Archive through November 19, 2019
Star Fleet Universe Discussion Board: Federation & Empire: F&E INPUT:
F&E Reports from the Front:
Inactive Scenarios:
Raiders of the Lost Dilithium!:
Archive through November 19, 2019
Deleted by author - duplicate
If there's room, it would be nice to have several markers under a "moving" tab.
Example:
Moving 1
Moving 2
Moving 3
Moving 4
Moving 5
Moving 6
Moving 7
Move Completed
Not Moving Yet
You need 7 because theoretically a Fed Ex can move 8. X and fast ships can move 7, so you need 6 as well. When you're done moving you lay down "Move Completed".
The "Not Moving Yet" can be useful because sometimes you counter-sort in a hex and you want to make it clear to the opponent that you are not actually moving those counters yet.
At the risk of cluttering your topic, I use rotation for that. As in, ship/fleet counters are rotated when done moving (although a rotation is also used for newly repaired, and for ships that have been involved in combat...). The mice thing about counter rotation is that you can select all and hit ctrl-shft-z or something like that and reset them all at end of turn.
I also use rotation. But I also use rotation for various other indicators, so, for me, it would be nice to have the moving markers.
Ted, what's wrong with the existing "Moved" marker for noting that things have indeed Moved. If we have that and Moving, I think all bases are covered.
I only ask for the one marker because I know the gamebox is at critical mass as far as how many different counters/markers can be in it. Adding 9 more is probably a deal breaker, unless Lar was able to pair down the existing ones a lot. Which I kinda doubt, as there were not a lot of un-necessary markers/counters to begin with and we keep adding more.
You could do what you are looking for with the existing Moved marker, and the big number 1 through 7 markers, just need to add the Moving marker 
1 versus 9 is better
Peter, sorry for the non-game related reply.
The new working copy of the Cyberboard gamebox has Moved, Moving, Reacted, and Reacting Markers.
Deleted by Author. Duplicate post.
Thomas,
Reacted and Reacting? I don't see the point of the Reacting marker. I'm guessing it's to cover extended reaction, but maybe just use Reacted-1 and Reacted-2 markers instead? Let's you know what reacted 1 hex or two.
Or maybe "Reacted" and "Ext. Reacted"? I can see a need to distinguish between the two since a ship that use extended reaction can react again with normal reaction.
>>Peter, sorry for the non-game related reply. >>
Heh. Wrong game :-)
Peter Bakija, thread bouncer.
The reacting marker is for those units who used the extended reaction, but have their normal reaction remaining.
They were what I asked Lar to put in the markers when I thought of it.
Right. But "Reacting" implies it's still moving, which is not really the case. Each reaction is separate from the other, and a complete movement in and of itself.
But I get it.
It might be better to replace that with "Reacted 1" and "Reaction Completed". That would be clear and unambiguous.
AT7 Econ Phase:
Kzinti Econ:
Starting EPs: -4.5
Income Generated: 37
Total: 32.5
Ship Builds: 7 EP (FKE,FFK)
Repairs: 4 EP (BC,FFK,FF)
Other Production: 15 EP (PT,POL, Minor CF SY w/ENG, Major SY)
Conversions: 5 EP and 6 FFF
BC to CVS
Remaining EPs: 1.5 and 0 FFF
Hydran Econ:
Starting EPs: 4.875
Income Generated: 46.4
Total: 51.275
Ship Builds: 42 EP and 5.5 FFF (DE,AH,TG,2xHR,LTT)
Repairs: 4.5 EP (2xSAR,LN,AH)
Other Production: 4 EP (PGB to 2xPDU,PT,POL, Major CF (ENG))
Conversions: 0 EP
Remaining EPs: 0.775 and 4.5 FFF
Federation Econ:
Starting EPs: 16.25
Income Generated: 157.75
Total: 174
Ship Builds: 51 EP (DNL, TG, 2xNCL, NCD, 3xFFE)
Ship Activations: 32 EP (2xCLV, GSC, DD, 3xCL, 3xFF)
Other Production: 38 EP (Command Point, 2xPOL, FLG, POV, 2xConvoy, 8xAPT, 2xPT, MMG, 2xSWAC, SP)
Conversions: 16 EP and 6 FFF
3xCA to CC
CA to CVS
CL to CLS
2xCL to ECL
DD to DE
FF to FFE
Remaining EPs: 37 and 2 FFF
I forgot to report on C7.
My eco sheets are here if you want to review - nothing that surprising. I started a second B10 and rolled a "1", of course.
