Combat has been completed. The Count's SB went down with little resistance. The only real combat happened in the capital, where there were 11 battle lines + a pursuit over 4 rounds of combat.

The Klingons rolled poorly over Kzintai, only being able to kill 6 PDUs over 3 rounds. But they mostly managed to devastate the rest of the capital. The only undevastated planets are Kzintai, Kuballus (Kzintai II), and Vielsalm.

The Kzinti only took ship damage in the pursuit round, crippling 2CC. The Coalition's damage was quite a bit more extensive:

Lyran cripples (all the Lyran ships in the hex...): CA DD

Klingon cripples: 2D7C 2D6 11D5 2F5L 13F5 8E4
Klingon dead: 4D6M D7 TGA-V 2F5L 2F5

With 8 PDU still on Kzintai, the Kzinti are feeling pretty happy with the result. We'll see how retrogrades and strat go, but I think the Alliance outlook is very good at this point.

By Karl Mangold (Solomon) on Tuesday, November 10, 2020 - 07:59 pm: Edit

AT3 moves are ongoing. Kzinti are finished, having emptied the capital to pin forward deployments and get a fleet through to attack the Klingon FRD park. Also several small battles against the pickets in NE Kzinti space cutting off the Marquis from off-map.
Hydrans are still moving, so far home fleet, PWC and expeditionary moving against the Klingons, with the West Fleet pinned in 1013 and smaller detachments from both sides at 1214. 1st and 2nd haven't moved yet.
Lyrans have so far been completely ignored by both sides, and are feeling very left out...

By Sam Benner (Nucaranlaeg) on Friday, November 13, 2020 - 02:09 am: Edit

A3 moves are all but over (the only left to move is the Hydran FCP tug, if the Hydrans don't just leave it where it is). The Hydrans have 15 ships in 1713, two hexes short of the Federation neutral zone. I think the Expedition is just about guaranteed to succeed at this point.

I am curious, Richard, why you didn't move to 1714 and do a fighting retreat over 1813 to get into the NZ this turn. With that, there might have even been the possibility of getting the ships back to Hydran space on A4 (not that that's of huge importance, but...).

By Paul Howard (Raven) on Friday, November 13, 2020 - 02:57 am: Edit

Not being able to see the map - what was the Klingon deployment on the Hydran front...

I am guessing Home was in 1411 and West was to far West - with nothing covering the waist.

….and how did the Kzinti sneak through the FRD park?

By Sam Benner (Nucaranlaeg) on Friday, November 13, 2020 - 10:49 am: Edit

The Klingons had a dozen ships in 1013 and half a dozen in 1213 and 1415. East Fleet is in 1712. Nothing else down there.

In the Kzinti theatre, there were 43 SEQs of Klingons in 1402 and 8 ships in 1504. The Kzinti had 10 ships in 1505 (which retreated 1304->1404->1505 on C3), which allowed them entrance to 1506 - otherwise, the Klingons could have pinned most of them out and then sent a reserve there so the Kzinti didn't have a chance of breaking through.

The nearest Lyran ships were in 1303. They were able to react to 1502, but that didn't pin any ships as the Kzinti had already left.

Kzinti territory: https://imgur.com/a/TncoWJ9

By Paul Howard (Raven) on Friday, November 13, 2020 - 11:13 am: Edit

….Face Palms....

So it was literally an open door to the Hydrans then?

What was Eastern Fleet doing in 1712?

Sounds like the Coalition is massively suffering by only having 1 player - and sorry to say, has made some game ending mistakes.

This early with no full Capital Hex assault, I can't see how the Kzinti would be able to get into an FRD park or the Hydrans to get through without obvious Coalition errors being made.


One thing though (in case a rules error was made) -

How did the Kzinti retreat to 1403/1404/1505?

I can understand how they would get to 1403 (1304 being equal range as 1704)) - but I assume a further battle then happened and so they moved to 1404 (as 1304 may have had more Coalition than Kzinti in)…. but you would have to go to 1305 or back to 1403 - as it's 1 away from a supply point - 1505 is 2 away?

