A5 Kzinti moves were pretty simple. A couple repaired ships moved from offmap to the capital, and they were joined by 110 or so Coalition ships. There are about 100 Kzinti SEQs in 1401. We'll see what happens there.

By Karl Mangold (Solomon) on Friday, February 19, 2021 - 08:33 am: Edit

There are a couple of reserves that can reach 1401 as well that will bring in another ~15 SEQs. Kzintai has no PDUs left just the SB. It's a definite maybe whether anything interesting happens.

By Karl Mangold (Solomon) on Friday, February 19, 2021 - 08:52 am: Edit

Also re: Richard's point about retreat rules. I'm not arguing anything here, I quite agree that retreat priorities are one of the most important single rules for a player to internalize. As an example of this, I was able to use priority 2 to stop the Expedition when it outwardly appeared that success was guaranteed.
But it is one thing to know the rules, and quite another to know them *so well* that you plan out your moves using the possibility/probability of certain retreat options to turn F&E into an elaborate chess game, as the Hydran theatre has worked out this game. (Maybe it's appropriate? Hydrans do have Knights, and a "lord Bishop.")
Anyway, the tactical application of retreat rules to position fleets to your advantage is certainly as aspect of the game I have underappreciated until now. Just a thought, as I dont hear it brought up much, and we have some new players on the bbs

By Sam Benner (Nucaranlaeg) on Sunday, February 28, 2021 - 05:28 pm: Edit

The Coalition reacted into 1401 and fought 12+Pursuit rounds, dropping damage except for a BC one round and a SIDS another round. After eliminating many fighters, they left the Kzinti with 56 EP worth of cripples (plus the SIDS). However, the Kzinti were able to kill 2DN C8 TGC-S D6V+2F5L CW CLS and leave the Coalition with 93.5 EP of repairs (with only a couple of FRDs in range), so that's going to take some time to repair.

I was fairly confident that I could hold (and get to use fighters another turn defending the capital), though in another round or two I'd have to start crippling carriers. Killing another carrier group (love having that mauler) was just a bonus!

There was a bit of miscommunication as to what exactly I had in the hex; I miscounted my fighters and Karl may have also been using the wrong file. An extra 30 damage on me wouldn't have changed the outcome of the hex, I don't think, though. There just weren't enough Klingons available.

Final casualties:

Kzinti dead: BC
Kzinti cripples: Z6M TGC+2BP 3CC 3BC 2CM LCW 4MEC CLE 5CL 4DD 8FF 2SF EFF SIDS

Lyran dead: 2DN TGC+SP+(pursuit) CLS(pursuit) CS(autokill)
Lyran cripples: 2BC 4CA 3CW 6CL 2DW 7DD 7FF 3DWS

Klingon dead: C8 D6V 2F5L
Klingon cripples: 2D7C 2D7 D6 D6V 2D6D 4D5 D5S F5L 12F5 2E4

Overall, it's most unfortunate for the Coalition that the assault failed - I'll have 90-some fighters available to burn on C6, and had the assault been delayed until then the 2CC 11CW C8 D6 3D5 D5V (plus smaller ships) in range definitely would have been enough to take it. It probably still will be, but that's ~120 extra damage taken.

I will say that it was a bold move, and one that could have been really good for the Coalition's deployment had it worked. I definitely didn't expect that there was anywhere near enough Coalition ships to win the battle and I crippled more than I really would have liked to (at SB+FRD offmap, that's 4 full turns of my repair capacity, plus the cripples I already had).

By Sam Benner (Nucaranlaeg) on Sunday, March 14, 2021 - 02:37 pm: Edit

A5 is over.

I said 90-some fighters that the Kzinti will have, but it's actually more like 100 fighters are coming back (they still had a few left at the end of the 1401 fight, and they've got 120 total).

In the Hydran theatre, the Hydrans attacked BATS 0413, BATS 0212, and SB 0411.

Hydran cripples: 2DG 2HR KN 2CU HN
Hydran dead: PAL LB LM DG TG+SP TG+BP

Lyran cripples: 2CA CW CL DW
Lyran dead: STT CC FF 2FRD SB 2BATS MB(undeployed)

Klingon cripples: D6D 2D6 6D5 D5V F5L F5
Klingon dead: D5 F5L F5 Convoy

This turn illustrated the shortcomings of my statistical method - one round over the 0411 SB was the legendary 6/6/6 rolls at BIR 8, seeing the Coalition kill the PAL in formation and the Hydrans drop 64 damage, but it's scored at +0.4 because the same amount of damage was dealt. I am tracking direct damage, so I might be able to incorporate that in the scoring...

