ALL OF THESE CHANGES WERE MADE
Prefer White on orange for Kzinti rebels, as this matches their SFB counters.

Do the Romulans need leader counters for SP, SK, SEH?

FEDS: That is ADB's call. If they should choose to do so, then FEDS would recommended the following replacements:

SPL 8-7/4 for FRD+
SKL for SK (bottom section)
SEL for SPF

By Nick Samaras (Koogie) on Tuesday, January 26, 2021 - 05:41 pm: Edit

ALL OF THESE CHANGES WERE MADE
Lyran Rebels: Should DDS be changed to SC to be consistent with Lyran counterset/SIT.

Recommended deleting Lyran rebel SAF. In the scenario They Who Would be King (Lyran civil war), they cannot attack each other's bases or planets. If that changes or they need one, they can burrow someone else's counter. Perhaps repalced with an FFT?

FEDS: CONCURS. FFT 2-4U/1-2

By Lawrence Bergen (Lar) on Tuesday, January 26, 2021 - 10:37 pm: Edit

THESE CHANGES WERE MADE ABOVE
White on Orange.

SC would be consistent.

No SAF? IIRC in the Lyran Civil War playtest bases cannot be destroyed, only reduced to crippled level which signified faction dominance. This was offered because destroying bases could lead to historical issues for the impending 4PW.

By Chuck Strong (Raider) on Wednesday, January 27, 2021 - 12:11 am: Edit

ALL OF THESE CORRECTIONS WERE MADE WEDNESDAY 27 JAN 2021
Rebel Lyran POL: Correct factors are 3-4/2 based on (R11.31) Manx Police Corvette not the FF.

Rebel Lyran FF: Recommend replacing ONE FF with FFS: Ref A31; factors 2-4*/1-2; from CL54; Y120.

Rebel Lyran CL: Recommend replacing ONE CL with HDD since the is already enough CLs and only one HDD on sheet.

Rebel Lyran CLT: Needs tug "T" factor.

Loyal Lyran CLT: Needs tug "T" factor.

Rom NHB: Missing factors are 9-10(8)/4-5(4)

Rom HDW: Needs generic box (counter is near the bottom)

WYN HDW: Needs generic box

Counts HDW: Needs generic box

Counts CDX: missing factors are 10<4>*/5*

Counts CMX: missing factors are 10/5

By Thomas Mathews (Turtle) on Wednesday, January 27, 2021 - 07:17 am: Edit

THIS WAS DONE ABOVE
Kzinti Civil War units should be White on Orange to match SFB Kzinti Civil War units as listed in Annex 7A in G3.

By Steve Cole (Stevecole) on Wednesday, January 27, 2021 - 01:31 pm: Edit

White on Orange it is.

If the staff finds something to remove, the XFF can be (and should be) added. I could see giving up an OLR, a prime trader, or a prime team.

By Steve Cole (Stevecole) on Wednesday, January 27, 2021 - 05:18 pm: Edit

ALL OF THE ABOVE WERE DONE EXCEPT THE XFF THING. I AM WAITING FOR THE STAFF TO PICK WHICH LAMB TO SLAUGHTER.

By Chuck Strong (Raider) on Thursday, January 28, 2021 - 05:12 am: Edit

ALL OF THIS WAS DONE.
Count CDX: factors are 10*/5*

Count CMX: factors are 10/5

Count DW: remove escort and scout symbols.

Count DWS: Factors are 4-6*/2-3

Count DWV: Factors are 6(4)/3(2)

Count FCR: Factors are 2-4[6]escort/1-2

Count FKX: Factors are 7/4

Count FFT: Factors are 3-4U/1-2

Count MDC: Remove scout diamond (not a scout per SIT)

Count MEC: 6-7escort/3-4escort

By Chuck Strong (Raider) on Thursday, January 28, 2021 - 02:27 am: Edit

WYN RGT: Recommend replacing with WYN FFX; Ref 207; factors 7/4. Rationale: Sheet TANGO already has all the WYN Cluster-bound units including WYN RGT.

THIS WAS DONE. GARY SHOOTS! GARY SCORES!

By Steve Cole (Stevecole) on Thursday, January 28, 2021 - 04:26 am: Edit

Good pick, I had meant to mention that the PDU on CW needed to go away.

By Steven Zamboni (Szamboni) on Thursday, January 28, 2021 - 10:38 pm: Edit

INDICATED CHANGES WERE MADE
WYN DWX/DSX: should this be a 10? CWX is also a 10.

FEDS: The WYN DWX should be 9/5; the DWSX should be 4-9*/2-5*.

==============

WYN ZDF: no enhancements over DF so it can leave the Cluster - 4<4>, not 6-5<4>
FEDS: Non-concurs. The ZDF increases shielding over the Kzinti DF. Recommend keeping ZDF at 6-5<4>.

