SVC: I have no skin in the game as to this issue, but I will note that there is a good reason to do it during operational instead of just strategic movement. For example, you could move an admiral or MMG (PT, whatever) more than 6 hexes (and potentially many more) via chained pick-up and drop off from one theater to another so that the same admiral (or other personnel) participates in a battle on the same turn on the other side of the space controlled by the moving empire.

I've done it before in my games, and it did seem cheesy, but opponents have not objected in the past (though to be fair I don't do it often; I don't need to).

For what it's worth, IMHO it's worth adding a rule since, otherwise, the personnel appear to be moving at strategic movement speeds during operational movement. On the other hand, you could explain that way I suppose, so pick what you intended or think is good for the game.

By Alan De Salvio (Alandwork) on Monday, January 13, 2020 - 05:04 pm: Edit

Tug pods can currently teleport across the map - why not specific personnel?

By Paul Howard (Raven) on Monday, January 13, 2020 - 06:44 pm: Edit

Alan

Because although they can teleport, only 1 ship per turn can us it (but to be honest, I am not a fan of flexible tug missions with Pods - FRD/EP/MB I am happier with).

On picking up X - and moving it by Y, one good example is

A CC has a ADM on it - and gets pinned after moving 5 hexes by an Enemy Reaction, designed to keep the ADM out of one of the key battle hexes.

A DN then moves along and picks up the ADM and moves a further 5 hexes.

The ADM has op moved 11 hexes AND the Enemy's reason to react has partly been removed.

I don't think that is good playability - especially as the Coalition for such a long period can dictate the main ebbs and flow of the war - a successful reaction by the Alliance is part of the 'fun' - and reducing the effect of that isn't good for the game.

By Alan De Salvio (Alandwork) on Monday, January 13, 2020 - 07:11 pm: Edit

316 takes care of admirals very nicely (your example is not allowed by the rules).

By Chuck Strong (Raider) on Monday, January 13, 2020 - 11:42 pm: Edit

The tug pod shifting assignment is a valid point with dedicated staff officers working out the logistics.

By Steve Cole (Stevecole) on Monday, January 13, 2020 - 11:47 pm: Edit

Basically the tug pod was already almost there before you knew you needed it.

However, I am not saying I would oppose a move by the staff to change that, keep the tug pods on the map, and force you to op move them across the map.

=============

FEDS has no problem with the current pod transfer rules and has no problem with co-hex ships transferring personnel and equipment (Decoys/SWACS) before, during, or after movement; it just keeps things simple, otherwise we end up having to specifically define rules and exceptions and then track and record each individual piece.

By Richard Eitzen (Rbeitzen) on Tuesday, January 14, 2020 - 12:03 am: Edit

Hey now, let's not say anything hurtful. I like the tug pod rules just the way they are. :p

By Lawrence Bergen (Lar) on Wednesday, January 15, 2020 - 12:18 am: Edit

IF you search the word 'personnel' you will find that some of this has already been discussed in Q&A.

Reference dates are
5 August 2007
22-23 January 2008
March 2013 (mike parker)

The majority taking place in 2008,,,(somewhere prior to CL 37 as a historical milestone)
-Several rules and precedents are discussed
-A few inferences are made
-An official ruling offered (though maybe not what you want)
-And some funny banter about punishments thrown in for good measure

By Paul Howard (Raven) on Sunday, January 19, 2020 - 05:23 pm: Edit

This is a really silly question...

...but I can't find anything on it.

What sort of carrier is the Standard B10?

I assumed it was both a Single Ship Carrier and a Light Carrier (as it has 4 or less fighters)?

But the SIT and various printed rules just say refer to 436.0.....

...which doesn't give any indication.

Thanks

By Thomas Mathews (Turtle) on Sunday, January 19, 2020 - 06:02 pm: Edit

The B-10 is considered to be a single ship carrier unless it is a B10V (12 Fighter Factors) or B10S (6 Fighter Factors and PFs).

By Kevin Howard (Jarawara) on Sunday, January 19, 2020 - 06:19 pm: Edit

No Paul, you misunderstand. Lemme explain...

The B-10 is neither considered a carrier of any sense, nor a PFT (if applicable).

Instead, the 4 on the B-10 refers to the number of fully functional D-7 Battlecruisers it carries.