Klingon: https://www.dropbox.com/s/f7nrndv6ia0mc6o/Coalition_Klingon.xlsx?dl=0
Lyran: https://www.dropbox.com/s/htp330y62yd2c8f/Coalition_Lyran.xlsx?dl=0
Current Map - as of Combat of Alliance Turn 7: This is a Cyberboard game file. You will need Cyberboard and the game box to view this file: https://www.dropbox.com/s/dmw0frk29eznves/Raiders_Lost_Dilithium2.gam?dl=0
Short summary of CT7:
I decided to attack the Federation, even though I knew it would be relatively anemic. The reason was because I *knew* I could get 4th fleet and 7th fleet starbases "for a song", relatively speaking, just because the Federation could not reinforce them.
I also decided to attack and destroy the Kzinti Marquis starbase. As it was the only real strong point left to the Kzinti, I knew it would *never* be guarded by less than the bulk of the Zin navy. So, I decided to take my medicine and bring it down, using SIDS if necessary.
In the HTO, I could take SB 215. I have absolute numerical superiority, and then some, and SB 215 would remain a pain in my side. I knew it would remain "relatively" lightly defended so long as I was threatening the Hydran capital.
So, that's what I did. I destroyed 4 Alliance starbases on CT7 in fierce and ugly fighting: Hydran SB 215, Marquis SB 1704, 4th Fleet SB in 2204, and 7th fleet SB in 2915.
I also attacked planet 1802 and 2715, BATS 2008, 2010, 2013, 2615, 2816, and 3016. I succeeded at all targets, but 2715 where the 3rd fleet Fed reserve came and settled the hash of the Klingon attackers.
So, a very active turn.
With all ships dedicated to fighting SBs, BATS, and planets, I could only send a pittance to 1401. So, Rob saved it back with a reserve fleet. If he keeps it on A8, he'll start getting EPs for the devastated capital planets again.
Losses were significant, particularly at Marquis SB in 1704 where I faced the bulk of the Zin navy. After a close analysis I decided he was likely to outlast my forces. Thus, reluctantly, I decided to SIDS the SB. Fortunately, my good fortune with G attacks got me 1 or 2 SIDS, so the process was over after just 7 or 8 rounds (after he used RCR to repair a SIDS). After the SB was crippled, he decided to leave.
A big reasons why he did not stay longer (he still had fighters) was because he captured a C8 he had directed upon!!!! (And that was AFTER I had self killed a F5 to reduce the odds he would capture the C8 - but he got it!) He wanted to be absolutely sure that I could not re-capture it in pursuit, so he left when the SB was crippled. That saved me some damage.
No doubt, the C8 will be returning outfitted with Kzinti technology!!!!
Overall, I sustained many cripples. I will have a cripple backlog for at least 1-2 additional turns after C8 - depending on available EPs. However, killing 4 starbases in one turn is a pretty big effort, and if you do it you are going to eat a lot of damage unless the opponent makes a big mistake - which Rob did not do.
That being said I maintained enough force that I can manage a significant threat on CT8, so he was not able to *safely* inflict a lot of damage on me (he declined to take SB 1509 even though he could have done so, due to a risk of being cut off and due to damage he would take).
Mostly on A7 he's messing with my supply points, and succeeded with crippling a supply tug with an E&W mission and retaking planet 1802. He's also going to take newly converted Klingon planet 2214, and there's a decent chance he will destroy Klingon BATS 2215 (though I sent a reserve there, so he may or may not choose to fight). In the HTO, he's largely doing the same: attacking with superior forces picketers in order to kill a few Coalition ships and make supply through Lyran space a bit harder. However, with the numerical superiority in the HTO he couldn't do much more than that.
Combat still needs to be completed for A7. CT8 will be coming up in the next week or so.
Yeah capturing the C8 changed the end of the 1704 fight for me. I was willing to fight over the crippled SB, knowing he could direct it dead, as my cripples were very very light due to Ted inflicting SIDS. But given the Kzinti Shipyard is down, I could not turn down a FREE Dreadnought, especially at the time the Kzinti need it most!
In the HTO, I am kinda hoping the Coalition decides at some point they need all of those ships elsewhere, but so far no luck with that. But then another part of me is very happy the Hydrans are keeping busy about twice their number of ship equivalents, means those ships are not beating down the Feds. And in all of those ships are 2 C8s, which I know he needs anywhere else, since I've killed two others.
Hmm. Seems that the Admiral Kang wasn't able to make it out,
4 starbases and not giving up a substantial amount of counter-play is pretty scary. 30000 foot view is it feels like you jump on targets of opportunity in open space, trying to work the old "fighters for cripples" schtick to aggravate his cripple backlog, more than trying to bring down bases.
not second-guessing you, rob (can't even look at the map!) just making conversation.
@Chris: The offensive effort will slow me down in the FTO, which is serious. It's going to take a turn or two extra past C8 to bring down the cripple backlog.
