Thanks Chuck.

By Rob Padilla (Zargan) on Friday, March 06, 2020 - 10:41 am: Edit

If there is no "point" in the Romulan Offmap area, then how can those EPs be moved out via Operational Movement? There is nothing there to collect them. A tug/LTT/FFT could not "catch" those EPs, as there is no tug mission to do so. They can only be loaded with already collected EPs to transport them somewhere else. This seems to imply that there is "something" in the Romulan Offmap that can at least collect the EPs before they could go poof.

Since the Romulan Offmap area is within 6 hexes of the Romulan Supply Grid, wouldn't it just be able to send any EPs generated to the Treasury? Just like if it was an On Map province with no bases or planets, as long as a single hex of that province with within six hexes of a Supply Point, it would send it's income to the Treasury.

By Ted Fay (Catwhoeatsphoto) on Friday, March 06, 2020 - 05:24 pm: Edit

Q506.31. Does income generated in the *Romulan* offmap area (e.g., income from surveyed provinces, high risk survey bonuses, colonies by high risk survey) become lost if no strategic movement node is present in the *Romulan* offmap area?

----------

Above, FEDS clarified that the Romulans, without an off-map strategic movement node, would have to move the exploration income via operational movement first.

However, if there is no mobile base, how would offmap income generated (via survey operations) be stored in the offmap? If there is no mobile base or colony base, and if exploration income offmap must be moved by operational movement, then with no place to store the exploration income, would it not be true that the income would simply be lost?

In other words, is it true that a MB (or colony base) MUST be present in the Romulan offmap area in order for the Romulan economy to benefit from survey operations?

Ruling respectfully requested.

By Chuck Strong (Raider) on Saturday, March 07, 2020 - 03:30 pm: Edit

FEDS CLARIFICATION OF THE ROMULAN OFF-MAP QUESTIONS

First, the specific Romulan off-map rules override the general off-map rules.

Without bases in the Romulan off-map area, units can ONLY reach this area by Operational Movement. Which means that without a valid supply point in the Romulan off-map area, units cannot use retrograde movement or strategic movement to enter (or leave) the off-map area. Which also means that without a valid supply point in the Romulan off-map area, units cannot use retreat movement to move into the off-map unless all other valid, on-map supply sources are also out of range during the retreat hex determination step.

Next, off-map survey has the effect to "create" new provinces in the off-map area per (505.21). For purposes of off-map survey provincial income, these off-map provinces are assumed to be connected to the main grid via rule (430.12) if a legal supply point is within six hexes of the off-map area; this also includes income from High Risk Survey under (542.27). If there is no legal supply point within six hexes of the Romulan off-map area AND there is no legal supply point within the Romulan off-map area (to accumulate EPs), THEN all off-map survey income is lost.

Finally, without a legal base or colony within the Romulan off-map area, the Romulan off-map area is NOT considered as a "a second Main Supply Grid" under (413.1). If there is a legal base or colony within the Romulan off-map area, but there are no legal supply points within range of the Romulan off-map area, then EPs from survey can be accumulated at a legal off-map site and could be delivered via operational movement using legal transport methods.

FEDS SENDS

==============

RULE REFERENCES

---

Quote:

(506.3) COALITION
(506.31) ROMULANS: See (505.32) for the Romulan off-map exploration area. The Romulans cannot build larger bases or PDUs (or a capital) in that area; it is for exploration only. Without bases there, the Romulans can only reach this area by Operational Movement. They could build a single mobile base (510.0) (or send an operational base‡) and/or build a single colony‡ (446.0) in this off-map area to provide a node for Strategic Movement (204.2) and a place to accumulate EPs, but neither can be upgraded.

(506.32) KLINGONS: The Klingons lease an off-map exploration zone from the Lyrans (505.3) or another ally if using (652.0). They cannot build bases, PDUs, or a capital in that area; it is for exploration only. They are assumed to have a base in this area which provides for Strategic Movement and for the accumulation of EPs.

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By Alan De Salvio (Alandwork) on Tuesday, March 10, 2020 - 02:19 pm: Edit

Can the Klingons carry a Prime Team on the D7E or D6E that strategically move through the Lyran Empire on Turn 1?

By Alan De Salvio (Alandwork) on Wednesday, March 11, 2020 - 10:08 pm: Edit

Prime Teams on survey ships performing the 522.44 Survey combat mission can be wounded or killed. 522.5 requires wounded Prime Teams to be transported to their capital and be restored to full status for 1 EP (and states if they cannot reach the capital they cannot be restored). These rules are from CO.

However, a 451 Hospital Ship can perform the 451.32 Combat Support mission, where the hospital ship has a chance to heal or recover a wounded or killed PT (or heal one automatically per battle round). This rule is from the later SO.

Can a Hospital Ship be stationed in an Off-Map Survey Area with a PT on a survey ship performing the 522.44 survey mission to perform mission 451.32 as needed?

By Chuck Strong (Raider) on Thursday, March 12, 2020 - 11:18 am: Edit

FEDS finds no enabling rule that allows hospital units to accompany survey ships during survey operations in the survey area.

