Well, I wasn't bothered enough for a formal Q&A - 411.34 would be an easy section to add a line about unreleased ships being temporarily countered as non-reacting units...

...but that would require a rule change.

(Logically, I can see inactive ships temporarily going outside their permitted areas for crucial missions and that's probably why at the moment, it appears they do effect supply outside their area).

By Richard B. Eitzen (Rbeitzen) on Friday, July 26, 2019 - 05:21 pm: Edit

It doesn't require a rules change, the above comment seems to say it (ie a unit must be able to react and in the case of inactive units and hexes outside of their area, they cannot). Q*A might be used to request a concrete assurance, but really that;s sufficient. If my opponent insisted on ignoring that, well, the game between us is most likely going to have other problems.

By Paul Howard (Raven) on Saturday, July 27, 2019 - 05:02 am: Edit

Richard

I feel there is a difference between not being able to react due to a physical inability versus a temporary inability to react due to a political constraint - but you might be right

By Richard B. Eitzen (Rbeitzen) on Saturday, July 27, 2019 - 11:10 am: Edit

You may feel that way, but the rules do not make such a distinction. It would take a Q&A to create a clarification for such a distinction, which since it would let inactive fleets affect things outside their area, is not something that I think would actually happen.

By Bill Powell (Bleedingbill) on Monday, July 29, 2019 - 11:56 pm: Edit

Hello there, A couple of friends and I have a question concerning section 450.1 from Planetary Operations. This section deals with minor shipyards. At first glance this rule seems to be saying that for each minor shipyard that I purchase, I can build an additional ship, depending on the type of shipyard purchased. Such as buying a Frigate shipyard will let me build an additional FF above the scheduled number allowed, but the FF cost would be the same as a scheduled FF, or whatever type of shipyard you purchase. The only thing that is confusing us is section 450.111 which states "Only one shipyard of any type can be built in a sector that is not the main effort. The maximum limit for the sector of the main effort is reduced by one for each of a race's other sectors." We are going to play the main campaign and I guess that the main confusion for us is what is meant by the main effort? Section 450.12 shows the number and cost for each type of minor shipyard and we understand that the minor shipyards cannot be build in the capital hex, but we are uncertain what is meant by main effort as it is used in section 450.111 I'm sure that it will turn out to mean something real simple, but right now it has us scratching or heads. Any explanation would be greatly appreciated.

By Richard B. Eitzen (Rbeitzen) on Tuesday, July 30, 2019 - 12:14 am: Edit

There are scenarios that you can play for a part of the general war, in a specific period of time, say turns 10-15 or whatever.

These scenarios also divide the map into sectors so that you can play just a part of the general war, say... the Hydran theatre.

A given empire might participate in several sectors, such as the Klingons who might participate in a sector with the Hydrans in it and a different sector containint the Kzinti and so on.

For a given empire, only one sector is the one with the main effort. For some empires that appear in only one sector, then that sector is the main effort. If not playing one of these scenarios (or if playing one and you use all the sectors and choose to dispense with the sector rules for limits on things like MSYs) you can ignore any comment about sectors or main effort.

By Bill Powell (Bleedingbill) on Tuesday, July 30, 2019 - 09:18 am: Edit

Thank you for the prompt reply Richard. We are starting our game today, and I was supposed to pose this question last week and had a brain cramp.

By Bill Powell (Bleedingbill) on Thursday, August 01, 2019 - 01:57 am: Edit

This question is related to Andy Johnson's above question relating to economic levels for future belligerents in the grand campaign. After talking to Andy about the economic levels for each race before they go to war I noted that only the Federation and Gorns are specifically stated that they are on a peace time economy while at peace and that the Hydrans and Romulans are noted that they are at a wartime economy for later purposes of exhaustion but not at war while at peace. Section 652.212 states that an empire at peacetime economy collects at the 50 percent rate . Does that mean that the Hydran and Romulan empires collect money at the 100 percent rate then, and can spend it as noted on their pre-war schedule as well as on conversions?

By Thomas Mathews (Turtle) on Thursday, August 01, 2019 - 06:43 am: Edit

Bill and Andy, the Hydrans and Romulans are on a wartime economy under (601.162) and (603.17) respectively, but they do not receive any EPs and cannot change their economic level under (652.2). As a result, they cannot change what they receive as new construction and/or conversions on their appropriate Order of Battle (709.0) and (703.0) respectively. The exception to the above is diplomatic income (540.22) and (540.23). This income can spent as desired on conversions or overbuilds. However, in the case of the Hydrans they would only generate 2 EPs for use on turn 2 so they would be better to save them for use on turn 3. The Romulans can generate a much more usable number of EPs with Diplomatic trade that can be used for conversions and such. Their are several tactical notes in various Captain's Logs on ways to spend this money effectively.

