Maulers and PDU's - I would say its easier to explain them as follows : -

"You may direct kill up to 4 PDU's per round of combat.

Each PDU can be direct killed for 5 damage, but if a mauler is not used the normal 2:1 damage ratio is applied, so it would cost 20 damage to kill 2 PDU's without a mauler and for the same damage, 3 PDU's could be killed if a normal (10 point) mauler was used.

Fighters are treated as homeless fighters as per X."

By staring at a cost of 5 - 7 and 12 point maulers are more easily covered off

By Peter Bakija (Bakija) on Sunday, August 18, 2019 - 12:06 pm: Edit

Yeah, support here for the answer that is "When you maul PDUs, you can maul for the 10 points worth of the Mauler you have, and the rest of the PDUs die at 10 points each".

So assuming you have a mauler (10 point D6M, say), and you wish to kill PDUs:

1) You can target up to 4 per round.

2) They take 10 points of directed damage each to kill.

3) You can use the value of the mauler (assuming you do that much damage) to kill the PDUs for 5 points each instead of 10, but only up to the value of the mauler.

So assuming a 10 point mauler, the first PDU takes 5 damage to kill, the second PDU takes 5 damage to kill (you have now used up your maul ability), the third and fourth PDUs take 10 points to kill, for a total of 30 damage to kill 4PDU with a 10 point mauler (and then all the fighters die, probably leaving up to 24 minus points for the next round).

If you have a 7 point mauler, the first one will cost 5 to kill, the second will cost 2+(3x2)=8 to kill, the third and fourth still are 10 to kill, for a total of 33 to kill all 4PDUs.

By Jason E. Schaff (Jschaff297061) on Sunday, August 18, 2019 - 02:14 pm: Edit

A method of calculation that will work in many circumstance (including here) is to calculate how many damage points would be necessary to effect the kill without a mauler and then subtract the value of the mauler from that total.
so:
4xPDU at 10 points each is 40 points of damage to direct kill.
With a 10-point mauler 40-10 = 30
With a 7-point mauler 40-7 = 33

***FEDS CONFIRMS THE ABOVE.***

NOTE: This method of calculation does not work with carrier escorts or in situations where the total actual (unmodified) damage suffered by the enemy is less than the value of the mauler.

By Rob Padilla (Zargan) on Monday, August 19, 2019 - 12:49 pm: Edit

---

Quote:

When retreating, I attempted to use 6IFF in the pursued force. It didn't cause any issues, but Richard noted that it may not be legal to do so, as the hex I was retreating into was not the one from which the fighters came.

Can I use an IFF squadron in a pursuit battle where the retreat is not into the hex those fighters came from?

---

By Richard B. Eitzen (Rbeitzen) on Monday, August 19, 2019 - 01:33 pm: Edit

I don't think it's terribly clear that IFFs cannot be in a pursued line (if they're from a different hex) as they don't require any sort of support echelon to be used.

I did not say they could be used because they were based in a different hex than the retreat hex (to be clear).

Certainly the rule says uncrippled ships, but the rule on IFFs says they can be used in place of a ship in some cases so perhaps may be more specific. It's hard to say and I don't have a strong opinion one way or the other.

By Stewart Frazier (Frazikar2) on Monday, August 19, 2019 - 07:38 pm: Edit

Hmmm, no. The pursuing force is formed from within the battlehex (307.11) so an IFF from an adjacent hex is out.

By Rob Padilla (Zargan) on Monday, August 19, 2019 - 07:46 pm: Edit

I think it's good to remember that the Pursuit battle is a quickly put together effort, but a far cry from an organized battle force. Which is why you don't get a free scout, drone bombardment and so on.

By Bill Powell (Bleedingbill) on Thursday, August 22, 2019 - 08:41 pm: Edit

Hello there. I have a question concerning Auxiliary
Carriers. Section 549.23 out of Fighter Operations State that Auxiliaries can use reaction movement, but for only one hex. Any attrition units carried could react separately. Does that mean that the Auxiliary Carrier could react one hex, and then the fighters that the Auxiliaries are carrying then react an additional one hex? If so wouldn't that give the Auxiliary Carriers the ability to react out to two hexes, since it's the fighters that are the aux carriers striking force?

