The E3 rule added in FO2016 add 9 extra ships in klingon Mothball. But those extra ships (all E3/E3A), with other 7 in east and west fleet, will have to be all eliminated at the start of turn 10, unless the klingon player is willing to pay 2.5 EP for each one he keeps or he has already lost before turn 10 (theoretically this ship will have to go to the police).
The extra pin count is juicy, but the extra 40EP cost on turn 10 might not be affordable for an heavily ADS indebted Klingon, so someone never unmothballs the E3 and give back some/all of the ones already on map.

By Ted Fay (Catwhoeatsphoto) on Tuesday, November 19, 2019 - 01:25 pm: Edit

@Stefano. Precisely correct. Personally, I plan on keeping them. It's pincount. No final decisions until turn 10 is upon me, though.

By Peter Bakija (Bakija) on Wednesday, November 20, 2019 - 09:18 am: Edit

Re: E3s

Yeah, in my current game, I gave all the E3's back on T10, mostly to avoid putting them on the map and dealing with them (I think I just simply never put any E3s on the map from the start of the game, never used them, never activated them, and on T10, just assumed it was all break even; I did get the free E4s and E4a's, however). I didn't want to deal with the hassle, and at the time, thought the expense to buy all the E3s was problematic.

In retrospect, as I spent the middle of the game overbuilding 3-6 E4s per turn from turns, like, 12-20, it turns out that I should have just sucked it up and paid for the E3s on T10 and come out significantly ahead, in terms of money for pincount.

Edit: Man. I went and looked. I was overbuilding 3E4's per turn as the Klingon as early as CT9, if not earlier.

Next time I'm the Klingons, if it is remotely possible to do so, I'll just buy all the E3s.

By Ted Fay (Catwhoeatsphoto) on Wednesday, November 20, 2019 - 10:25 am: Edit

@Peter. Exactly!

It's cheap pincount. E3s blow chunky liquid stool, but they will still pin a Hydran LB*!


*(Assuming 1-1 or if in a fleet with a CR9 command)

By Peter Bakija (Bakija) on Wednesday, November 20, 2019 - 11:27 am: Edit

That, and over 32 turns of game, the Klingons have probably lost upwards of 150+ E4s to "You attack my 4 ships with a bigger force that can't mathematically fail to kill something. You just kill an E4 and I run".

That the E3s are terrible [*] is likely completely irrelevant. Their compot number will probably never be used in a calculation if you use them cleverly. They will just be vaporized in the place of a bigger/more valuable ship.

[*] That E3s are 3 defense uncrippled and 2 defense crippled means that they are amazingly efficient at absorbing damage, costing .16EP per point of damage they absorb, as opposed to a standard, even defense CA/DD/FF, which cost .25EP per point of damage they absorb, but as you are never actually gonna have, like, a line of E3s to absorb large amounts of damage, it is also mostly irrelevant.

By Richard B. Eitzen (Rbeitzen) on Wednesday, November 20, 2019 - 02:18 pm: Edit

I've been a fan of getting all my E3s since they got added to the GW.

By Rob Padilla (Zargan) on Friday, November 22, 2019 - 03:19 pm: Edit

AT8 Econ Phase:

Kzinti Econ:
Starting EPs: 34.5
Income Generated: 38.6
Total: 73.1

Ship Builds: 7 EP (FKE,FFK)
Repairs: 26 EP (Z-C8,2xTGC,3xCVS,BCE,2xMEC,CM,FKE,2xFF,SF,FFG)
Other Production: 19 EP (PT,POL, PRD w/ENG, Major SY, Heal PT, support 12 Exp Ships)
Conversions: 6 EP
C8 to Z-C8
CM to MEC
FF to FKE

Remaining EPs: 15.1 and 0 FFF

Hydran Econ:
Starting EPs: 1.9
Income Generated: 45
Total: 46.9

Ship Builds: 41.5 EP and 6.5 FFF (RN,TR,3xHR,3xCU,3xHN,PGV(free))
Repairs: 5 EP (TG,2xCU,HNG)
Other Production: 0 EP (PT,POL, CW SY (ENG))
Conversions: 0 EP

Remaining EPs: 0.4 and 10 FFF

Federation Econ:
Starting EPs: -2
Income Generated: 201
Total: 199

Ship Builds: 69 EP and 15 FFF (CVA, ECL,2xDE,TG,3xNCL,2xFF,CFF)
Ship Activations: 8 EP (GSC, DD, 3xCL, 3xFF)
Repairs: 31.5 EP (CC,CA,CF,TG,8xFF,4xNCL,5xDD,2xFFE)
Other Production: 33 EP (Command Point, 2xPOL, FLG, POV, 2xPT, MMG, 2xSWAC. FF SY (Offmap w/ENG), 2 Colonies)
Conversions: 22 EP
2xDN to DN+
CA to GSC (CDR)
CF to CFS (CDR)
CL to ECL
FF to FCR
FF to FFE
NCL to NCD (CDR)

Remaining EPs: 25.5 and 2 FFF

By Rob Padilla (Zargan) on Monday, December 02, 2019 - 01:11 pm: Edit

AT8 Update.