By Thomas Mathews (Turtle) on Friday, January 29, 2021 - 07:37 pm: Edit

CONFIRMED
Romulan KC10 Factors are 16/8 according to the Romulan 2020 SIT and the Captain's Log #47 SIT.

Romulan KE Factors should be 9/5. The KE is Eagle Series Command Cruiser.

By Nick Samaras (Koogie) on Friday, January 29, 2021 - 07:38 pm: Edit

RETAIN FOR RECORD
No early Kzinti rebels? CS, CL, DD, FF? SF? DF? POL? I know space is at premium, but what about the Kzinti civil wars before the War of Return? Would rather have these than Lyran rebel generic units, who can use another empires or generic counters.

Why is Lyran rebel POL 3-4 when the non-rebel POL is 4/None?
FEDS: Because the Manx police ship is the correct values for the Lyran POL and not the Lyran FF. This was be corrected in 2017 with the new T&U counter sheet. 3-4/2 is now the proper assessment. The Lyran SIT needs to be corrected to reflect this new info.

By Ryan Opel (Ryan) on Friday, January 29, 2021 - 07:53 pm: Edit

NO CHANGE MADE
The older Lyran POL counters are wrong. They should have been 3-4/none not 4/ none
===
SVC WOULD BE FINE WITH MAKING THEM 4-4 AND NOT HAVING TO DECLARE THE EXISTING 4-POINT LYRAN COPS TO BE A MISPRINTED COUNTER.
========
FEDS: We fixed the Lyran POL when we printed the T+U in 2017; we printed its correct value of 3-4/none. Recommend no changes to the 3-4/none Rebel Lyran on the sheet. -- 2 FEB 2021

By Steve Cole (Stevecole) on Monday, February 01, 2021 - 10:53 pm: Edit

RETAIN FOR RECORD
Nick Samaras asked: "No early Kzinti rebels? CS, CL, DD, FF? SF? DF? POL? I know space is at premium, but what about the Kzinti civil wars before the War of Return? Would rather have these than Lyran rebel generic units, who can use another empires or generic counters."
====================
It is getting really late in the process for this kind of upheaval but it does open the door to another semi-generic scenario venue. (For the record, I tried to do that earlier and the staff said they could not find the counters to make it work. Well, fark, I can find them.)
-
We could in theory do six, eight, or ten counters move from rebel-Lyran to rebel-Kzinti. (Limited by the way the color blocks split.)
-
If you deleted the Lyran rebel (purple) generics [MON, FTL, LAS, PRIME TEAM, FTS, SAS] you could get six Kzinti rebels: CS, CL, DD, FF, SF, POL. (I don't think there were any drone bombardments that early, but maybe I don't remember.) Given three sheets in the wind, I mean, in the product, you could have a rebel fleet of CS CS CS CL CL CL DD DD DD FF FF FF SF SF SF POL POL POL. That would be about enough for one of the nobles to rebel with 18 ships.
-
Note: these civil war scenarios aren't going to last long; there aren't that many ships in the fleets.
-
Then I see more Lyran-Rebel counters that could go:
1. Prime Trader PTR is more or less generic.
2. I have been trying to kill the second SC for a week now.
That would add a Kzinti FF and a DD to the rebels (times three), giving them a 24 ship rebellion.
3. An HDD: There are two HDDs and two HFFs. These ships were not that common. The loyal Lyrans get HDD HFF HFF so giving the rebel Lyrans the same works.
4. GThe inclusion of SRs in the rebel fleet is highly dubious. All SRs were off in the wild black yonder.
-
If you could lose 10 Lyran rebel counters the Kzinti rebels would get 30 ships.
-
Remember that a Lyran Duke's fleet in those before 4PW days consisted of five cruisers (one CC and four CAs), five light cruisers, five destroyers, five frigates, one big and one small scouts, one big and one small commando ships, and one tug.
A two-duke rebellion would have 2xCC, 8xCA, 10xCL, 10xDD, 10xFF and the scouts/commando/tugs.
-
That would still leave a Lyran "two duke rebellion" with 3xCC, 9xCA, 12xCL, 18xDD/HDD, 18xFF/HFF plus six scouts, nine tugs, and six commando ships.
===
It's a lot of upheaval at the last moment but I think it would be worth it to get the most common civil war into the product called Civil Wars.

By Chuck Strong (Raider) on Tuesday, February 02, 2021 - 06:05 am: Edit

RETAIN FOR RECORD
Here is an option for adding a set of Kzinti Rebels counters to consider (or in-for-a-penny...):

Basically we drop all Civil War Auxes (no need to eliminate any Rebel Lyrans) as follows:

Romulan Rebels (14): SAF, ENG, PRIME, MON, OPB, LAP, SAP, LAV, SAV, FTL, FTS, ASC, FHL

Lyran Rebels (6): MON, PRIME, FTL, FTS, LAS, SAS

Then, after dropping the above, we are left with an entire row-set of 20 counters for ORANGE Kzintis. This will enable at least a full set of ANY one given noble's fleet counters plus some build room if we do the following:

DNE: 10-11/5-6
2xCS: 7-8/3-4
CD: 7-8*/4

CLC: 7-6/3
2xCL: 6/3
CLG: 2-6G/1-3G
CLD: 6*/3
SRL: 4-6*/2-3

TGT: 4-8/2-4

DD: 6/3

3xFF: 4/2
SF: 2-4*/0-2
FFG: 1-4G/0-2
POL: 4/none (POL)
DF: 4/2
FLG: 2-4*G/None (FLG)

The following ORANGE counters ALREADY exist on the sheet in the Count's Fleet (no further action required):

CC, BC, FFT

By doing the above, we can field any one rebel Kzinti fleet from Y121-Y158.

