Question on 410.51 if I may please.

If an Allied Main Supply Grid has been providing Host Support to an out of supply force, can the designated ships be changed to a out of supply force which is in a Partial Supply Grid?

I would assume Yes, but only if the old Infrastructure was cancelled and new support lines (in the Partial Supply Grid) established - 410.563?

i.e. Host Support is based on a single Supply Grid (and normally would be the Host's Main Supply Grid) - and so just like an Empires main grid - if forces are not in the main grid, they can't be supported by it?

The ability to generate spare parts for another Empire from a Partial Supply grid is perhaps less logical though - and should 410.51 refer to a Host Empire Main Grid to provide the support from?

So, can Host Support be used from a Partial Supply Grid?

If Yes, would an existing Support line from the Host Main grid need to be cancelled (and reset up - both in the Partial Grid and then potentially cancelled and reset up in the Main Grid if it become if reconnected).

Thinking about it (after the paragraph), I am now thinking 'No' - as it keeps it simple and avoids a partial grid needed to be kept documented, if it's reconnected to the main grid.


Thanks

By Thomas Mathews (Turtle) on Tuesday, July 21, 2020 - 09:09 am: Edit

Q441.433 If the Federation goes with the Third Way can they put a F-101 fighter module (8Y) on an FRD in place of the second F-18 fighter module? Typically F-111s replace PFs in the Federation Third Way. However, the expense and firepower of the F-111 would seem to be a low priority for FRDs, but the F-101s would seem to give them some defensive help at a lower cost.

(441.433) An FRD can carry a maximum of 2 modules with no more than 1 of them being a PF module. (The published counters show no fighter or PF modules; these can be added to the maximum above.)

By Paul Howard (Raven) on Tuesday, July 21, 2020 - 12:49 pm: Edit

Additional information for my most recent question.

410.51 - "This rule does not require that the adopted ship can actually be in the territory of the adopting empire, only that it can draw supplies from THAT Supply Grid."

It therefore seems fairly clear when Host Supply is set up you do designate a Supply Grid - which would normally be Capital Supply Grid or Off Map Supply Grid.

The relevant questions then become

1) Could you designate a Partial Supply Grid as the Supplying Grid?

If Yes

2) What happens if the Partial Supply Grid becomes connected to the Capital or Off Map Supply Grid?

Would the Partial Supply Grid

a)be merged into the Capital/Off Map Supply Grid?
b) Suspended (but remains to be used in the future)?
c) Continue and can be used to supply relevant ships which remain in the Old Partial Supply Grid area?

The KISS answer I believe would be 'no' to 1) - as Partial Supply Grids would seem to add a lot of issues.

Which does though lead to one other question.

If a Host Support is set up from a Empires Capital Supply Grid - what happens if the Capital is captured?

Are all the production lines (410.52) destroyed or transferred (and does there need to be a supply route) to the Off Map Supply Grid?

Thanks

By Richard Eitzen (Rbeitzen) on Wednesday, July 22, 2020 - 09:38 am: Edit

Q(549.42) This rule refers to armed combatants as being able to garrison provinces and planets. Obviously LACs and SACs are armed combatants (its in their names) but are LAAs and SAAs considered armed combatants? My opponent says they are, but I am dubious. LAAs and SAAs (armed auxiliaries) are not otherwise explicitly mentioned in this rule.

My opponent is wanting to garrison a province with two LDR armed auxiliaries.

By Richard Eitzen (Rbeitzen) on Wednesday, July 22, 2020 - 05:10 pm: Edit

Q(450.13) Where can minor empires (such as the LDR, Vudar and Seltorians) build minor ship yards and conversion facilities? This rule requires a major planet or starbase to be in the hex of a new minor shipyard or conversion facility, but these empires do not have those things.

Related question: if there is an exception allowing the construction of these facilities in a minor empire's capital hex, can an engineer unit be used to construct them?