Fighting still rages over Major Planet 718 in the HTO. As for the rest of known space:

The Kzinti have retaken 1401 (again). The fight for the hex was a one and done, and the Coalition did not feel it had the depth on the bench to slug it out.

Most of the rest of the action revolved around the FTO. BATS 1809 was attacked, planet 1910, and open space battles in hexes 2010, 1807, 1805, 1705. SB 1509 saw a modest Federation Fleet bearing down on it, which caused the reserve elements deployed there to mostly stay there.

At the end of the day, BATS 1809 was destroyed, as were the 2 FRDs stationed there, planet 1910 was captured and newly captured Planet 2106 is now cut off from supply for the start of CT9.

More updates to follow.

By Rob Padilla (Zargan) on Monday, December 02, 2019 - 03:35 pm: Edit

And the Battle for 718 has ended. The Hydrans emerged victorious, retaking the only Hydran soil still in Coalition hands! The cost was high, but it's always high when the Hydrans fight since no one ever just lets the damage fall on them!

Hydran Dead: LB, 3xHR, TR, DDS, 2xAH (DDS died in pursuit)
Coalition Dead: D6M, D6J, 2xD6 (D6J and D6s died in pursuit)
Coalition Crippled: D6V, D5V, 2xAD5, 3xF5E, F5L, F5, CC, 4xCW

By Ted Fay (Catwhoeatsphoto) on Monday, December 02, 2019 - 03:52 pm: Edit

What Rob neglected to mention is that every Hydran roll in that battle was 4 or above and every Coalition roll was 4 or below. The pursuit line was a 6/1 split in his favor, which was especially brutal.

So, combat dice were consistently against me in this battle.

And the dice almost always favor Rob in the HTO, for this whole game so far.

Oddly, in the ZTO, the dice tend to favor me the other way around.

It's weird.

So far, the dice are favoring Rob in the FTO too!

By Rob Padilla (Zargan) on Monday, December 02, 2019 - 08:39 pm: Edit

The FTO has felt more "even" to me personally. But anything feels better than the dice in the ZTO! I've done consistently worse there than you have in the HTO.

By Rob Padilla (Zargan) on Tuesday, December 03, 2019 - 03:46 pm: Edit

So AT8 has come and gone.

The Hydrans currently control all of their space West of the 06XX column. There are two Coalition province raiders in 415, but that's it. All of the Coalition units are 07XX and Eastward. The Hydrans are hunkered down in 617, with a good Reserve also set up there, and a smaller 8 ship reserve setup in the OC. The Hydrans also have 4 sets of FF squadrons around the back areas of their space to help hold open the supply lines to the OC.

In the ZTO the Coalition controls most of their space. 1401 was liberated this turn, but most likely will be recaptured by the Coalition as only three Kzinti FFs were left defending it. Planets 1001, 1202, 1105 and 1506 are in Coalition hands. 1105 and 1506 are Klingon held. The rest are devastated by Kzinti controlled. The bulk of the Kzinti Navy is currently parked over the last remaining BattleStation, 1902. A small squad is on planet 1802 and a lone POL guards 1502. Two Kzinti reserves are established, one big reserve at 1902 (which is also designated as Expeditionary), and a smaller Off-Map reserve that only reached 12 SE because of the 4 Aux CVs in it.

In the FTO, only a handful of Klingon ships are in the Northern areas, and all of those are around captured planet 2106. The presence of Kzinti and Federation FFs has those ships currently cut off from supply. No Klingon BATS remain that can supply Klingon forces in Northern Federation space. The SB at 1509 can only reach to 2106 (but not currently as ships are in the way). Captured Kzinti planet 1506 can also reach to 2106, but again supple issues. Klingon planet 1910 was captured and is also not a supply point. BATS 1811 is now the farthest Northern BATS remaining on the frontier. 1307 is the Northern-most in the ZTO. Most Klingon ships (about 49) are currently in Southern Federation space, around the other captured minor planet 2715.
At SB 2211 a strong 3rd Fleet is holding tight (47 SE), and a strong CVA-led reserve is also at 2211. The other Federation reserves are at 2606 (14 SE) and 2808 (14 SE). Smaller fleets are guarding 2606 (6), 2306 (9), 2308 (15), 2509 (15) and 2609 (11). BATS 2606 is being upgraded to a SB to replace the lost 4th Fleet SB.
A small squadron led by a newly repaired DD is currently blocking the Strategic movement path between the Klingons and the Romulans by patrolling 3116. Orion remains neutral.