By Steve Cole (Stevecole) on Tuesday, February 02, 2021 - 01:24 pm: Edit

Still, the second SC and second HDD need to go. I plan to replace them with a DN and a BC. That won't work timewise without the full range of carriers and escorts, but so be it. If there is a better idea, let me know. For now, I have to get busy moving counters around, which will take hours.

FEDS: I might suggest as an alternation to the above additional Lyran rebel FFS and BCE to allow for two Lyran counties and some production...

Games Overwrought Designer: You do know that the product has three sheets so you already have three BCEs. Do you need six?

FEDS: Two counties plus production and conversions of CLs to BCE...

Games Overwrought Designer: You mean two DUCHIES. Even so, how much converting are you going to do during a civil war?

By Nick Samaras (Koogie) on Tuesday, February 02, 2021 - 01:40 pm: Edit

Is there on map survey allowed during the time frame of the Lyran civil wars? I thought that wasn't available before General War but don't have rules handy.

Also remember production of survey ships can only be done at the Lyran home world due to the cost/major conversion.

Kzintis could use an SDF if it can be squeezed in.

By Chuck Strong (Raider) on Tuesday, February 02, 2021 - 02:31 pm: Edit

The SDF is a Y159+ unit and there are a number of other units also available to Kzinti during the Y159-65 period. If the goal is to have all available pre-4PW era Kzinti ships then the proposal given includes them completely.

I my humble opinion, we have laid out 40 Kzinti counters that completely cover the pre-4PW Ships and the WoR Count’s Fleet. If we drop one to add any other Kzinti ship types then we might not have enough of them to either cover any one Pre-4PW Noble fleet or have enough to cover the build schedule. If ADB wants to add orange counters beyond the 40 proposed, then this could be done I suppose. Just know that from my calculations we have enough room for an entire set of historical WYN Fish ships, the complete line of Kestrel Romulan (less the battleships) to include many critical hawk series, The Counts WoR units, and a complete set of pre -4PW Kzintis to field and support one noble fleet (maybe two without a build schedule. I think that we are doing well with the space provide.

By Nick Samaras (Koogie) on Tuesday, February 02, 2021 - 05:24 pm: Edit

Eh, for some reason I though the SDF came out much earlier. Nevermind.

By Steve Cole (Stevecole) on Tuesday, February 02, 2021 - 06:11 pm: Edit

I think we actually have 50 Kzinti counters but the point is the same. They're all being used.

By Chuck Strong (Raider) on Tuesday, February 02, 2021 - 06:36 pm: Edit

Below are the Rebel Kzinti ships from the late or post-4PW era we don't have room for unless we eliminate some CW Romulan Hawk Series ships:

DDG: 2-6G/1-3; Y159
SDF: 4*/2; Y159
FH: 5-4S/2; Y160

DDB: 6*/3; Y163
DDV: 3-6(6)/1-3(3): Y163
TGC: 8/4; Y164

The 4PW ends in Y162 just before the Kzinti carrier era begins in Y163; so if ADB want to find three Hawk slots to make room for the DDG; SDF, and FH, then these units could be included in some sort of alternative, 4PW era scenario...

By Steve Cole (Stevecole) on Tuesday, February 02, 2021 - 07:05 pm: Edit

I think those all came out DURING the 4PW and there were no civil wars between 4PW and GW so I don't think we need the DDG, SDF, or FH.

By Steve Cole (Stevecole) on Thursday, February 04, 2021 - 03:49 pm: Edit

DNE: 10-11/5-6 (position 12-20)
2xCS: 7-8/3-4 (position 11-11, 11-12)
CD: 7-8*/4 (position 11-13)
CLC: 7-6/3 (position 11-14)
==5==
2xCL: 6/3 (positions 11-15, 11-16)
CLG: 2-6G/1-3G (position 11-19)
CLD: 6*/3 (position 11-17)
SRL: 4-6*/2-3 (position 11-18)
==10==
TGT: 4-8/2-4 (position 11-20)
DD: 6/3 (position 12-19)
3xFF: 4/2 (positions 12-11, 12, 13)
==15==
SF: 2-4*/0-2 (position 12-14)
FFG: 1-4G/0-2 (position 12-15)
POL: 4/none (POL) (position 12-16)
DF: 4/2 (position 12-17)
FLG: 2-4*G/None (FLG) (position 12-18)
==20==

By Steve Cole (Stevecole) on Thursday, February 04, 2021 - 05:11 pm: Edit

LYRAN REBEL HDD#2 replaced by BCE#2. I think is is a mistake since the pre-4PW fleet had two DNEs and three BCEs (five total) meaning at most two rebellious duchies would need two BCEs or a BCE+DNE. But whatever.