Besides, PTs doing survey are incapacitated during the survey phase and not during combat under (451.32); these 'wounded' PTs must return to the capital.

---

Quote:

(542.21) Deployment: To send a ship from the board to
survey duty, the ship is moved by any legal movement
system to the off map survey area of the owning race, then
(on a later turn) moves to the separate survey ship record
form. While in the off-map area, the survey ship operates
as any non-survey ship would and does not count for
survey purposes.

---

---

Quote:

(451.32) Combat Support: A hospital ship can be held
in the support echelon of a fleet (vulnerable to directed
damage at 3:1 without maulers). They are able to
attempt to "heal" dead or wounded G-factors, Admirals,
Generals, Diplomatic Teams, or Prime Teams. When
such a unit in the same hex as the hospital ship is
destroyed-or-killed, roll one die, with 1-3 indicating that
the unit cannot be helped and 4-6 meaning that the unit
is restored to duty. Each hospital ship may make one
such attempt per battle round, and each hospital ship
can only support combat at a single planet of a multiplanet
system. As an alternative to the die roll, the
hospital ship can automatically heal one "wounded" unit
of the listed types per battle round.

---

By Alan De Salvio (Alandwork) on Thursday, March 12, 2020 - 03:05 pm: Edit

Thanks Chuck

By Paul Howard (Raven) on Monday, March 23, 2020 - 06:31 pm: Edit

Sorry - another question on supply - can't see that it has been asked before.

313.41 - Paying 1 Ep to supply up to 5 units (and 12 replacement fighters on the those 5 ships)

Is there is a difference between produced Ep's and stored/transferred Ep's for calculating the maximum number of ships which can be supplied - as 413.41 states 'Ability: Each Economic Point produced in a Partial Supply Grid can be used to supply up to five units....'

i.e. can you via either Satellite Stock piles or Orion smuggling pay to supply more ships in a Partial Supply grid?

I do not believe so - as that would contradict the 'produced' part of the rule and if it was permitted 'spent/used' would have been the correct phrase to use?

Other relevant rule points are 410.34 (Facilities in Partial Grids and 430.0 Economic Rules - 430.2 does include the word 'Produced' - but to be fair, 430.1 does not - as it refers to 'receives').

In effect it seems 'Produced' is a Specific Rule which overrules the General Rule?

Thank you

Paul

By Stewart Frazier (Frazikar3) on Monday, March 23, 2020 - 08:15 pm: Edit

Think 413.413 is the key …

By Chuck Strong (Raider) on Monday, March 23, 2020 - 10:24 pm: Edit

Any EPs produced within, smuggled via pirates, send via blockaid running, or available via stock pile within a partial grid can be used to supply units and fighters within that grid via rule (414.41).

By Paul Howard (Raven) on Tuesday, March 24, 2020 - 03:41 am: Edit

Thanks

By Paul Howard (Raven) on Monday, March 30, 2020 - 03:29 pm: Edit

This may be relevant on our next turn - Rule 509.52.

At what point during a turn can the Hydran Expeditionary Supply Tug (HEST) declare it is providing supplies to a Hydran Ship and how long does it last?


Situation
Hydran force (with the HEST) recaptures a Hydran Planet (718) - but 718 is not connected to the Hydran Supply grid - so 410.25 & 410.4 will ensure the force, while it is in 718 is in supply.

But, if Extended Reaction or Normal Reaction is used, can the reacting forces obtain supplies from the HEST, so it counts within supply for Combat?

When will the supplied ships become out of supply (How long does it last - Player turn, entire turn - until the start of the next Supply Check?)

or - can it only be used during Phase 1 - Economics of the Alliance turn (and does it last for the Alliance turn or Alliance turn + next Coalition turn)?

Thanks

By Peter Bakija (Bakija) on Thursday, April 02, 2020 - 04:59 pm: Edit

(302.775) Fighting retreat into a hex with a base or base like unit.

Subsection (B) says "If the hex contains a friendly "base like unit" and the total friendly forces in the hex have more ships than the enemy forces, the conditions and penalties of Fighting Retreat do not apply.

Does a captured friendly planet count as a friendly, base like unit in this instance?

For example:

The Coalition have 4 small ships holding Kzinti planet 1502. There is a Kzinti fleet of 12 ships is in combat in hex 1503. Hex 1402 is empty and an otherwise identical retreat hex to 1502. The Kzinti force in 1503 retreats from combat. If it retreats from combat on to the Coalition ships in 1502, does this count as a fighting retreat, or a regular one?

The planet is, on some level, a friendly, base like unit, and retreating there results in there being more friendly units than enemy units in the hex.

By Chuck Strong (Raider) on Friday, April 03, 2020 - 12:52 am: Edit

Unless overruled by ADB, a captured planet with a legal, hostile garrison force is NOT considered a liberated FRIENDLY planet until it is retaken by the original owner, an ally of the original owner, or abandoned by hostile forces.