The payoff is, I hope, worth it. First, the price paid for those SB will be in the long run less than it would have been. Second, the Kzinti ability to operate further into Klingon space and to support the Feds will be hampered. Third, the Hydrans will have a harder time sustaining operations in Lyran space. Fourth, the Federation will not have anchor points (other than 3rd Fleet SB), making it easier to push in on C9 and C10.
At least, that is the theory.
Chris,
Yeah that is the main plan here, but also I am screwing up his supply situation and making him commit ships to theaters he'd rather not have as many ships in. The HTO for example is pretty much all Klingons and a few Lyrans, since the Lyran navy is not big enough to hold down both the Kzinti and the Hydrans. You may not realize it, but I have done my fair share of damage as well.
To date the Alliance has destroyed: SB 411, BATS 212, 413, 1507, 1707 and 1807, kept the Coaliton down to only holding two minor Kzinti planets in the ZTO, and only the Major at 718 in the HTO. The Coalition is not exactly flush with cash as I have been keeping his income down from captured provinces in both the ZTO and HTO, though I expect that will swing a bit in his favor as the FTO has a LOT of provinces to take over.
I am happy to do a slug-fest, if it's worth it. I almost did that for 1509, but at the end of the day, taking down that SB doesn't really slow him down much, and I'd be stranding the entire Kzinti navy out of supply, allowing the Coalition to re-take 1401 and all the other planets for basically free. As it stands right now, I am pretty confident I can pin him out of 1401, unless Ted decided to leave the Feds alone to re-take it.
Brief Recap of AT7:
The Federation did not have a whole lot they could do, as the bulk of the 4th and 7th Fleets were crippled, leaving only 3rd Fleet elements and the remnants of the 4th that could operate.
In the FTO the Feds attacked only two targets, planet 2214 and BATS 2215. 2214 was captured but later abandoned during the Retrograde phase. The BATS still stands, as it was too even of a fight and not worth the damage. The Federation also took point on liberating Kzinti planet 1802, sending the 4th Fleet there to meet up with some Kzinti fighter squadrons and a FF.
In the HTO, the Hydrans made a pain of themselves, attacking province garrisons, as well as the small occupying force on planet 416. Things went well in the HTO, with 9 Coalition ships being destroyed, and the Hydrans only loosing an AH.
The ZTO was where the real fun was. The Kzinti attacked (and liberated) captured planets 1504 and 1506 and fought several pinning battles in open space. 2 Coalition ships were destroyed, and several were crippled during all of this. However a Kzinti CC and CL were direct killed, and the CL was captured. The Main Goal was accomplished here, screwing with Coalition supply lines. As of right now the Klingons have next to no supply into the North-Western Federation space, pretty much being limited to attacking the border BATS and the minor planet at 2106. Anything deeper than that is beyond supply range.
CT8 has begun.
Eco is here:
Klingon: https://www.dropbox.com/s/f7nrndv6ia0mc6o/Coalition_Klingon.xlsx?dl=0
Lyran: https://www.dropbox.com/s/htp330y62yd2c8f/Coalition_Lyran.xlsx?dl=0
The current Cyberboard Map file is here: https://www.dropbox.com/s/dmw0frk29eznves/Raiders_Lost_Dilithium2.gam?dl=0
Economics higlights:
Leary of extra economic exhaustion, despite a massive cripple backlog, both Klingons and Lyans pull way back on spending. Lyrans pay back 21 EPs, leaving national debt at 36. Klingons borrow just 1 EP to get an extra ship repaired, bringing national debt to 79.
Klingons forgo building a valuable C8 in favor of a F5. Terrible compot and command exchange, but the extra 11 EPs repaired a lot of ships, and right now I need SEQ or I will lose control of the map.
Klingons roll a "4" for the B10 Invincible, but roll a second "1" in a row for the B10 Inexorable.
Lyrans do not convert any ships this turn, in favor of Brining down national debt and building 7*APT for transport duty.
Raids are also now done. There are 10 normal raids, 9 of which succeed, disrupting 4 Federation, 2 Kzinti, and 3 Hydran provinces. The remaining raid (Lyran BC+PT) killed a lone Kzinti POL, despite the aid of a backup POL. The BC did not raid the province after killing the POLs (province 1202, which I occupy).
Do the WYN trade shuffle. Yay.
Operational movement now begins. ComCom delivery to the Lyrans. Yay!
Operational to pick up tomorrow - busy at work.
CT8 has concluded.
I was pretty conservative this turn, in part because I have such a big cripple backlog that I no longer have complete pin count dominance, especially in the FTO. Yeah, I know, bad thing for the Coalition.
In the HTO I attacked the "rear planets" but otherwise didn't do much. I pinned the capital forces, but we basically exchanged dir dam on a couple of ships (HR for something, I don't remember what) and that was it.