I still want to get rid of the second DDS and think replacing it with a second FFS is just changing one mistake for another. There are 12 scouts in the game set on the current sheet and that is way too many. The Lyrans just do not have 21 scouts prior to 4PW and no real reason to build more of them. But if you want to go this way don't you want to retain the DDS and replace the PTR with an FFS?

By Gary Carney (Nerroth) on Thursday, February 04, 2021 - 11:20 pm: Edit

Historically (If I recall the BCE's R-section entry properly, at least) the Royal Panthers were commanded by the King-Emperor's Marshals, rather than by any of the Dukes or Counts. Which is not to say that a Marshal would never defect to the "rebel" side of a Lyran civil war - but if, on balance, most Marshals could be expected to remain loyal, perhaps the second rebel BCE counter could be replaced with a ship more likely to appear in a rebel Duke's (or Count's) fleet?

Also, there remains a WYN DWX with a combat factor of 10, on the same row as the Middle Years "loyal Lyrans".

By Chuck Strong (Raider) on Thursday, February 04, 2021 - 11:49 pm: Edit

CORRECTION MADE
WYN DWX (row7 col 10): Factors should be 9/5 (not 10/5).

By John M. Williams (Jay) on Saturday, February 06, 2021 - 11:43 am: Edit

Although not necessarily an error, I wanted to raise a question about something I noticed when reviewing the Romulan counters yesterday.

Each of the Hawk series leaders has an enhanced combat value. That makes sense for the Skyhawk and Seahawk leaders as they both have a G torpedo added compared to the base hull. However, does the enhanced combat factor make sense for the Sparrowhawk leader? In SFB, the leader modules only add two flag boxes (at the expense of two hull). While this would increase the command rating, I don't see it having an impact on the combat factor.

By Chuck Strong (Raider) on Friday, February 05, 2021 - 07:12 am: Edit

THIS HAS BEEN DONE 5 Feb
Rom K7MX: SVC stated, "I think crip should be 5" on 29JanASIT. FEDS CONCURS. If this is done, then make sure the Rom K7MX is fixed on the TacOps TANGO sheets including the Klingon D7MX on TANGO.

By Chuck Strong (Raider) on Friday, February 05, 2021 - 07:22 am: Edit

ALL DONE 5 FEB 1258 SIERRA (CST)

Rom DECOYS: there is no crippled values; suggest a bolder text without a crippled stripe a la the POL and
FLG backsides. SVC SAYS THAT THE WAY THEY ARE HERE IS THE WAY THEY HAVE BEEN BEFORE. CHANGING FOR NO REASON JUST INSPIRES QUESTIONS I DON'T HAVE TIME TO ANSWER.

Loyal Lyran CLT: Remove crippled "T"; tugs cannot operate as such when crippled. SVC DID THIS 5 FEB 1253 SIERRA

Reb Lyran CLT: Remove crippled "T"; tugs cannot operate as such when crippled. SVC DID THIS 5 FEB 1254 SIERRA

Reb Lyran SR: Remove crippled "T"; tugs cannot operate as such when crippled. SVC DID THIS 5 FEB 1255 SIERRA

Rom Reb KRT: Remove crippled "T"; tugs cannot operate as such when crippled. SVC DID THIS 5 FEB 1256 SIERRA

WYN CWM: Remove crippled "+"; crippled maulers cannot maul. SVC DID THIS 5 FEB 1257 SIERRA

Rom Reb K4F: Remove crippled 'escort" factor; FCRs cannot operate as emergency escorts if crippled .SVC DID THIS 5 FEB 1258 SIERRA; ALSO DELETED BLOCK FROM SEF.

By Steve Cole (Stevecole) on Friday, February 05, 2021 - 01:46 pm: Edit

PENDING

The second rebel Lyran SC needs to be replaced with something.

Rebel Lyran BCEs: as Gary notes, these were commanded by Royal Marshals and would not be part of a rebel fleet. However, there might be two competing factions to decide who is next on the throne and there could be Marshals on either side. And as Chuck says, anyone could convert someting into a BCE.

