully will change that someday.

By Ted Fay (Catwhoeatsphoto) on Friday, March 15, 2019 - 09:48 am: Edit

The C9 is also somewhat tougher, so slightly more likely to live after using it's device.

By Dana Madsen (Dfm330) on Saturday, March 16, 2019 - 07:11 pm: Edit

T8C Econ

Lyran
- 14 debt at start
- 130 income + 3 Dipl
- 11 balance from prev turn
- 22 repair
- 91 const (DNL, CV, CW, STJ, CWE, LTT, 2xDW, DWE, 4xFF, PDU for 1202, MMG, MB to BATS at 1013, MB to BS at 0312(ENG))
- 6 conv (CL->BC)
- 4 E&S raids (sabotage Hydr econ, cripple Hydr DE at 0215)
- Pay off 14 debt, balance 0.

I'd been concentrating on plain DN builds but I need the pin count vs Kzin after last turn and have the better pursuit line will help.

Klingons
- 32 debt at start
- 165 income + 3 dipl
- borrow 13, new debt 45
- 25 balance from prev turn
- 66 repair
- 126 const (C8, D6M, D6G, 7xD5, D5H, MD5, F5L, 2xE4(subbed), 6xF5, E4, FRD)
- 5 activate (2xD6, 3xE4)
- 5 conversions (D5->D5V during repair, 2xD5->AD5, 2xF5->F5E)
- B10 roll (2, total 20)
- Swarm (11, total 42)

By Richard B. Eitzen (Rbeitzen) on Saturday, March 16, 2019 - 08:50 pm: Edit

Didn't want to start a 2nd B10?

By Peter Bakija (Bakija) on Saturday, March 16, 2019 - 09:48 pm: Edit

Richard wrote:
>>Didn't want to start a 2nd B10?>>

Now that I'm 23 turns in, I regret not building a second one. And now it is too late to start a new one...

By William Jockusch (Verybadcat2) on Sunday, March 17, 2019 - 08:36 am: Edit

Rules that allow the Klingons to freeze most of the enemy line seem a bit broken. Depending on the situation, the Alliance might be able to counter with EW. But it still seems a little off.

By Dana Madsen (Dfm330) on Sunday, March 17, 2019 - 10:33 am: Edit

Nope to the 2nd B10, thought about it. I could be arrogant and say that I intend to have won by the time it would be available. But really, I hate debt and I don't want to commit to spending a lot of EP on interest for an item that isn't available until T20 or so.

Raids
Lyran lost 2 prime teams in raids. Failed to disrupt Hydran econ, but crippled a DE at SB 0215, I figure that's useful for later.
Klingon raid to disrupt prov 0419 failed.
Roms successfully raid 2 Fed prov

Movement has started.
Lyrans have pinned Hydrans at SB 215 to start movement.

I counted up, he has 43 SE at 215 and 17 in a Reserve off map plus 66 quality ship SE at Home and another 15 SE at home of SAV/LAV/POL/Mon-ftr etc. I have 100 SE at 1013 making sure that he can't break through the pin and kill the BATS, 10 ships occupying prov, and 80 SE between 0416 and 0312 where I've set up a new MB (and have an ENG upgrading it this turn). I just have too many ships here and some that need to be elsewhere.

Anyways I've realized that I'll just simplify the strategic situation if SB 215 doesn't exist anymore. So I took a look at ship types.
Class Hydran Lyran
DN 1 2
CA 5 10
CW 8 (HR) 29
DW/DD 4.5 32
FF 24 5
FTR 91 24

Well, if we have a big fight here I have almost no repair within range (a single FRD). But that would mostly be solved the 2nd turn. We'll see how this goes.

Movement is just starting in Fed space.

By Dana Madsen (Dfm330) on Tuesday, March 19, 2019 - 10:59 am: Edit

Movement is finished.

About 80 SE have hit SB 215 in Hydran space, that's the only fight there. Otherwise 100 SE or so sat on 1013 and are protecting a Lyran BATS upgrade, they saw no reason to make a run at the capital exchanging cripples for fighters. I thought about isolating 215 and not letting him collect salvage for any ships I killed. But then I went back and reviewed rulings on what a reserve fleet is allowed to do to open up supply and realized he could probably take his off map resv and go to planet 416 reclaiming it. Which he is likely to do on his turn anyways but right now, it would be annoying.

In Fed space I have hit planet 2505 with a strong force and 2705 with a weak force. BATS 2603 has a weak force attacking it. I'm moving to retake 2306 which has no defenses. I have a strong force attacking 2610 and a weak force at 2612. I will also take down the neutral zone planets and BATS 2816 and 3016 which no reserves can reach. A moderate force is retaking 2715.

I have ignored SB 2211 and BATS 2213.

Ted has 3 reserves, 1 strong and 2 medium. If any resv shows up to something I labelled weak I'll run after 1 round of approach. Any force I labelled as a strong attack would likely need the strong Fed resv to save it or maybe 2 Resv though. One medium resv would just cause me a few more cripples.

Oh, 5 Klingon FRDs were towed forward into Klingon space, 4 at 2106 and 1 at 2107. A SAF also moved to 2106

By Ted Fay (Catwhoeatsphoto) on Tuesday, March 19, 2019 - 01:58 pm: Edit

Fed strong reserve to 2610. It *might* be enough to save 2610 because his reserves are all E4s. If not, I can cause enough cripples he might change his mind about fighting to take the planet.

Fed medium reserve (including LAV) to 2705. He'll probably be forced to sac D5 and D7.

Fed medium reserve to BATS 2602. He'll be forced to sac 2*D5 probably.

In part I chose reserves to maximize his ship casualties; and in part for eco reasons. He's attacking two *new* planets (not attacked yet), but one of them (2515) has a very strong fleet and it would take two reserves to save it (and even then he'd make a mess of my fleet). I chose to send 3 reserves to three different casualties where I can cause the most harm, save the most eco, and take the least damage on the Venn diagram between those three factors.

By Ryan Opel (Ryan) on Tuesday, March 19, 2019 - 06:48 pm: Edit

Nice reference to your TacNote Ted.

By Ted Fay (Catwhoeatsphoto) on Wednesday, March 20, 2019 - 09:22 am: Edit

LOL, wish I could claim that was deliberate - I had forgotten about that one! =)

By Ted Fay (Catwhoeatsphoto) on Wednesday, March 20, 2019 - 01:50 pm: Edit

C8 Battle update 1.

Battle for Hydran SB 215 over. It was brutal - and the Hydrans definitely came out the loser. Overall I was severely outrolled, with me getting a single 5 (highest roll) in 17 rounds - and then only at the end where it doesn't really matter so much. We had several 1/5 or 1/6 splits.

Upshot, while the Hydrans got their pound of flesh, the Coalition are definitely the winners in terms of damage done, SEQ reduction, and eco hit.

Such are the fortunes of war.

Tale of the tape (everything dead was directed):

Hydran KIA: LM, 7*HR, LN, 3*HN, TG+S, SC (18 SEQ and change).

Hydran WIA: PAL, RN, THR, HR, CW (CAPTURED), 2*CU, 3*HN, TG+V, UH, 2*DE, 2*AH.

Lyran KIA: 2*BC, CC, STT, STJ, 4*CW (1 captured), 2*DWS, DWE, LTT+N, DWG

Klingon KIA: D7, F5J (Net 16 SEQ with Lyrans).

Lyran WIA: TG+A, 13*CW, DW, CVL, 2*CWE, DWE, SC

Klingon WIA: D6S


Net SEQ loss is (with captured ship) even at 17 - but that is clearly a win for the Coalition given the relative sizes of the navies involved.