In the ZTO I managed to retake 1401. No EPs for you! However, I avoided the rear Marquis areas because Rob had so effectively take out my supply in that area during AT7. Unless I hold 1401 on AT8 (not guaranteed at all) I will not have supply in that area again on CT9. However, I needed to maintain control of my SB in 1202 and take 1401, so that is where the priority went. I also moved about 40 SEQ from the Federation front to the Kzinti to bolster my defenses, give me pin count superiority in the ZTO again, and prevent him from wreaking too much havoc with the Zin fleet.
In the FTO I took two planets: 2106 and 2705. I snagged like two BATS. However, reserves managed to save, like, 3 BATS because I messed up and allowed him to play "stupid reserve tricks" (TM) by leaving ships behind. He thought he would save 2106 this way, plus the BATS, but he underestimated my resolve. We both ended up crippling most of our fleets (not that big, but still) at 2106 in a nasty combat that saw about a dozen ships on each side, plus the PDUs. Eventually I outlasted him. That was the only really significant/hard-fought fight this turn.
I left the central FTO alone, where he has 46 SEQ on 3711 and 22 SEQ threatening deep Klingon targets from 2106 (these are the reserves he sent). He also has 17 SEQ of Kzinti (also reserves) at 1504 threatening Northern Klingon space.
Coalition reserves:
Powerful Lyran reserve in 1411 defending Klingon deep targets.
Very weak Lyran reserves (2 ships each) at 1202 and 1716 (where I have a Lyran MB).
Two powerful Klingon reserves at 1509 to defend that SB and Northern Klingon space.
One powerful and one moderate Klingon reserve at 2518 to defend 6 SAF there and southern Klingon space.
I'm pretty well defended for AT8, so it's *likely* (but not guaranteed) Rob will elect to force my reserves to stay rearward by simply not attacking deep Coalition targets and sticking to kicking me off of his planets and killing pickets. Also not good for me, but if I did not defend Klingon space this turn he could do A LOT of damage!
Commentary:
It is, of course, very bad to not press the Federation hard in the early turns of the GW. But, I screwed up. I also screwed up my tugs, because I didn't properly understand how "flexible" tugs work (it's not really as flexible as I thought) and that further hindered my plans.
So, IMHO, I am substantially behind in this game now. Also IMHO unless Rob makes a mistake later this game is now his to lose.
Nevertheless, I'm committed to playing it out and I have a strategy for proceeding forward.
Primary error: Not fully adjusting plans for this game after I had changed plans to go Zin first (originally I was going Hydran first, but seized an opportunity early in the game). What I *should* have done is realized I was out of position for CT7 and just accepted that I could not *seriously* attack the Feds on CT7. Sure, I got two SBs "on the cheap", but without pincount dominance in the theater what I really did was give the Feds several more turns of full production and eco, and that is very very very bad. In retrospect, I should have immediately switched to the HTO, taken them out, and then attacked the Feds on CT10 (which I have done in other games). They would be reinforced, but then I would have TWO capitals, and I would have been in a MUCH better position, deployment-wise.
But what is done, is done. Realize the mistakes, learn from them, and soldier on.
Oh, to be clear, I haven't made a *devastating* error. Rob is in no position to do something truly horrible - like take out a Coalition capital or multiple key Coalition SBs. However, I *know* how this game goes, and poor Coalition showing early in the GW nearly always ends up with the Alliance being a very strong position mid to late game, and possibly Romulus flying the flag of the Federation.
Anyway, I still have adjusted a to a new plan for victory in this game, and if Rob does end up winning it won't be for my lack of fighting!
I took a look at your game file. I actually kinda wonder about the decision to SIDS an SB that early in the game. A lot of pain for you and almost none for him.
That said, I'm not entirely sure I share your gloom. Looks like your crips will be mostly repaired on your next turn.
It will be interesting to watch this game as it will provide some clue as to just how strongly one should value SB.
Why do the Klingons still have so many mothballs? Do they start with more than in the basic game, or are they choosing not to activate all they can for some reason?
William,
Thank for your interest and commentary.
Agree I'm not out of it - but I am behind compared to where I had *planned* to be at this stage. The issue is not that I'm down and out, as you're right, those cripples will be repaired. The question is that I'm allowing the Federation too many EPs to build up early in the game. THAT is the problem. I'm basically foreseeing a butterfly effect down the road.
As for the Marquis SB, the real issue there is that it would always be heavily defended. To take it out with overwhelming numbers would mean sending too many ships north for my strategy, and I could not let it stand as it threatens so many Klingon deep space targets. So, yes, I paid a heavy price, but I *think* it was worth it. But as you said, we shall see.
As for your questions regarding mothballs, I just haven't taken the counters out of the mothball trays. I track mothballs on my eco sheet. I've come close to activating maximum mothballs every turn, and I usually pull them out of the D6/F5/E4/E3 trays. That's all.