By Chuck Strong (Raider) on Wednesday, July 22, 2020 - 11:50 pm: Edit

RE: Armed Auxiliaries - (549.42)

Unless overruled by ADB, Armed Auxiliary FREIGHTERS are not classified as armed combatants and cannot be used to garrison provinces or planets. Simply put, they are civilian freighters pressed into military service and are not designed and equipped to perform garrison missions.

FEDS SENDS

By Chuck Strong (Raider) on Thursday, July 23, 2020 - 06:38 am: Edit

RE: Minor Empire - Minor Shipyards

Seltorian Specific Rule:

(546.52) MINOR SHIPYARDS: The Seltorians may build a minor
shipyard once they establish a base planet. The specific number
of minor shipyard facilities are found under (715.22) and cannot
exceed two FF and two DD facilities, one minor and one major
conversion facility; one CL facility can be built, but only after a
medium shipyard is established.

Vudar Specific Rule:

(717.2) Minor Shipyards: One Major Conversion Facility activated in
Fall Y172 inside “The Hole.” May build no more than:
two FW slips for 10 EPs;
one DW slip for 15 EPs;
one CW slip for 20 EPs;
Two Minor Conversion Facilities for 10 EPs each.

By Richard Eitzen (Rbeitzen) on Thursday, July 23, 2020 - 08:32 am: Edit

Ok, my excuse was that the question was originally about just the LDR, which doesn't seem to have a specific rule for this.

Q714.22:
So, where can the *LDR* build MSYs, and can they use an ENG to do so if that place is Demorak?

The rule says they can build MSYs, but the LDR have no starbases or major planets at which to build one.

The existing rule from (714.22):
Minor Shipyards: May build no more than: one FF (or one POL) slip for 10 EPs; one MP slip for 10 EPs; one DW slip for 15 EPs.

By Richard Eitzen (Rbeitzen) on Thursday, July 23, 2020 - 09:42 am: Edit

Q548 LDR DN limitations.

I know the LDR cannot produce DNs by construction or conversion. Can they convert a captured DN to their technology using the normal rules?

Q548.23 This rule lists a 3 EP cost to convert between Lyran and LDR size two units. Obviously the Lyrans can handle DNs. Can the LDR do these conversions on a Lyran DN?

==================

References:

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Quote:

(548.14) SPECIAL CONVERSION FACILITY: The LDR was unable to build large bases with their intrinsic conversion facilities so they expanded their capital shipyard to include a conversion capability. Beginning in Y149, the LDR shipyard has a conversion capacity of up to three points per turn [this is an exception to (433.11)]. Once per year, beginning in Y172, the LDR is permitted to make a single major conversion (433.12) (including any one X-conversion, when authorized) but the resulting ship from this conversion must be Size Class 3 or smaller. Flexible conversions (450.5) and authorized two-step conversions (437.0) are also permitted.

(548.23) APPROPRIATED UNITS: Whenever an LDR or Lyran unit is appropriated by the other, either through capture, internment, transfer, trade, or purchase, the unit may be converted for use by the other empire. The unit must be moved to a holding empire conversion facility where it can be converted for use by the holding empire. The cost of conversion is based upon the size class (SC) of the unit: size-class-2 units cost three points; size-class-3 units cost two points; size-class-4 units cost one point. The conversion must be of the same hull and class of a like unit available to the holding empire (including its SIT availability date). If a matching unit is not available, then the unit can be simply converted into the base hull type used by the holding empire or the unit can be used with its printed values (less one point of attack factor for LDR units pressed into Lyran service.)