I can't see how the Kzinti would be able to retreat into 1403 on the first opportunity...but not on the post 1404 battle opportunity?

(Yes, if the Kzinti lost more equivalents in 1403 & 1404 than the Coalition did in 1403, it's possible - and so Coalition in 1403 might have then outnumbered the Coalition - but that's 10 Ships in 1505... what was in 1403/1304/1404 for the Coalition?)

Something looks like it went wrong on the retreat priorities...

By Richard Eitzen (Rbeitzen) on Friday, November 13, 2020 - 01:14 pm: Edit

I may explain my decision later.

By Paul Howard (Raven) on Friday, November 13, 2020 - 01:31 pm: Edit

?

With no Klingons forces to stop the Expedition, what is to explain?

The front door was left open, you walked in, stole the pile of cash on the Kitchen table and left through the open back door

By Sam Benner (Nucaranlaeg) on Friday, November 13, 2020 - 01:40 pm: Edit

The Lyrans had a single line over 1304, so they retreated. The Kzinti also retreated, doing a fighting retreat to 1404 (there was no supply to 1304 at the time, so I could pick anywhere). In 1404, there was a single E4, so the Kzinti killed it and retreated to 1505 (which was in supply from the Marquis' area, and 1304 didn't count as a supply point because I retreated from it).

The Kzinti were never in 1403.

By Paul Howard (Raven) on Friday, November 13, 2020 - 02:12 pm: Edit

Sam.... you might have overlooked 3D on the retreat priority and the hex supply calculation is done assuming the ships do retreat there - i.e. it doesn't matter if the current hex your is in or out of supply - it's where your going.

Unless their was Coalition forces in 1302 and 1402 and 1503 - 1303 or 1403 would probably have been in supply - from 1401 or 1502 (assuming 1202 was already Coalition owned).

Where did the Lyrans retreat to?

It may well be the Karl has been doing the battle order totally wrong (and so 2 v 1 has massive benefits on player numbers, to avoid these mistakes) - but from the limited info, I can't see how the Kzinti can end where they do - assuming reasonable play by both sides

By Sam Benner (Nucaranlaeg) on Friday, November 13, 2020 - 02:29 pm: Edit

There were coalition ships in 1202, 1302, 1402, 1502, and 1503 (others too, but they're not important). When I retreated from 1304, no hex was in supply. When I retreated from 1404, 1505 (or 1504 if I wanted to do another FR) was the only hex in supply when not counting 1304 as a supply point.

Lyrans retreated to 1303. The Kzinti would have ended up closer to the capital had Karl done the battle against a lone EFF in 1402 later. Given that the Kzinti usually want to end up by their capital, I don't think it's a particularly big mistake - especially considering that my margin for whether I could hit 1506 at all was just a few ships!

Really, the only mistakes were moving the FRDs forward from 1507 and reacting a ship onto an FF in 1605 - I can use that to do a fighting retreat over if I need to.

By Paul Howard (Raven) on Friday, November 13, 2020 - 03:38 pm: Edit

OK, but I would say doing the 1402 before 1304 was a modest error.

Not only would you have been cut off in 1303/1403 - he would have saved an E4.

I do agree though - reacting the single ship into 1605 is also wasteful - all that will happen is your FR over it and gain a hex to get back to 1401.

Having done the battle order wrong- leaving large forces in 1303 is just adding fuel the mistake fire - so wWhat reserves are unpinned and able to help the FRD park?

(As if you can say get say 10 ships into the FRD park and the Coalition can send a very strong 12 ship reserve to defend it, it might actually mean you can't get to the FRD park unless you get very luck on the approach battles - I could have done this in my game with William - but killing 1 or 2 FRD's if I got lucky wasn't worth taking 100+ damage on Hydran ships - which only had about 10 fighters in total!!).