By Ted Fay (Catwhoeatsphoto) on Wednesday, December 04, 2019 - 01:11 pm: Edit

CT9 Eco:

Highlights:
-Klingons roll a "1" FOR THE THIRD TIME IN A ROW on the second B10. Seriously considering abandoning it because those guys suck!!! However, 1st B10 rolled a 6 and could be done as early as CT11. It's, like, freakishly weird.
-Swarm roll is a 3. Last turn it was a 5. Turn 7 it was a 12. Follows the pattern of very weird huge swings in luck all over the place.
-D6E on survey finds a monster and is crippled. Otherwise, just plain lackluster survey for both empires.
-Massive spending on repairs: over 60 by Lyrans and over 40 by Klingons.
-Lyrans convert 2*CA to 2*DN (starting to use new Maj Conv facility)
-Lyrans and Klingons both use CDR liberally to get cheap specialty ships.
-Romulans, with limited DIP income, convert WE->KE.
-Romulans manage to flip Midketh from Gorn back to Neutral again (after managing to have flipped TO Gorn back on CT2).

Here are the links to the eco forms if you want more detail:

Klingon: https://www.dropbox.com/s/f7nrndv6ia0mc6o/Coalition_Klingon.xlsx?dl=0

Lyran: https://www.dropbox.com/s/htp330y62yd2c8f/Coalition_Lyran.xlsx?dl=0


And if you want to see the current map, here is a link to the Cyberboard game file: https://www.dropbox.com/s/rtj1kgdofnim8d3/Raiders_Lost_Dilithium_3.gam?dl=0

You will need Cyberboard and the most version of the GBX file to see the map.

By William Jockusch (Verybadcat2) on Thursday, December 26, 2019 - 10:12 pm: Edit

Hi Ted. I just got my PO rulebook and I'm trying to understand the colony rules. Reading the rulebook, it looks like a colony costs 2EP on each of the three turns it is being constructed, then produces 1EP on the fourth turn and each turn thereafter.

I'm trying to reconcile that with your Klingon spreadsheet and getting nowhere.

On turn 2, I see 2EP to start a colony, which makes sense.

On turn 3, I see 2EP to continue a colony, which also makes sense, and 1EP to start a colony, which has me confused.

On turn 4, I see 3EP to start a colony and none to continue any colonies. I don't understand either of those entries. Why an odd number? And why didn't you pay 4EP to continue the two previous colonies? I also see 1EP of colony income, which I don't understand either. Wouldn't that start in turn 5?

Clearly I'm missing a lot. But what?

By Ted Fay (Catwhoeatsphoto) on Friday, December 27, 2019 - 12:23 am: Edit

Hi William,

PO is in desperate need of an update. The rule was changed several years ago. It is now officially 1 EP per turn to both start and continue. If you search Q&A you'll find it.

Thanks for your interest!

By Rob Padilla (Zargan) on Monday, December 30, 2019 - 02:42 pm: Edit

AT9 Econ Phase:

Kzinti Econ:
Starting EPs: 31.475
Income Generated: 38.8
Total: 70.275

Ship Builds: 7 EP (FKE,FFK)
Repairs: 5 EP (2xDD, FFK, FF)
Other Production: 17.75 EP (PT,POL, PRD w/ENG, Major SY, support 11 Exp Ships)
Conversions: 2 EP
FF to FKE

Remaining EPs: 38.525 and 0 FFF

Hydran Econ:
Starting EPs: 11
Income Generated: 46
Total: 57

Ship Builds: 55 EP and 7 FFF (DG, RN, TR, 2xHR, LN, 2xAH, 3xCU,3xHN)
Repairs: 2 EP (SAR, CU)
Other Production: 0 EP (PT,POL, CW SY (ENG))
Conversions: 0 EP

Remaining EPs: 0 and 3 FFF

Federation Econ:
Starting EPs: 3
Income Generated: 202
Total: 205

Ship Builds: 82 EP and 2 FFF (DN+, CVS, 5xNCL, NCD, 5xFF, FFT)
Ship Activations: 8 EP (CA, DD, 3xCL, 3xFF)
Repairs: 13.5 EP (CC, 2xDD, ECL, F5, 4xFF, FFT, FFS)
Other Production: 20 EP (Command Point, 2xPOL, FLG, 2xPT, 2xSWAC. FF SY (Offmap w/ENG), 4 Colonies, Convoy)
Conversions: 28 EP
DN to DN+ (2211)
2xCA to CC (3604, 3611)
CL to ECL (2908)
F5 to F-F5 (3008)
FF to FCR (2211)
2xFF to FFE (2908)
FF to FFT (3604)
DD to SC (2908)
CL to LSC (2908)

Remaining EPs: 53.5 and 0 FFF

By Rob Padilla (Zargan) on Monday, January 06, 2020 - 03:52 pm: Edit

AT9 End of Turn Report:

This was a slow turn for the Alliance. The Hydrans just can't attack that much, the Kzinti's current position on the Fed/Marquis border limited their attack options, and the Feds needed to worry about the upcoming Romulan invasion and could not go too hog wild on the offensive.