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By Chuck Strong (Raider) on Thursday, July 23, 2020 - 11:02 pm: Edit

RE: (450.13) Minor Shipyards

FEDS COMMENTARY:
When this rule was written over 16 years ago ,the intent was to limit the placement of minor shipyards to key locations such as starbases and major planets. At that time, this thinking was valid as all major empire capitals contained both. The F&E Staff had no idea how this rue would impact the minor empires as we didn't have any idea how ADB would define the infrastructure of these empires. Indeed, the LDR under the current rule structure could never build minor shipyards because they don't have a major planet and and are limited to a battle station at best over their capital. So until we update this rule in a future edition of PO, I will issue the following:

FEDS INTERUM RULING:
Until ADB gives a final ruling on the building of minor shipyards over minor empire locations, change (450.13) to read:

(450.13) Location: Minor shipyards can be built in the shipyard/capital hex or at any major planet, starbase, or stellar fortress outside of the capital hex of the owning player, even in an inactive fleet area. Smaller planets and bases cannot support these facilities. They cannot be built in foreign territory.

By Thomas Mathews (Turtle) on Friday, July 31, 2020 - 03:00 pm: Edit

Q424.2 What tracks would X-Ships use if they make a depot roll under (424.33)? The DLR was added after X-Ships. X-Ships (523.0) are not specifically restricted under (424.37).

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Quote:

(424.2) (Extract): "Each track can only hold ships of the specified base hull types (or any variant of those hull types).

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By Ted Fay (Catwhoeatsphoto) on Friday, August 07, 2020 - 10:52 am: Edit

Q714.22 (LDR in ME): The LDR are permitted to convert one POL to MP each Spring turn starting Y169 for 5 turns total; "there is no cost to this." Clearly, there is no cost in economic points. Normally the POL-MP conversion is a 2 EP conversion. My question is this: Even if the conversion is "free" does the conversion still use up 2 points of conversion capacity at the LDR special conversion facility (548.14), or does "there is no cost to this" mean that the LDR may ignore the conversion capacity limits for this one special conversion?

By Chuck Strong (Raider) on Saturday, August 08, 2020 - 04:49 am: Edit

A714.22

References:

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Quote:

(548.14) SPECIAL CONVERSION FACILITY: The LDR was unable to build large bases with their intrinsic conversion facilities so they expanded their capital shipyard to include a conversion capability. Beginning in Y149, the LDR shipyard has a conversion capacity of up to three points per turn [this is an exception to (433.11)]. Once per year, beginning in Y172, the LDR is permitted to make a single major conversion (433.12) (including any one X-conversion, when authorized) but the resulting ship from this conversion must be Size Class 3 or smaller. Flexible conversions (450.5) and authorized two-step conversions (437.0) are also permitted.

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By Richard Eitzen (Rbeitzen) on Saturday, August 08, 2020 - 01:12 pm: Edit

Q548.14 Would this rule prevent the conversion of a captured ship of size 2 to LDR technology, as it says the LDR conversion facility cannot produce a ship of greater than size 3?

By Chuck Strong (Raider) on Saturday, August 08, 2020 - 05:50 pm: Edit

A conversion that produces a SC-2 unit from a smaller unit is different than a conversion that changes an EXISTING SC-2 unit.

By Richard Eitzen (Rbeitzen) on Saturday, August 08, 2020 - 08:53 pm: Edit

Ok.

By Paul Howard (Raven) on Friday, August 14, 2020 - 02:50 pm: Edit

Retreat and 302.733.

When does the requirement to retreat towards a Partial Supply Grid apply?

Situation

Force A is in a battle and wishes to retreat.

It started the turn in full supply and no Partial Supply Grid (413.41) Supply has been paid for.

At the moment of combat, no retreat hexes are connected to the Main Supply grid, but some hexes are within range of a Partial Supply Grid.

Does the force have to retreat towards the Partial Supply Grid supply point, which could supply it at a later point, or can it count all hexes Out of Supply, as no partial supply grid cost (413.41) was previously paid?


I do not believe having paid for supply* from a Partial Grid effects the definition of whether for a force, a hex is in Full Supply, Partial Grid Supplied or no supply - i.e. if a force could be in partial grid supply, it is required to retreat towards that source - and William disagrees on the basis that at the moment of combat, the fact their is a Partial Grid supply point, has no bearing on the retreat options.