By John M. Williams (Jay) on Friday, February 05, 2021 - 02:15 pm: Edit

SVC MADE ALL CORRECTIONS
Review of Romulan Counters (both Hawk and Kestrel)

I compared the Feb. 4 @ 4pm CW counters to the June 1, 2020 Romulan SIT

Rom Reb FHF – Counter front says 10-9+; SIT says 10+ -- Williams – Feb 5
FEDS: Concurs - correct counter to read 10+ .
SVC: CORRECTION MADE

Rom Reb K4F – Crippled side on counter has square, SIT does not -- Williams – Feb 5
FEDS: Valid - reported earlier.
SVC: CONFIRMED, ALREADY FIXED

Rom Reb KE6 – Counter front does not have “S”; SIT does -- Williams – Feb 5
FEDS: Correct counter to read 6S/3 per SIT. We may need to check values on TacOps KE6 and Klingon E6.
SVC: Klingon E6 is not shocky. Romulan KE6 is shocky. Counters in both CW and TO marked S. SITs in both products already say SHOCK.

Rom Reb SEF – Crippled side on counter has square; SIT does not -- Williams – Feb 5
FEDS: Valid – Remove crippled escort square.
SVC: I noted yesterday that I had already fixed that without any reports.

Rom Reb SSX – Crippled sides on two counters do not have the special sensor diamond; SIT does -- Williams – Feb 5
FEDS: Valid – add “*” to crippled sides.
SVC COUNTERS CHANGED. I WISH PEOPLE WOULD NOTE WHERE THE COUNTER IS. THERE IS NO SEARCH FUNCTION IN GRAPHICS PROGRAMS. SIGH.
============
Rom Reb KRV – Likely error on SIT. On SIT, crippled has (3) fighters, not 2-triangle -- Williams – Feb 5
FEDS: SIT legacy value; counters now account for half fighter factors. SIT fix required.
SVC CORRECTED THIS YESTERDAY IN ALL PLACES INCLUDING MASTER SIT.
====
Rom Reb SEB – Likely error on SIT. On SIT, crippled has (1) fighter, not 1-triangle -- Williams – Feb 5
FEDS: SIT legacy value; counters now account for half fighter factors. SIT fix required.
SVC: I corrected this yesterday before the report. I corrected the CWSIT and MSIT yesterday.
===========
Rom Reb K7MX – Data not on on-line SIT -- Williams – Feb 5
Rom Reb KC7 – Data not on on-line SIT -- Williams – Feb 5
Rom Reb KE5 – Data not on on-line SIT -- Williams – Feb 5
Rom Reb KF6 – Data not on on-line SIT -- Williams – Feb 5
Rom Reb KHD5 – Data not on on-line SIT -- Williams – Feb 5
Rom Reb SEL – Data not on on-line SIT -- Williams – Feb 5
Rom Reb SKL – Data not on on-line SIT -- Williams – Feb 5
Rom Reb SKR – Data not on on-line SIT -- Williams – Feb 5
Rom Reb SPL –Data not on on-line SIT -- Williams – Feb 5
SVC: Waste of time (yours and mine) to report this. Those are TacOps ships and are on the TacOpsSIT which will be integrated into the master sit after pubication of TacOps.
==========
ABOVE REPORT REFORMATTED BY FEDS FOR CLARITY.
Well done, VC0!

By Chuck Strong (Raider) on Friday, February 05, 2021 - 02:17 pm: Edit

I’d keep that second SC because we have designed the Lyran rebels to be able field at least TWO duchy fleets. Three SCs in the set are not enough to allow each duke to produce one additional SC each.
SVC THINKS YOU ARE CRAZY AND REPLACED THIS WITH A JINDARIAN ASTEROID SHIP THAT SIDED WITH THE REBELS.

By Chuck Strong (Raider) on Friday, February 05, 2021 - 02:20 pm: Edit

Outstanding work Mr Williams! Thanks!

By John M. Williams (Jay) on Friday, February 05, 2021 - 03:24 pm: Edit

SVC MADE ALL CORRECTIONS
Review of Lyran Rebels (Purple)
I compared the Feb. 4 @ 4pm CW counters to the April 29, 2017 SIT
=
Lyran Reb CLT – Front says 3-6T; SIT says 2-6T; counter crippled side has T; SIT does not -- Williams – Feb 5
FEDS: Correct values are 2-6T/1-3 per SIT.
SVC: CL52 AND MSIT SAY 2-6. I corrected this to 12-6 since the captain of the only known CLT was on crack most of the time. Factors corrected in Civil Wars both factions; they were already 2-6 in TacOps.
=
Lyran Reb POL – Front says 3-4; SIT says 4 -- Williams – Feb 5
FEDS: SIT is wrong. Need to be corrected to read 3-4/none. Counters were corrected in 2015 when PO counters were reprinted.
SVC: MSIT corrected.
=
Lyran Reb SC – One crippled counter says 2-5, the other says 1-3; SIT says 0-3 -- Williams – Feb 5
FEDS: Correct values are 2-5*/0-3 per SIT.
SVC: all corrected to 0-3.
==
Lyran Reb SR – Crippled side has T; SIT does not -- Williams – Feb 5
FEDS: Valid – reported earlier.
SVC: all good at this time.
===========
Lyran Reb BCE – Data not on on-line SIT -- Williams – Feb 5
Lyran Reb DNE – Data not on on-line SIT -- Williams – Feb 5
Lyran Reb FFS – Data not on on-line SIT -- Williams – Feb 5
SVC: They are all on my copy from their publication in Captain's Log.
====
ABOVE REPORT REFORMATTED BY FEDS FOR CLARITY.
SVC: Well done.