By Peter Bakija (Bakija) on Thursday, August 01, 2019 - 08:24 am: Edit

Andy wrote in Q+A:
>>Q1) Could the Gorn, Feds, Romulans, announce themselves to be on anything other than a peacetime economic condition prior to actual war breaking out? e.g. Turn 3 Roms announce wartime economics and collect 100% of their economy rather that 50%.>>

(I'm not an official answer person)

No. The Grand Campaign defines everyone's economic levels in the scenario, and when they change. The rules about changing economic levels are there for general purposes, and for situations where you are designing your own campaign. But in the main Grand Campaign scenario, anything that happens before a particular empire enters the war is strictly defined.

>>Q2) Are the Hydrans then at a wartime economy where they receive all 74 points or do they only receive 50% of it?>>

During turns 1 and 2, the Hydrans as technically at a wartime economy (so they hit exhaustion after T15, like the Kzinti, Lyrans, and Klingons), but players do not control their economy. They have a fixed pre-war build schedule, and they just get those ships. On T3, the Hydrans get their full economy and the Hydran player has full control of their build schedule.

>>Q3) If the Grand Campaign is being played,does 652 then override any of the individual scenario economic rules such as 601.162? >>

No. (652) The Free Campaign is a set of rules for just that, playing a free campaign. Which requires the players to invent all sorts of rules to make things work out. If playing the basic Grand Campaign (or any of the scenarios that make up a part of that), use the rules in that scenario for economic levels and fleet release, etc.

>>Q4) In the Grand Campaign, using the 652 economic ruleset, are conversions allowed for those empires at peace?>>

No. Not unless the scenario rules indicate they can. Generally speaking, before an empire enters the war, they only build set pre war construction, and can't modify that or convert things. They basically just get the ships that are listed on their OB as PWC (Pre War Construction), and that is all. There are some corner case situations where players can control what a given empire does with its money before they enter the war (Tholians sort of, some times the Feds are at "limited war", so they are partially in the war with limits, but you get to control their economy), but generally speaking, before an empire enters the war, you do not control what hey do.

During T1 of the Grand Campaign, players control the Lyrans, the Klingons (who are at war, but can't leave Klingon space), and the Kzinti. Players gain control of the Hydrans on T3. The Feds enter the war one way or the other on T7 (either by being attacked on T7, or going to limited war on T7 if the Coalition does not attack them). Etc.

There are some "balance options" (i.e. optional rules that you can use to give one side or the other advantage or disadvantage) that gives you the ability to convert/add/cancel some PWC. But this is a specific situation related to the balance option, and not a general rule.

By Douglas Lampert (Dlampert) on Thursday, August 01, 2019 - 11:38 am: Edit

Note that the explanation for the Hydrans and Romulans being at wartime economy but getting only a very limited PWC schedule prior to their entry is that they are doing something very expensive and not represented in the game.

The Hydrans are busy converting their ships from Stinger-1 to Stinger-2 fighters on turns 1 and 2.

The Romulans are surveying their on-map areas and converting old ships to warp drive prior to their entry into the war (even on turn 10 they haven't finished surveying the on map provinces).

If you wanted to give them control of their economies, you'd have to decide how expensive those conversions are, how many are needed, and how quickly the Romulan on-map is being explored.

By Richard B. Eitzen (Rbeitzen) on Thursday, August 01, 2019 - 12:14 pm: Edit

Even if not at full wartime production schedule, the Romulans in particular do increase their fleet quite a bit on turns 1-10.. To refer to it as small is not accurate.

By Bill Powell (Bleedingbill) on Thursday, August 01, 2019 - 12:21 pm: Edit

Thanks for the prompt answers guys, it's greatly appreciated. I'm sure we'll have other questions as our game progresses.

By Rob Padilla (Zargan) on Thursday, August 01, 2019 - 12:39 pm: Edit

The Romulans also developed and built a brand new line of ships for the fleet too. All of that R&D isn't free either!

By Stewart Frazier (Frazikar2) on Thursday, August 01, 2019 - 05:58 pm: Edit

One small note for diplomatic income is that (540.22) is savable from turn to turn while (540.23) is not savable and must be spent on the turn it is generated.

If the Romulans send their 3 DIP out (Lyran, Klingon, LDR/Fed/Gorn) they would generated 5 EP of which 4 is savable and one which must be spent (possibly two if the Feds send their 3rd DIP to Romulus). There is the APT (for one) or PTR (for two) or small conversions.

The savable EPs (36 EPs over the initial 9 turns of DIP operations if not spent) can augment them.

By Richard B. Eitzen (Rbeitzen) on Thursday, August 01, 2019 - 08:27 pm: Edit

I don't see anything saying that any diplomatic EPs are unsavable during peacetime. I'd have to see something explicit before I went with that in a game.