That all being said, the Alliance managed to kill 10 Klingon ships, while loosing 3 of their own. Also Klingon BATS 2215 went down. Planets 2106 and 1506 were liberated. The Kzinti Expeditionary Fleet was momentarily cut off from supply, meaning it is currently inside Klingon space in hex 1508, but is now back in supply as of the start of CT10.

The Hydrans and Kzinti setup reserve forces more or less as expected. In the HTO there is a strong reserveon 617 and a weak one Offmap. In the ZTO there is a strong reserve on 1902, and a weaker (but still full) reserve Offmap. In the FTO, the Federation needed to set reserves to counter the Romulan invasion. All 4 reservers are full, and three of the 4 are pretty strong. 3 of the 4 Federation reserves are on the Eastern Front (1 at 3611, 2 at 3209). The other is over newly upgraded SB 2606.

By Alan De Salvio (Alandwork) on Thursday, January 09, 2020 - 06:36 pm: Edit

F5 to F-F5? A total 4 EPs to get another five point frigate? Tell us the truth, is this a trophy ship?

By Richard Eitzen (Rbeitzen) on Thursday, January 09, 2020 - 07:04 pm: Edit

Assuming a lost scrapping income of 1EP, that's 5.5 EPs total for converting it instead of scrapping it. Kind of dubious imo but still cheaper than overbuilding an FF.

By Ted Fay (Catwhoeatsphoto) on Friday, January 10, 2020 - 09:35 am: Edit

---

Quote:

Kind of dubious imo but still cheaper than overbuilding an FF.

---

By Rob Padilla (Zargan) on Monday, January 13, 2020 - 08:50 am: Edit

Hey, a ship is a ship is a ship. And in the early turns the Feds need all the ships they can get their hands on. I'd have converted an E3 too, just for the pin count!

By Ted Fay (Catwhoeatsphoto) on Friday, January 31, 2020 - 11:09 am: Edit

Rob and I are implementing the following house rule for this game:

"Starting on Coalition Turn 34, on each player turn, before any other step in the sequence of play, the phasing player rolls 1D6. If the result is a 1-2, then the game ends immediately and victory points are tallied."

By Rob Padilla (Zargan) on Tuesday, February 04, 2020 - 10:52 am: Edit

AT10 Econ Phase:

Kzinti Econ:
Starting EPs: 59.325
Income Generated: 37.2
Total: 97.275

Ship Builds: 7 EP (FKE,FFK)
Repairs: 1 EP (FFK)
Other Production: 16 EP (PT,POL, Colony T1 w/ENG, Major SY(FINISHED!), heal PT)
Conversions: 2 EP
FF to FKE

Remaining EPs: 75.275 and 0 FFF

Hydran Econ:
Starting EPs: 0
Income Generated: 51
Total: 51

Ship Builds: 50.5 EP and 9 FFF (2xRN, LTT, 2xNEC, PGV(free), DWH, DWE, 5xCU)
Repairs: 0 EP
Other Production: 0 EP (PT,POL, CW SY (ENG))
Conversions: 0 EP

Remaining EPs: 0 and 6 FFF

Federation Econ:
Starting EPs: 46.75
Income Generated: 193
Total: 239.75

Ship Builds: 146 EP and 15 FFF (CVA, CL, 2xDD, TG, CA, LTT, 9xNCL, FCR, 12xFF)
Ship Activations: 7 EP (CS, 3xCL, 3xFF)
Repairs: 12 EP (NCL,3xCL,CFF,F5,4xFF)
Other Production: 34 EP (Command Point, 2xPOL, FLG, 2xPT, 2xSWAC. FF SY (Offmap w/ENG), 4 Colonies, CoE(act),2xPDU(self-gen), 12 Kzinti Homeless Support lines (2 CVs))
Conversions: 15 EP
DN to DN+ (2606)
CL to CLD (3611)
NCL to NCD (2211)
CA to CAD (2908)
CL to LSC (2908)
NCL to NEC (2908)
2FF to 2FFE (2908)

Remaining EPs: 21.75 and 0 FFF

By Ted Fay (Catwhoeatsphoto) on Tuesday, February 04, 2020 - 11:15 am: Edit

I skipped reporting CT10.

Nothing much to report. No serious action, though the Roms did manage to destroy all but 1 of the border BATS on their turn. I setup to attack the Tholians, but to press into Fed space instead if Rob decided to get too forward deployed.

By Douglas Lampert (Dlampert) on Tuesday, February 04, 2020 - 12:06 pm: Edit

It looks like the Hydrans should have 0.5 EP left.