FEDS SENDS

By Daniel Glenn Knipfer (Dgknipfer) on Monday, April 06, 2020 - 05:44 pm: Edit

Under what terms or conditions are Vudar units/fleets activated in a General War scenario prior to Y182? Does a Hydran incursion into the areas that are patrolled by the Vudar release the fleet attached to that area? How long are such ships released and are there any limitations on Vudar ships that have been released?

And what limits are there on Vudar production? The Vudar economy is obviously very small, being only their single planet and their sales of ion engines to the Empire.

Do the Vudar go to war at the same time as the Klingons, or do they stay at peace unless some event activates them.

Minor Empires is very non-specific on how to treat the Vudar prior to the Klingons letting them build their fictional Republic.

By Richard Eitzen (Rbeitzen) on Monday, April 06, 2020 - 06:23 pm: Edit

In a game I played it was handled by letting them guard a few provinces and that they DIDN'T go active even if those provinces were invaded or even if Vudar itself was attacked. The Vudar were not going to be rebellious or anything, so as it happened the Hydrans had no real motivation to invade the provinces they guarded (no real desire to fight additional ships that were not fully Coalition).

By Daniel Glenn Knipfer (Dgknipfer) on Monday, April 06, 2020 - 07:06 pm: Edit

But if they don't go active even if Vudar is attacked, they never move. It is not like the Vudar have any supply points outside their capital and they cannot set up and expeditionary fleet. So they're kind of tied to the provinces within 6 hexes of Vudar to start.

By Richard Eitzen (Rbeitzen) on Monday, April 06, 2020 - 07:14 pm: Edit

I think they only got to be in 3-4 provinces. The idea was that they never left their territory. They could move 5 ships (within their own territory) and had a small production schedule and peacetime income. Vudar was a legitimate place to send a diplomat. Anywho, this may not be the right place for this conversation. I think the game was Forever War and it may be that the Vudar situation and such were posted there. Perhaps the powers that be might move this to Q&A discussion.

By Stewart Frazier (Frazikar3) on Sunday, April 12, 2020 - 01:43 pm: Edit

Is the Klingons initial ENG considered activated (and moveable) or existing (waiting for Home Fleet activation)??

If a DIP is using (540.21) or during its legacy period, if the planet becomes annexed, does the bonus continue?

Due to (602.14), could a Lyran DIP remain in Fed space during Turns #7-9, generating (540.23) income?

Add-on -
Could the test-bed frigate (CL50) be done as new construction of is it strictly a conversion?

By Richard Eitzen (Rbeitzen) on Friday, April 17, 2020 - 01:14 pm: Edit

I wish to appeal the ruling from Nov 2, 2012:

"To put a finer point on the issue: Capturing or liberating any planet occurs IMMEDIATELY after the conclusion of any battle within a given battle hex and NOT at the end of the entire combat PHASE of a given player turn. If any planet changes hands at ANY point during the phasing player turn (including raids that destroy the LAST garrisoning UNIT of a planet) then the planet ceases to be a supply point IMMEDIATELY for either player for the remainder of the phasing player turn."

The rules seem to clearly state that capturing a planet occurs when enemy forces are driven off and all defenses are destroyed and the planet is devastated.

This would imply that you could retreat after you captured the planet if the enemy retreated in a previous battle round.

For example, on round one, the enemy fights and retreats. On round two, the enemy planet has its defenses destroyed and is devastated. At this point would the planet not be captured? The attacker could then retreat or not.

The relevant rule:
(508.22) CAPTURING: If the planetary defenses are destroyed,
and the planet is devastated, and all other defending units are
eliminated from the hex, the planet has been captured.

By Chuck Strong (Raider) on Friday, April 17, 2020 - 05:43 pm: Edit

FEDS cannot see where the ruling of 2 NOV 2012 overrides (508.22).

Are you conflating "the conclusion of battle" with retreat actions?

By Richard Eitzen (Rbeitzen) on Friday, April 17, 2020 - 05:51 pm: Edit

A conclusion of battle would be after all retreat actions, which would occur AFTER the conditions of 508.22 are met (presumably).

In other words, I think an attacker could, on a battle round, destroy the PDUs and devastate the planet, and without any enemy units present, satisfy the conditions of 508.22, before then conducting its own retreat, thereby seeing the planet captured (briefly) and then liberated.

The ruling I am contesting would mean that this wasn't the case, that to capture the planet, even though the conditions of 508.22 were met, the attacking force would have to remain at the planet in order to count it as captured.

By Ryan Opel (Ryan) on Friday, April 17, 2020 - 06:14 pm: Edit

(508.23) Captured planet's hex must be continuously garrisoned...if the garrison is ever completely removed at the END OF ANY PHASE, the planet reverts to its original owners... (emphasis added).

FEDS: CONCURS.

By Chuck Strong (Raider) on Friday, April 17, 2020 - 06:17 pm: Edit

The ruling of 2 NOV 2012 doesn't change (508.22). The very moment ALL the conditions of (508.22) are met, then the planet(s) are captured.

The "conclusion of battle" (the end combat actions including the destruction units/planets/troops) is not the same as the conclusion of the SoP battle ROUND actions.