Archive through October 06, 2019
Star Fleet Universe Discussion Board: Federation & Empire: F&E COMPUTER PROJECTS:
F&E Cyberboard Development:
Archive through October 06, 2019
Thank you.
Liquid. Hot. Magma.
Thanks for your work on this!
You the man Lar!
Thank you!!!
Here's a little conversation between us and Rob over in our game. Something for you to consider in the update.
Quote:By Ted Fay (Catwhoeatsphoto) on Monday, September 09, 2019 - 10:53 am: Edit
If there's room, it would be nice to have several markers under a "moving" tab.
Example:
Moving 1
Moving 2
Moving 3
Moving 4
Moving 5
Moving 6
Moving 7
Move Completed
Not Moving Yet
You need 7 because theoretically a Fed Ex can move 8. X and fast ships can move 7, so you need 6 as well. When you're done moving you lay down "Move Completed".
The "Not Moving Yet" can be useful because sometimes you counter-sort in a hex and you want to make it clear to the opponent that you are not actually moving those counters yet.
By Rob Padilla (Zargan) on Monday, September 09, 2019 - 02:19 pm: Edit
Ted, what's wrong with the existing "Moved" marker for noting that things have indeed Moved. If we have that and Moving, I think all bases are covered.
I only ask for the one marker because I know the gamebox is at critical mass as far as how many different counters/markers can be in it. Adding 9 more is probably a deal breaker, unless Lar was able to pair down the existing ones a lot. Which I kinda doubt, as there were not a lot of un-necessary markers/counters to begin with and we keep adding more.
You could do what you are looking for with the existing Moved marker, and the big number 1 through 7 markers, just need to add the Moving marker 
1 versus 9 is better
The only thing I'll add is that it would be nice to have any "movement" related markers under their own separate heading to make them easier to find.
I went through the fleet trays and markers and I came up with a list of things that *might* be considered for deletion in order to pare down the number of markers/counters/drop-downs, etc. in order to save space in the game box. I know it's near critical mass.
Please feel free to ignore any of these. These suggestions are based on *my* play - and I know full well there are others out there who use CB for EB and other types of F&E games. So, again, accept or reject at leisure. I did not mention stuff that I know for sure other peoples use.
Here's the list.
Markers
1) The entire "blank bases" menu can be deleted and the markers therein.
2) The entire "Monsters" menu can be deleted and the markers therein.
3) The entire "capitals" menu can be deleted and the markers therein.
4) The entire "Map: Hexes" menu can be deleted and the markers therein.
5) Most of the planet markers in the "Map: Planets" menu can be deleted. Maybe keep just 3 majors and 3 minors. Don't need that much variety.
6) The entire "Orion Clans" menu can be deleted and the markers therein.
7) The entire "Support: Generic Fleets" menu can be deleted and the markers therein.
Fleet Trays/Counters
1) All Empires: There are WAY more battleship counters than could ever be used in a realistic game. I would reduce every race's counters to just 2-3 BB variations of each type. The Klingons should have 4. Should save a lot of counters.
2) All Empires: There are too many DN-type counters. I have never even come close to running out of DN counters. You could probably cut the number of DN counters in half for each type, and still likely have enough. You could probably reduce the number of DNE counters by 2/3.
3) All Empires: There are too many BCH-type counters. I have never even come close to running out of DN counters. You could probably cut the number of DN counters in half for each type, and still likely have enough.
4) All Empires Except Romulan: Too many CA-type counters. While there are plenty of CAs, I've noticed most don't get used. Suggest you reduce the number of CAs by 1/3 for each race but Roms (who have so many different kinds).
5) Federation DD and CL: The Federation seldom buys more CLs and DDs. You could reduce the number of CLs and DDs by half and still have plenty.
6) Federation DHDs. Weird ship, hardly ever used. Retain maybe 10 and dump the rest.
7) Hydran: You could probably reduce the number of NCAs by half per type. Hydrans generally just can't build that many.
8) Hydran PG Types: Same thing. Hydrans generally only build their free ones (and most of those are of the CV variety). You probably could reduce this by half or more.
9) Klingon D7/D6. Most of the time Klingons do not build generic D7 and D6, they build the variants. I would not reduce the number of variants, but you could probably reduce the total number of D7 and D6 counters by 1/2 to 2/3 and still have plenty.
10) Lyran CA. Same deal as the D7/D6.
11) Orions are seldom, if ever, used. You could probably reduce all Orion counters by half or more, particularly their BBs.
12) Rom SHRs. They just can't build that many. Reduce to 5 in the tray and then save yourself the tray by combining them with the Condors.
13) Roms just can't buy that many DMH or MGH DNs. Reduce these by 2/3.
14) Rom FHs almost always get turned into something else. Reduce number of FH counters by half and you'll still have plenty.
15) Consolidate all Romulan BBs into a single tray, saving you two trays, and reduce the number of BBs.
16) You can reduce the number of KRCs by at least half.
17) Reduce the number of QEs by 2/3 or more.
18) WEs are generally not build, and are replaced/converted. Can reduce the number of generic WEs by half. Reduce the number of FEs, PEs, and BEVs by 2/3.
19) Tholians just aren't that much of a power, even under the best case of general war games. You could probably reduce most of their fleet trays by 1/2 and not lose anything.