It's true value should be 20(32)

By John Christiansen (Roscoehatfield) on Sunday, January 19, 2020 - 06:47 pm: Edit

Paul, the SIT at the end of the 2010 rulebook, both digital and paper, has this in the notes section, "Base Hull (BB). See (436.0). Single-Ship Carrier."

(515.21) covers the B10A and B10S.

By Richard Eitzen (Rbeitzen) on Sunday, January 19, 2020 - 06:47 pm: Edit

It is a single ship carrier but if escorted it is treated as a light carrier, unless there are other rules specifying an exception to this (such as flagship escort groups later in the war).

It is not a hybrid ship (the only BB in F&E so far that is is the Hydran Monarch).

By Paul Howard (Raven) on Monday, January 20, 2020 - 02:28 am: Edit

Thoms, Kevin, John an Richard - thanks.

John - my printed 2010 (page 201) rules say "Base Hull (BB). See (436.0)" (the on line SIT I checked last night said the same).

Will not be the first time a different printed version existed!

By John Christiansen (Roscoehatfield) on Monday, January 20, 2020 - 09:18 am: Edit

Paul, doubtless there are different printed versions. My quote was a cut-and-paste and carries the weight of a printed rule if you needed it. I'm glad I could help by sharing.

By Chuck Strong (Raider) on Monday, January 20, 2020 - 04:03 pm: Edit

The current online SITS are authoritative and are the final word until ADB says they are not.

FEDS SENDS

By John Christiansen (Roscoehatfield) on Monday, January 20, 2020 - 05:34 pm: Edit

The current online Klingon SIT doesn't have the answer. Some of the SITS include the answer for the individual empire's BB while most do not. The question is still unanswered.

By Steve Cole (Stevecole) on Monday, January 20, 2020 - 06:18 pm: Edit

It is a single-ship carrier.

By Paul Howard (Raven) on Tuesday, January 21, 2020 - 02:22 am: Edit

Thanks everyone.

By Rob Padilla (Zargan) on Tuesday, January 21, 2020 - 09:07 am: Edit

If I am not mistaken, the B10 is a single ship carrier, but it cannot be escorted, it's ALWAYS a single ship carrier. At least that was the ruling way back in the day the last time I managed to build one of those bad boys. If you wanted to escort it, you need to make it a B10VV.

By Kevin Howard (Jarawara) on Tuesday, January 21, 2020 - 09:48 am: Edit

I am unaware of that ruling. I have often chosen a D5E/F5E combo to escort it (while a second B-10 is in formation).

By Rob Padilla (Zargan) on Tuesday, January 21, 2020 - 12:11 pm: Edit

Well, the cost justifys it for one. A B10 without fighters cost exactly the same as a B10 with fighters. With the exception of the fighters of course. So there is no carrier cost in the base hull that you get a discount for if you choose to make it without fighters.

There is also the rule itself 436.26: "Battleships do not count against the carrier limit; BBVs and SDSs (which are in an expansion) do count against the carrier limit."

And there is the threads in the 2004 Archives, which can be found here:

http://www.starfleetgames.com/discus/messages/37/19168.html?MondayDecember1720070336pm

By Peter Bakija (Bakija) on Tuesday, January 21, 2020 - 06:05 pm: Edit

(515.42) "Single Ship Carriers (which do not normally have escorts) can be in carrier groups."
(515.421) "If they are assigned escorts, they are assigned a number of escorts based on their category."

The B10 is explicitly a "Single Ship Carrier".

A "Single Ship Carrier" may (at your option) be assigned escorts or not. As the B10 has 4 fighter factors, it counts as a "light" carrier (515.23), and may have one or two escorts, if you decide to escort it (515.421), but you don't have to.

By Ryan Opel (Ryan) on Tuesday, January 21, 2020 - 06:10 pm: Edit

The B10 is probably not a carrier but a hybrid. Only the Fed BB is listed as a single ship carrier. The Hydran is listed as a hybrid carrier.

All could be escorted under the Flagship Escort Rules.

The carrier and space control variants of the ships are carriers and require escorts.

By Peter Bakija (Bakija) on Tuesday, January 21, 2020 - 07:16 pm: Edit

SVC wrote:
>>It is a single-ship carrier.>>