By John M. Williams (Jay) on Friday, February 05, 2021 - 03:59 pm: Edit

SVC MADE ALL CORRECTIONS. EXCELLENT WORK, Mr Williams.
===================
Review of Kzintis (Orange)
SVC: these are known as the "Tabby Faction"
====
I compared the Feb. 4 @ 4pm CW counters to the May 25, 2020 Kzinti SIT
====
Kzinti Reb CD – SIT has "drone 4"; counter does not -- Williams – Feb 5
FEDS: Add drone factor <4> to uncrippled side.
SVC CONFIRMED SIT, CORRECTED COUNTER
===
Kzinti Reb CDX – Front does not have diamond; SIT does -- Williams – Feb 5
FEDS: Add scout factor “*” to counter.
SVC: added diamond to bottom row, the only place it would fit.
=
Kzinti Reb CLD - SIT has "drone 4"; counter does not -- Williams – Feb 5
FEDS: Add drone factor <4> to uncrippled side.
SVC added it to CW sit, added diamond to bottom row.
==
Kzinti Reb CLG – SIT has “G” on crippled side; counter does not -- Williams – Feb 5
FEDS: Correct values are 2-6G/1-3G per SIT.
SVC added to CWsit, corrected counter.
=
Kzinti Reb DF - SIT has "drone 4"; counter does not -- Williams – Feb 5
FEDS: Add drone factor <4> to uncrippled side.
SVC; Added to sit and counter.
=
Kzinti Reb DNE – Counter front says 11-12; SIT says 10-11 -- Williams – Feb 5
FEDS: Correct values are 10-11/5-6 per SIT.
SVC added to sit, corrected countr.
=
Kzinti Reb DWG – Crippled side has G; SIT does not -- Williams – Feb 5
FEDS: Correct values are 3-6G/2-3 per SIT.
SVC confirmed sit, corrected counter.
================
Kzinti Reb CLC – Data not on on-line SIT -- Williams – Feb 5
Kzinti Reb SRL – Data not on on-line SIT -- Williams – Feb 5
SVC cannot find these on any SIT. Must be a Caplog SIT that never got picked up.
==
ABOVE REPORT REFORMATTED BY FEDS FOR CLARITY.
Excellent work, both of you.

By Chuck Strong (Raider) on Friday, February 05, 2021 - 04:45 pm: Edit

Commendation to John M. Williams for FOUR quality reports on CW counters.

By Richard Eitzen (Rbeitzen) on Friday, February 05, 2021 - 08:10 pm: Edit

SVC NOTES ADDED
Kzinti Reb CLD - Data not on Civil War SIT - Eitzen - Feb 5
SVC ADDED FROM MASTER SIT.
Kzinti Reb SRL - Data not on Civil War SIT - Eitzen - Feb 5
SVC CANNOT FIND DATA, SEEMS TO BE A CAPLOG SHIP NOT PICKED UP
Kzinti Reb CS - Data not on Civil War SIT - Eitzen - Feb 5
SVC ADDED FROM MASTER SIT.
Kzinti Reb CD - Data not on Civil War SIT - Eitzen - Feb 5
SVC ADDED FROM MASTER SIT.

By John M. Williams (Jay) on Friday, February 05, 2021 - 08:18 pm: Edit

SVC MADE CORRECTIONS
Review of Loyal Lyrans (Early) (Yellow)
I compared the Feb. 4 @ 4pm CW counters to the April 29, 2017 Lyran SIT
====
Loyal Lyrans (Early) CLT – Front says 3-6T; SIT says 2-6T; counter crippled side has T; SIT does not -- Williams – Feb 5
FEDS: Correct values are 2-6T/1-3 per SIT.
SVC fixed this earlier.
===================================
Loyal Lyrans (Early) DNE – Data not on on-line SIT -- Williams – Feb 5
Loyal Lyrans (Early) BCE – Data not on on-line SIT -- Williams – Feb 5
SVC: they are on my copies of MSIT.

By Chuck Strong (Raider) on Friday, February 05, 2021 - 08:43 pm: Edit

SVC:

Do we need to have SITs for the three different rebel forces if they are using the exact same ships of their parent empire. It seem like a lot of extra work to duplicate and could lead to mismatches and and errors when updating SITs. Maybe a simple notation in an annex of what rebel ships are used would suffice?

V/R,
Chuck

By Steve Cole (Stevecole) on Saturday, February 06, 2021 - 01:50 am: Edit

My plan had been to include a SIT-extract in the product since otherwise it would not be a complete product.