By John Christiansen (Roscoehatfield) on Thursday, August 22, 2019 - 10:43 pm: Edit

Bill Powell, you need to read the referred rules, too.

The last sentence of 549.23 states "Any attrition units carried could react separately (501.81)."

(501.81) states "(501.81) REACTION: Fighters can move in Reaction Movement independently of their base or carrier; see (205.7). Fighters cannot move independently of their carriers except by (205.7) or by (319.0) in Fighter Operations."

(205.7) states "(205.70) INDEPENDENCE: Fighters and PFs can react independently of their carriers and tenders (including bases but not PDUs). Reaction Movement is the only way that fighters/PFs can leave the hex of their base/carrier/tender. However, see (319.21)‡.


(319.0) states "(319.0) OFFENSIVE FIGHTER-PF STRIKES
Fighters on many types of ships and bases can be used to conduct offensive strikes into adjacent hexes. This is done during the Operational Movement Phase. It will create battle hexes and may have an effect on pinning. —Chuck Strong"

It seems clear to me that you are correct that the Aux CV could react one hex, and them its fighters could react one hex farther. The Aux CV does not react two hexes, and would not be in any battle force in the second hex, but its fighters could participate in battle in the second hex, and assuming they were not destroyed in the first combat round, could participate over several rounds of combat. The Aux CV would not be subject to any damage as it is not in the same hex as the battle.

That's just my interpretation.

By Richard B. Eitzen (Rbeitzen) on Friday, August 23, 2019 - 12:11 am: Edit

It would also take two reaction provocations for it to first react one hex and then (not to the same provocation) react fighters to reach a second hex. I think. Maybe it could do both if the target stopped.

By Bill Powell (Bleedingbill) on Friday, August 23, 2019 - 01:49 am: Edit

Thanks for your response guys. I see now how the Aux Carriers can react 1 hex, and then the fighters would react 1 hex to a different enemy movement. I guess that I was having a brain cramp. Thanks again.

By John Christiansen (Roscoehatfield) on Friday, August 23, 2019 - 01:40 pm: Edit

Richard, you're correct, essentially.

(205.32) TWO HEXES: A ship with an Extended Reaction Zone has the advantage of being able to move two hexes during Reaction Movement. These are moved at separate times (after each hex of enemy movement). If the approaching ship moved into the Outer Reaction Zone on the sixth pulse, the reacting ships can move two hexes to intercept it. The scout is not required to move with the reacting ship; a base, of course, is not capable of doing so.

Reading this, however, may disqualify the Aux CV from getting it's fighters into the fight if the approaching ship stops. "If the approaching ship moved into the Outer Reaction Zone on the sixth pulse, the reacting "ships" can move two hexes to intercept it." The Aux CV can only react one hex, and fighters are not ships.

Reading (205.32) and (205.37) makes me wonder if an Aux CV could react to a sixth movement pulse at all if that otherwise qualifying sixth pulse were two hexes away. There's no chance of interception due to the Aux CV's reaction range.

By Richard B. Eitzen (Rbeitzen) on Friday, August 23, 2019 - 01:53 pm: Edit

Stopping when movement remains is itself a reaction provocation.

If you stop all movement, that permits reacting units to do two reactions to reach you if in range, without the need for the stopped unit to expend a movement pulse to enable the second hex of reaction.

By John Christiansen (Roscoehatfield) on Friday, August 23, 2019 - 10:02 pm: Edit

Richard, that's (203.64) SKIPS. If the Aux CV reacted its one hex toward an enemy force which then skips a movement pulse, the fighters could react into the enemy's hex.

I'm still not sure about the enemy's ending movement two hexes away without skipping movement. The Aux CV has no chance of interception due to reaction range, and the fighters don't have any provocation to react. I'm not sure the Aux CV could react at all, although I haven't found a rule forbidding it.