* - i.e. I believe the paying for supply converts a ship from being 'out of supply' to 'into supply' and it has no bearing on the ability of a hex to be counted as full supply or partial supply for the rest of the turn.

Thank you

By Paul Howard (Raven) on Saturday, August 15, 2020 - 05:43 pm: Edit

Found the above answer - was previously ruled Partial Supply Points are relevant, even if supply wasn't paid.

By William Jockusch (Verybadcat) on Saturday, August 15, 2020 - 09:10 pm: Edit

The Gorns have some EP in a partial grid at 5403. During the following Coalition turn, the Coalition force blocking the supply path to the Gorn offmap region moves away. But during the combat phase, the Coalition take planet 5403. The question is what happens with the EP. Relevant rules are:

(410.341) Orion smuggling can include moving money from partial supply grids into the main grid. [But the rule does not say when this can be done]

(413.443) Unexpended EPs cannot be captured but are lost when the last supply point in the Partial Supply Grid is destroyed or captured.

And there is a rule about a similar situation -- the fall of a capital. Not sure if it is relevant or not.

(511.352) If the capital has a supply path to another base or planet at the instant before it falls, the Treasury (430.1) can be evacuated to that base or planet; treat this as a transfer to a partial grid (435.24).

The question is what happens with the EPs. The only base that was part of the partial supply grid when the money was collected has fallen. It did have a supply path to the main grid at the time, but EPs don't flow until the economic phase, and it fell before that. Orion smuggling can be used at some time apparently, but the rule does not state when.

If I might make an observation, the lack of clarity flows in part from the fact that "the partial supply grid" is well-defined only at a particular instant. Over time, it is highly unclear as supply paths can open and close during almost any phase. Satellite stockpiles are much clearer as they have a definite location.

By William Jockusch (Verybadcat) on Saturday, August 15, 2020 - 11:13 pm: Edit

To clarify the above, there was a supply path to offmap just before the planet fell.

By William Jockusch (Verybadcat) on Saturday, August 15, 2020 - 11:13 pm: Edit

deleted

By Ted Fay (Catwhoeatsphoto) on Tuesday, August 18, 2020 - 12:57 pm: Edit

Q540.251. WHEN is income received from flipped neutral planets, on the turn the planet flips or on the next turn?

Reference from 540.251 (emphasis supplied):

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Quote:

still neutral.
(540.251) Roll a die during the Economic Phase of the race that
owns the Diplomatic Team. A roll of "1 " or "2" indicates the planet
(and its defenses) have joined the team's empire at the start of
the next player turn of that empire (immediately), while a die roll
of "6" indicates that the planet and its defenses have joined the
other adjoining race.

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By Thomas Mathews (Turtle) on Monday, August 24, 2020 - 01:19 pm: Edit

Q540.28 When a Hospital ship (FHL or CLH) with the required diplomat arrives at a devastated planet, who pays for 0.5 EP for devastation recovery under (451.31)?

Q540.28 Can a Hospital ship (FHL or CLH) provide devastation recovery (451.31) to an allied planet, if both empires are at war and the required diplomat is present?

By Richard Eitzen (Rbeitzen) on Saturday, August 29, 2020 - 05:02 pm: Edit

Q635.5E Kzinti Options (Federation Lend-Lease): This rule lets the Feds cancel production of PWC to generate funds to send the Kzinti (capped at 5 EP a turn). Can DIP EPs be used in addition to EPs from cancelled production?

By John Christiansen (Roscoehatfield) on Sunday, September 06, 2020 - 02:15 pm: Edit

Is the deployment of a Seltorian TSY permanent? For purposes of its use in this galaxy according to the history, the question is moot. Should the Seltorians have eradicated the Tholians, could they have packed up the irreplaceable TSY and departed Klingon territory in their search for more Tholians?