I for one would be very upset to buy a product and be told I have to go download part of it before I can play. That smacks of elite gamer thinking: "if you don't download the current MSITs you are unworthy of playing this game." That is not a good message to send to paying customers.

I think we can keep the CWSIT and the MSIT consistent and we can always include a note that in the case of conflict the online MSIT is right and anything else is wrong. I built the CWSIT by cut and paste from the MSIT and a quick scan shows very few blank spots, mostly for ships added since I built the CWSIT.

By Chuck Strong (Raider) on Saturday, February 06, 2021 - 05:43 am: Edit

SVC: not missing, see Row 12 counter 6.
=
Rom Reb KC5: Counter is missing. Suggest replacing one of the two KE with KC5; Ref A29; 12F/6. Historically Rolandus only had TWO KE for conversion to KEXs; this product will have 6 KEs in no change is made.

By Chuck Strong (Raider) on Saturday, February 06, 2021 - 06:18 am: Edit

SVC NOTES
WYN DWV: Remove unneeded parentheses () around fight factors on counter at location R3C7.
DONE
Kzinti SRL: colorize the scout diamond; this is a survey ship.
DONE
Lyran Reb SR: colorize the scout diamond; this is a survey ship.
DONE
Rom Reb SPV: Please check with SPP as the Rom MSSB indicates that the correct factors should be: 6-7(8H2)/3-4(4H1); MSSB (R4.15) shows six Heavy Fighters plus four standard fighters.
IT IS 8Hzero in AO and you're stuck with it.

By Lawrence Bergen (Lar) on Saturday, February 06, 2021 - 02:22 pm: Edit

Is the SRL going to suffer "obsolescence" as the Hydran/Fed early SRs have?

SVC: Obviously.

By Steve Cole (Stevecole) on Thursday, February 04, 2021 - 02:54 pm: Edit

THE PLAN
6. Make whatever fixes the guys found on Saturday.
7. Make the final fixes Monday.
8. Ask the staff any final questions Monday afternoon with orders to reply by Tuesday dawn.
9. Send everything to press Tuesday.

By Chuck Strong (Raider) on Saturday, February 06, 2021 - 03:36 pm: Edit

SVC MADE CHANGE 8 FEB 1445 SIERRA
Suggest replacing one of the two KE on the sheet with FSP valued at 6-7F/3-4. Historically Rolandus only had TWO KE for conversion to KEXs; this product will have 6 KEs if no change is made.

By Chuck Strong (Raider) on Saturday, February 06, 2021 - 03:58 pm: Edit

WYN PTR: Correct front values to read: 1-2.

CORRECTION MADE BY SVC 8 FEB 1439 SIERRA

By Steve Cole (Stevecole) on Monday, February 08, 2021 - 04:29 pm: Edit

ATTENTION ALL HANDS
From this moment forward, for all countersheets on all projects, any line item report must include the LOCATION of the counter or it will be returned unprocessed for resubmission. There is no search function in graphic programs and it is taking me five minutes each to find these things.

ALSO, in future, countersheets will be done in ALPHABETICAL ORDER within each empire.

By John M. Williams (Jay) on Thursday, February 11, 2021 - 09:39 am: Edit

RESOLVED Errors
===
Rom SKG (row 9, column 9) – counter cripple has “G”, SIT does not – Williams Feb 11
COUNTER SHOULD NOT HAVE G ON BACK. MSIT AND CW=SIT BOTH AGREE ON THAT. G HAS BEEN REMOVED FROM COUNTER BACK.
===
Rom SKR (row 10, column 4) – counter cripple says 2-3; SIT says 3 -- Williams Feb 11
THIS SHOUDL BE 2-3. THE MSIT IS JUST WRONG, SO WAS THE CAPTAIN'S LOG THAT CAME OUT OF. CRIPLES DROP 50% AND THERE IS NO WAY 4-5 DROPS TO 3-3.
=============================
Coloration issues
==
Rom KRE (row 1, column 10) – because of the non-typical coloration, I’m not sure if the counter’s diamond is survey colored or not. – Williams Feb 11
RIGHT NOW IT IS A VERY STYLISH RED DIAMOND WITH WHITE OUTLINE.
=
Rom KDS, KHD5, SPL and NH (row 6, columns 2-5) – the green stripe obscures enough of the counter that I can’t verify it. E.g., I assume the KDS has a diamond, but I can't see it.
I WILL GET YOU A NEW PRINT OF THAT SECTION OF THE SHEET.
=====================================
These are not on the MSIT. While I didn't see any obvious errors, I cannot confirm that they match a SIT entry.
Rom KC7 (row 1, column 4) – not on MSIT -- Williams Feb 11
Rom SEL (row 8, column 2) – not on MSIT – Williams Feb 11
Rom KE5 (row 10, column 10) – not on MSIT -- Williams Feb 11
Rom K7MX (row 11, column 6) – not on MSIT -- Williams Feb 11
Rom SKL (row 12, column 5) – not on MSIT – Williams Feb 11
Rom KF6 (row 12, column 7) – not on MSIT – Williams Feb 11
THESE SHOULD ALL BE ON TO-SIT AS THEY ARE NEW SHIPS. I NEED SPECIFIC SHIP BY SHIP SIGN-OFF THAT THEY ARE GOOD TO GO. YOU ALREADY DID THAT. GOOD!