By Richard B. Eitzen (Rbeitzen) on Friday, August 23, 2019 - 11:38 pm: Edit

The actual act of stopping allows all reactions to complete, that much is certainly clear, but whether you could react the carrier and then fighters to a stop is less clear, though I would not be surprised if a Q&A ruling said you could.

By John Christiansen (Roscoehatfield) on Saturday, August 24, 2019 - 06:56 am: Edit

We agree on everything, including that a Q&A ruling is needed for the Auv CV + fighters question.

As it's not my game being played, I don't have standing to ask.

By Richard B. Eitzen (Rbeitzen) on Saturday, August 24, 2019 - 09:40 am: Edit

You don't need 'standing' to ask a question in Q&A.

By John Christiansen (Roscoehatfield) on Sunday, August 25, 2019 - 10:36 pm: Edit

Perhaps not, but I prefer to limit my questions to those which are useful to me. The less I ask, the more time that can be devoted to answering questions affecting ongoing games or working on products.

By Richard B. Eitzen (Rbeitzen) on Sunday, August 25, 2019 - 11:45 pm: Edit

I prefer to have gaps in the rules closed myself, if I think of one that I think is important.

YMMV.

By John Christiansen (Roscoehatfield) on Monday, August 26, 2019 - 08:40 pm: Edit

I get that and the subject we've been discussing counts.

I can see someone else asking questions just for the entertainment of having someone reply.

By Peter Bakija (Bakija) on Tuesday, August 27, 2019 - 12:14 pm: Edit

No one here is asking questions just for the entertainment of having someone reply. This is likely the result of the demographics of who is interested in this subject, the amount of traffic on the board, and the specificity of the subject.

People who ask questions about F+E in the F+E forum? They are interested in discovering the answer to a specific question, either 'cause it has come up in a game they are playing, or as it is a (likely) perplexing situation they have come upon. Sometimes people ask rules questions 'cause they are trying to figure out how to play the game, and have a laundry list of things that aren't super clear to them.

By Chuck Strong (Raider) on Tuesday, August 27, 2019 - 06:07 pm: Edit

The F&E Q&A staff always welcome questions, but we simply ask that prior to asking a question that one does a little research to see if there is an existing ruling.

FEDS

By Mike Curtis (Fear) on Thursday, August 29, 2019 - 01:41 pm: Edit

Or, if it is already spelled out in the rules.

By Bill Powell (Bleedingbill) on Thursday, August 29, 2019 - 02:31 pm: Edit

Hello there. I have a question concerning SAFs Section 520.5 from Combined Operations says that if enemy forces enter a hex containing an SAF the SAF is treated in the same manner as a Convoy. Section 414.5 from the main rules says that convoys function in combat as per(302.21). Section 302.211 says that, convoys are treated as bases for purposes of (302.2). The guys that I'm playing against believe this to mean that any SAFs are to be deployed with the Battle Force in any battle. As an example, I will be attacking the Hydran Capital with all of my Coalition fleets in range. Included in these fleets will be several SAFs as well as Auxiliary troop ships. I will offer an approach battle and the Hydran player will except. His goal is to direct damage my SAF's, which will have to be with my battle force and not count against my Command point limits. Which means that the Hydran player will get three chances to direct kill a SAF if I have to fight three rounds of combat in the approach battle. So my question is do I, as the attacker, have to deploy all of my Special Attack Forces when fighting an approach battle, and If I do have to deploy my SAFs along with my Battle Force then why don't I have to deploy them in actual Capital assault as well? I understand that only one SAF can be used in each round in an assault. I'm just not sure why I should have to deploy my SAFs in an approach battle when I'm the attacker.

By Chuck Strong (Raider) on Thursday, August 29, 2019 - 03:48 pm: Edit

Bill:

Per rule:

---

Quote:

(520.5) USE IN COMBAT (OTHER): If enemy forces enter a hex containing an SAF, the SAF is treated in the same manner as a convoy (but it can be crippled). It retreats as a slow unit (302.742). It has a defense factor of 6 (3 when crippled) and no offensive capability against ships, fighters, or PFs. It can use the formation bonus. SAFs can be escorted (max 2 escorts) in this case but not when making an assault.

---