By Sam Benner (Nucaranlaeg) on Friday, November 13, 2020 - 04:48 pm: Edit

There are two decent Klingon reserves that can defend the FRD park. If they all come, the Kzinti will be outmatched (the Kzinti fleet is DN BT 3CC BC 4CV TG+SP plus escorts, while the Klingon fleet currently there is C8 TGA D7 D6M D6D D6S 4D5 and a bunch of frigates). I'll refrain from discussing what reserves there would mean until reserves are sent.

By Karl Mangold (Solomon) on Friday, November 13, 2020 - 10:35 pm: Edit

I definitely forgot to do the initial set-up of Klingon fleets at the outset to prevent the expedition. Being my first PBEM/Vassal game, I had overlooked that I needed to change what was default at the set-up, since on a board you are putting it together from scratch. By turn 2 when I realized the game had started without this being done, I tried moving the 6 allowed ships per turn in unreleased fleets but it was not enough. The "expedition fleet" here was Hydran 1st + PWC. So no chance those piecemeal ships could actually stop the expedition completely. I intentionally did not react with the east fleet this turn, or else Richard could just retreat closer to the Fed border, as Sam pointed out.
Being a glutton for punishment, I am committed to playing this out. My hesitation as an alliance player to committing that level of resources to the expedition is that it would leave Hydrax with that many fewer ships defending. Maybe as the coalition this round I can prove myself wrong...

By Sam Benner (Nucaranlaeg) on Wednesday, November 18, 2020 - 01:26 am: Edit

Combat is mostly done in Kzinti space on A3.

There were a bunch of combats where a small Kzinti fleet retreated from 1602 through 1503 and 1402 to 1401. The Coalition kindly decided to retreat and withdraw to allow the Kzinti through. This had the nice side effect of also clearing a path for the fleet attacking the FRD park to retrograde to the capital (they may have still pursued, but that would have been 4CV, a DN and a TGA+BP stuck there).

Interestingly, the fact that the FRD park was not colocated with a base meant that one FRD escaped (that would not be true at a base, as they can't retreat). Still a good thing for the Kzinti, but not as huge as I had originally thought.

So far, losses:

Kzinti dead: EFF
Kzinti crippled: TG+BP 2CC 2BC CM MEC 2CLE EFF

Klingons dead: FRD D6 F5S FV F5 E4A e4a
Klingons crippled: D7C D6 D5 F5L 2F5 E4

Lyrans crippled: 3CW

There's an ongoing fight over 1502 - 67 Coalition ships and 30ish Kzinti ships (plus PDUs). Not sure how long I'll fight if the Coalition don't direct the PDUs (they won't - they've got more than enough depth). But it'll be nice to cripple a few ships to reduce the numbers for the next capital assault.

By Paul Howard (Raven) on Wednesday, November 18, 2020 - 02:22 am: Edit

Sorry, I can't believe how many Coalition carriers are dying - how come?

(I am guessing they are being used with just a single escort against full lines of Kzinti and 28 is possible with a reasonable dice - or where the Kzinti are defending and 28 is easy - with flexible carrier groups, outside small battles, FV's should have 2 escorts or 1 escort and feed fighters forward).

Atleast only 1 FRD died .

As a side note - why do the Coalition inpale themselves over Alliance hard points when they don't need to? If 1401 is fully defended on C4 - 1502 will be much less defended.

(And no doubt the Kzinti have more fighters, ignoring the PDUs in 1502, than the Coalition does)?

Get in - strip a couple of PDU's off and see if the Alliance wants to stay... - and if they do, trade 1 ship for 1 ship.

By Sam Benner (Nucaranlaeg) on Wednesday, November 18, 2020 - 01:03 pm: Edit

Well, this is the second FV to die, and the other carrier I killed was a TG+2VP that was in formation. (BIR 10 against only 88, so that was a moderately lucky roll for me). But yeah, they've been on the line with an E4A escort both times. The first time was over a minor at the capital (93 compot) and this time was the approach battle over the FRDs (106 compot).

The Kzinti had more fighters when the battle started; they've burned a lot in the first two rounds and haven't taken any ship damage so far.