Also, with three diplomatic teams if the Romulans do those missions you state, that's 3EPs for the Romulans, not 5, as far as I understand.

By Thomas Mathews (Turtle) on Thursday, August 01, 2019 - 08:48 pm: Edit

It is possible for the Romulans to get 6 EPs a turn from Diplomats. 2 with the Klingons, 2 with the Lyrans, 2 with the Federation through Turn 6. So 30 EPs. After that it depends on the Romulans having a SM node to the Klingons, and via the Klingons to the Lyrans.

By Richard B. Eitzen (Rbeitzen) on Thursday, August 01, 2019 - 10:03 pm: Edit

Yeah well, Stewart (I believe) said that three Romulan diplomats generate 5 EP, but if that's not what he meant than ignore that part of my post.

By Chuck Strong (Raider) on Thursday, August 01, 2019 - 11:35 pm: Edit

General question to players...

Of all the way to configure the Lyran JGP and Hydran LNH, what configurations do you use?

By Richard B. Eitzen (Rbeitzen) on Thursday, August 01, 2019 - 11:39 pm: Edit

*From Q&A:


Can a Tholian planet or the Tholian capital planet support a web without a base being colocated?

Rule (512.0) states "All Tholian bases and their capital planet are surrounded by fields of energy known as webs." This is a bit more vague than if it stated "All Tholian bases, and their capital planet, are surrounded by fields of energy known as webs." [my commas addition] (511.12) states " the original starbases are with the first major planet in each system" which implies colocation and a shared web, and (511.21) states "The Tholian capital is surrounded by web (512.0)." which implies the planet has its own web independent of a base and contradicts the colocation from (511.12).

Rule (512.5) states "If the base is destroyed, the web disappears." This implies an answer of "no" to my original question, and the following statement of "There is a partial exception in the case of armed web tenders‡ (539.4)." is a function of AWTs (and their larger brethren I assume) and implies that without a web tender the web would dissolve around a planet without a base. Also, there are no conditions for forcing the dissolving of a web from around a Tholian planet without a base or web tender.

Rule (326.2) in Minor Empires twice states "At the conclusion of any battle round over a Tholian base OR planet ..." (my capitalization of "OR") which implies a Tholian planet can support its own web without a base or web tender present.

By Ryan Opel (Ryan) on Thursday, August 01, 2019 - 11:53 pm: Edit

The LNH as a standard warship until I can send out to survey as a LNH-Q.

By Richard B. Eitzen (Rbeitzen) on Friday, August 02, 2019 - 12:06 am: Edit

The LNH makes a dandy 13 compot carrier and you don't have to pay double for 3 of the fighter factors. Nearly the offense of the CV but a lot cheaper. Oversized squadron too and you can build it at the old colonies and use up the FFF there. I build the two allowed. I generally avoid paying for any carriers prior to getting these (subsisting on the GRV, aux's, PVs and free PGVs until then).

I usually use the at start JGP as a troop ship so I can use it for extra compot as the bonus ship an MMG can allow. I never build more though, too expensive. Never as a carrier, no escorts early on and it pays 2EP per FCR factor that it has. I much rather use early FFF for Lyran LAVs.

(Ryan mentioned it as a survey ship, I'd rather use a free PG hull for that).

By Ryan Opel (Ryan) on Friday, August 02, 2019 - 12:16 am: Edit

The LNH takes the HDW-Q spot not a regular survey spot.

By Richard B. Eitzen (Rbeitzen) on Friday, August 02, 2019 - 12:52 am: Edit

Yeah but by Y175 you're probably getting into diminishing returns on finding new provinces (that are also experiencing exhaustion). The Hydrans will want more carriers, and the money you save making your two LNH-Vs will take additional turns later in the game before the extra survey capcity from a LNH-Q will make it up, possibly not even before you could make an HDW-Q instead.

A D6 a turn for 12 turns averages to 42, At Y175 it will take at least 30 points to get a province, so 30 / 3.5 is about 9 turns before you get that 1.5EP per turn (for 3 turns) so by Y171 you've gotten about 4.5 EP (effectively a little less because it puts off the 11th explored province) but if you bought a CAV instead of the LNH-V that costs you 8 EP more for the fighters, so you're actually behind in EPs in such a comparison. And of course you are down a ship during the Y175-181 interval when you have that LNH-Q rather than waiting for an HDW-Q (at which point you may not want one anyway).

So i will stay with 2 LNH-V I think.

By Richard B. Eitzen (Rbeitzen) on Friday, August 02, 2019 - 12:55 am: Edit

Man that reminds me of the discussions Mr. Calhoon and I used to have *all the time*. Endless discussion of FV vs D6Vs for early Klingon turns, for example.

Those were the days.

:-(