FEDS: These are also on the rebel Rom section of the CW sheet.

By John M. Williams (Jay) on Thursday, February 11, 2021 - 11:25 am: Edit

RESOLVED
JAY; Rom K7MX (row 11, column 6) – not on MSIT -- Williams Feb 11
=
SVC: should be on TacOps SIT.
=
JAY: Ok. I looked up those six ships on the TacOpsSIT. All checked out except the K7MX (row 11, column 6). The counter has 13+/5, the SIT has 13+/6-7.
The K7MX on Tango (row 9, crippled column 8) has 6-7 on the crippled side.
Out of curiosity, I looked at the old/draft in progress CW SIT posted at the top of the CW "counter in progress" page. It has a crippled value of 6-7, but there is a note to the right where someone suggested the crippled value should be changed to 5.
=
SVC: K7MX/D7MX: Actually, I am the one who wanted to change that ship to 5 and browbeat Chuck into it, then just as my fingers moved to change it I decided that 6-7 was correct after all.
==
The Counter in CW has been corrected to 6-7.

By John M. Williams (Jay) on Thursday, February 11, 2021 - 12:32 pm: Edit

RESOLVED
I reviewed the Lyran Rebel Feb. 6 counters using the Lyran MSIT, except for the DNE and BCE, for which I used the Jan. 29 CW SIT.
All counters checked out except:
Lyran Rebels POL (row 13 & 14, column 10) – counter says 3-4/none, MSIT has 4/none; --Williams Feb 11
However, I believe this came up in the prior review and was identified as an error in the Lyran MSIT.
==
FEDS: The MSIT is in error ; 3-4/ is correct.
==
SVC: I have confirmed that the MSIT has been changed to 3-4.

By John M. Williams (Jay) on Thursday, February 11, 2021 - 12:59 pm: Edit

RESOLVED
Kzinti Rebel FCR (row 9, column 7) – Kzinti MSIT has square on crippled side, counter does not. – Williams Feb. 11
=====
SVC: my copy of Kzinti MSIT does not have a square (block) on the crippled side. FCRs do not function as escorts when crippled. The FCR counter on N+O in AO does not have block on the crippled side. The FCR in Civil Wars does not have a block on the crippled side.

By John M. Williams (Jay) on Thursday, February 11, 2021 - 01:23 pm: Edit

All Loyal Lyran counters check out. -- Williams Feb. 11

It looks like there are multiple differences between the Wyn MSIT and the corresponding entries in the Jan. 29 CW SIT. If I understood the comment from earlier today correctly, you plan to post an updated CW SIT. If this is correct, I'll hold off on the Wyns to make sure I am comparing the counters against the correct figures.

SVC WILL SEND YOU ONE WITHIN THE HOUR, OR POST IT, BUT THE WYN MSIT WAS PROVISIONAL FOR UNPUBLISHED UNITS AND THE STAFF REGARDED IT AS "STEVE COLE AMUSING HIMSELF BY MAKING UP NUMBERS INSTEAD OF LETTING US PROFESSIONALS DO IT." THEY WERE PROBABLY RIGHT. Even I consider the WYN SIT to be something safely ignored and superceded by the TO-SIT and CW-SIT.

By Steve Cole (Stevecole) on Thursday, February 11, 2021 - 02:29 pm: Edit

RESOLVED
Jay Reported: The Rom SKG (row 9, column 2 on crippled side) has a "G" on the crippled side, which per the ROM MSIT should not be there.
THIS HAS BEEN REMOVED.

By Steve Cole (Stevecole) on Thursday, February 11, 2021 - 02:49 pm: Edit

SPECIFIC ACTION #6
I have a Romulan K4G on the CW-SIT which I think is a typo for the K5G (which has a separate line). I cannot find a K4G on the countersheet (but then, there is no search function). Can anybody else see one? Or can Jay and Chuck certify that there is not one and this IS a ghost?
==
I don't see a K4G counter either. Just the K5G.--Williams Feb 11
FEDS: ADB - does a K4G even exist if the SFU? See line item below.

By Steve Cole (Stevecole) on Thursday, February 11, 2021 - 03:27 pm: Edit

Obscure Romulans have been posted.
=
The obscured Romulans check out. -- Williams Feb 11

By John M. Williams (Jay) on Thursday, February 11, 2021 - 03:42 pm: Edit

Oops - my report was wrong on the Kzinti FCR. I must have inadvertently looked at the EFF immediately above, which does have an escort square on the crippled side.

Even my eyes can go cross-eyed looking at this stuff!