By Karl Mangold (Solomon) on Thursday, November 19, 2020 - 12:20 am: Edit

I have a distaste for early Klingon carriers (I'm usually an Alliance player) and tend to build a lot of escort carriers early on since they bring nearly the punch of their D6V cousins. Sadly they don't have the same staying power. So, yes, I have used them rather cavalier-ly.
And as far as 1506 goes, yes, yes, yes, the fox got into the chicken coop. It ate a chicken. The rest escaped.
1502 was an interesting battle as the Klingons actually did have nearly as many fighters as the Kzinti, and dropped damage while the Kzinti drained fighters and eventually fled after round 3 to leave the planet to its fate. An experiment for me, and one that resolved a question. (Hypothesis: Klingons can beat the Kzinti at their own carrier game. Result: possibly, but the early Klingon carriers have dismal COMPOT, so tread lightly.)
Anyway, the grand Kzinti offensive did succeed in disrupting the Klingon FRD park, but only sank one. Traded a major planet in its stead.

By Richard Eitzen (Rbeitzen) on Thursday, November 19, 2020 - 02:28 pm: Edit

Not really traded, Klindai is usually taken by the Coalition sooner or later.

If the Kzinti can actually get to fight a pitched battle at 1502 with superior compot to the Coalition that's generally the best they can hope for.

Dunno if that happened though.

By Sam Benner (Nucaranlaeg) on Thursday, November 19, 2020 - 03:06 pm: Edit

At 1502 there were 3 rounds of combat, Kzinti with about 20 extra compot. I crippled 2BC while killing D5S CW(autokill) DN and crippling a few other ships. Had it been a Coalition turn, I would have fought a lot harder but as it is I didn't want to have tons of cripples sitting around on C4. As it is, I've got 56 repair capacity between 1401 and OM and 54 repair points worth of cripples.

It's better than I would have got on C4 (I'd have sent at most a full line out), so I'd actually say that it's a win for me economically, but a loss tempo-wise. (32 EP of damage done to the Coalition for 5.6 to the Kzinti, not counting PDUs).

By Richard Eitzen (Rbeitzen) on Thursday, November 19, 2020 - 08:40 pm: Edit

It's better than the Kzinti usually get for Klindai in my games.

By Richard Eitzen (Rbeitzen) on Saturday, December 05, 2020 - 06:26 pm: Edit

Hydran combat is over. The Hydrans do not accomplish much in their attacks on Coalition hardpoints and end up losing about ten ships, losing a CC CA and the rest various DD and FF hulls. Clever reserve movement that I had overlooked foiled quite a lot of the attacks.

The Hydrans do manage to destroy 1013 (losing a CC and CA here).

The Coalition lose a few ships and have a good number of cripples.

After combat, the Coalition do not have a lot of ships in range to attack 0617, we'll see how C5 goes soon enough.

Most of the Hydran 1st Fleet as well as PWC is now at 1713 (PAL BT LM RN HR 3LN CU 5HN SC) and is at the end of A3 out of supply. It will be interesting to see the Coalition response to this.

By Paul Howard (Raven) on Sunday, December 06, 2020 - 04:11 pm: Edit

Any chance Klingon BATS can be scuttled to open a path to force them to retreat West (and you hit 1713 with a large enough fleet to win!)?

By Karl Mangold (Solomon) on Sunday, December 06, 2020 - 05:30 pm: Edit

I have a few options I'm mulling over to deal with the 1st fleet. Unfortunately, with 1013 taken out I'm not enthusiastic about scuttling 1214, the only other Klingon BATS within 6 hexes of Hydrax. Also, at present there is a small fleet that reacted to pin ships in 1414 and then reversed over an HN left at Valoria (when the 1st fleet piled through), so they need to get out of the way as well.
C4 will be interesting, I think. As it is this game has played a bit unusually (at present the only Hydran ships actually *in* Hydran territory are 3xPGS and a CU, for example.) Certainly kept me on my toes, these two have.

By Richard Eitzen (Rbeitzen) on Sunday, December 06, 2020 - 05:49 pm: Edit

You cannot scuttle bases in that way at this point in the war; it is in relatively recent Q&A.