20) Kzinti generally don't build more CL and DD, but they do use their variants. Can probably cut down on the number of generic CL and DD counters by half and not lose anything.
Again, take any of these recommendations, or ignore them. They're based on only my personal play experience with the box and what I know for sure some other players use.
Maybe you can open up some space for other stuff.
Thanks,
-T
Ted,
The majority of the markers have to remain. First they do not count against the counter limit itself. Second they are used to create maps used in F&E itself and in EB games. Some of the blank ship markers are used to create new counters depending on the ship hull needed.
Counters:
These are being reviewed, and in some cases some counters have already had their numbers reduced.
Some high volume counts have to remain for EB games and other scenarios. Remember, I did a count of the Federation DWAs for the ISC War Pacification Scenario and came up short of what was needed for the initial setup. I have not done an analysis of the Fed counters needed for 6ES from Captain's Log #53.
Thomas, sure. I understand. As I stated they were suggestions based purely on my limited experience and should be dropped if better.
The Battle Force Charts will have a new addition. Along side the places for plus and minus points, there will be a place for each side's chosen BIR.
It will also be very nice to have an "interned" marker. Happens every so often.
Also a "neutral" marker. Nice to have when the Orion province declares neutrality.
Remember, you can always attach a note of text to any piece. I do this alot, for example SE counts on fleet counters. It is nice if you want to note some piece of information, but don't want it visible most of the time covering up other detail. It saves going into the marker toolbar and scrolling through all the markers.
I do, but notes cannot be visibly seen without scrolling over the counter/marker. Sometimes that's what I want.
One other thing, which you might have already done.
The markers need a bit more organization. For example, the "moved" and "moving" are not in the same marker trays. Maybe have a marker tray that says "movement markers" and put all of the movement-related markers into the one tray.
Plus overall organizational check. For historical reasons some markers got placed in different areas, but it would be better if duplicates removed and markers placed in easy-to-find drop down menus.
THANK YOU FOR ALL YOUR WORK ON THIS PROJECT! I would not play F&E without it!!!!
I eagerly look forward to the next game box.
Moved and Moving are in the same marker tray. They are also grouped together for the new working game box.
This is all great discussion. How the CB files are used by players is exactly how it has transitioned over the years.
The size limitations is an odd thing and only related to the number of counters (not markers as far as I have experienced)
(Markers are only single sided and cannot be moved into fleet trays...yes I have created some back sides to markers but players would have to replace the front with the back. It’s a pain)
Movement marker tray
React 1 and React 2 is a good suggestion and is definitive.
Move # 1-7 are as well.
Thanks for the counter limit suggestions. The numbers soared when EB came on and players needed large numbers of the cheaper base hulls produced vs how production schedules worked. (The Gorn DD example is what comes to mind...it becomes like PF level expendability).
Turtle has made a lot of suggestions here too, I have added the counters introduced by products along the way and will need to fit them in. Whole new groups (like Carnivons etc) will squeeze down the numbers a bit here and there.
As my eyes get older I find myself wanting to make things larger or simply more clear and appealing to the eye.
Lar, I'm taking a hard look at Ted's list above and am in the middle of making some recommendations for counter counts based on it. The BB's we cut earlier, so no problem with them. I've got the DNE's cut to a suggested number in the email. Working on others.
Glad some of my suggestions were useful.
Speaking of older eyes.... The Romulans with their black on red are sometimes hard to read for weaker eyes.
It might be WAY too much work, but maybe it's easy as changing a color definition - but it would be better to use a lighter shade of red for the Rom counters. Heck, I wouldn't object to pink.
That way, the black on red will be easier for poor old eyes to resolve!
Duplicate deleted by author.
A rough estimate says we picked up somewhere between 200 and 300 counters based on my recommendations for counter counts after looking at Ted's suggestions.
No Ted, you aren't getting all of them cut or cut as much as you want. In a couple of cases, the number actually increased because of the need for them in certain scenarios aka Eye of the Storm (6ES.0) and Driving Winds (625.0).
Those counters that we picked up are going to be used for making sure we have enough for things like E2 and E3 SWACs, Cloack Decoys of both SC2 and SC3 hulls and other new units like those from CL#53.
As I said, my suggestions were based on my personal play only, and should be taken, modified, or dropped as needed.
I'm just glad this is getting done and I could contribute in a very small way.
I can take a look at the dark red and some other options
Btw I added the move tray and all the markers you asked for today
react 1&2
move 1-7
I also dropped a text on the D with the R inside it as that’s supposed to be a Raid disruption to a province
YAY! =)
I found a red that’s muted that might be slightly easier .
I sent the file to Turtle (in it’s currently unfinished state) for further review
In the version I am using, some ships and fleet markers have permanent text you can't get rid of. I wish you could. For example, Fed 9th fleet, if you erase its text, it will still have a text of "9th fleet". I can note other examples as I come across them, which is pretty often.
Verybadcat2: Please do make some note on this so I may verify.
Looking into the current working version none of the FED fleet counters have predetermined/permanent text text.
While the Text can be set in the gamebox, I suspect what you are seeing on the 9th fleet is because the text was set up in the scenario you are playing.
It should be able to be changed. The only thing I would suggest you check is if the text (when added) the checkbox was selected to add the text to both side of the counter.