Overall, the Alliance rolled much higher than the Coalition on A5 - +14.82. It was essentially all the Hydrans outrolling the Coalition.

As for the tactical outlook in Hydran space, the Coalition have no bases in range of Hydrax, or even within 7 hexes of Hydrax (so no easy retrogrades). They have no nearby FRDs (there are two Lyran FRDs in Kzinti space, two Klingon FRDs in 1707, and one Klingon FRD in 1411). The Hydrans are in really solid shape.

I'll do a count of unrepaired Coalition cripples after Karl does econ.

By Richard Eitzen (Rbeitzen) on Sunday, March 14, 2021 - 10:56 pm: Edit

The Hydrans have done well overall but the Coalition has been whittling away at their ships to some extent and still outnumber them.

By Sam Benner (Nucaranlaeg) on Tuesday, March 16, 2021 - 11:16 am: Edit

After repairing 15+42.5=57.5 EP of cripples, the Coalition still has these cripples:

Lyran: 2BC 6CA 10CW 7CL 7DW 3DWS 9DD 7FF (73.5 EP, 51/120 hulls)
Klingon: 2D7C 2D7 TGA 5D6 3D6D D6M D6V AD5 14D5 D5S D5V 2F5L 13F5 F5E 4E4 4E4A (81.5 EP, 56/274 hulls)

That's a large backlog.

By Graham Cridland (Grahamcridland) on Tuesday, March 16, 2021 - 02:31 pm: Edit

I did something similar in my game and in retrospect I kind of don't like the choice. I think that if you are going to take a capital, what is essential is that you commit to it and rip off the band-aid. Alliance powers have too many fighters to want to fight multiple turns...

Still, the lure of being aggressive on an Alliance turn is real, and for good reason. Getting to fight over two turns - without delaying the fall of the Capital - isn't the same as spacing out the pain over multiple Coalition turns, at least.

[As I did.]

By Karl Mangold (Solomon) on Wednesday, March 17, 2021 - 07:17 pm: Edit

Yeah, I definitely took a risk, and lost the bet. If Sam had made poorer choices, or I had outrolled him (neither valid planning tactics of course) the outcome might have been different. As it was, enough hulls were sent to the Barony as swiss cheese that it may take years to complete repairs, especially if Kzintai falls. Federation aid is a few turns away. And attacking on the alliance turn means there is no chance for repair in-between a coalition-turn assault anyway.
Most Klingon carriers at this point are sitting outside of 1401, so I have my own fighters to burn. Of course they burn a lot faster when you're assaulting a capital

By Karl Mangold (Solomon) on Wednesday, March 17, 2021 - 07:22 pm: Edit

Repeated assaults on Kzintai in the Fall of Y170 still had not ended the siege. Many coalition ships were crippled, but on the flipside much of the Kzinti fleet had been evacuated to the Barony for repairs the Hegemony could ill-afford. Despite the new cooperation between the Tigress and Timur, (the two saw eye-to-eye on many issues, it turns out), coalition efforts still resulted in less than the quick victory hoped-for, and it seemed that Kzintai would have to be slowly worn down to nothing. As it was, a morale victory was won in the devastation of the home planet itself, although the Starbase and shipyard still held mostly intact. The Patriarch, or "Scaredy-Cat" as Lyran media now referred to him as, was assumed to have fled to the Barony.
Hydran actions were not altogether unexpected. After fleets in eastern Hydran space were either destroyed or forced to hole up in the Expeditionary starbase, it seemed natural that the Kingdom would turn its eyes to the inadequately defended Lyran frontier...
With a new Emperor was on the throne in Klinshai, Grey-Ears' Klingon ally was gone, and Timur wasted no time in declaring Grey-Ears' "Operation Wedge" an abject failure. Grey-Ears nearly suffered a breakdown; he did not appear in public for weeks at a time, and was rumoured to be spending morning and night in the temple at the Ducal starbase of Enemy's Blood. He was virtually unaware when the Hydran attack on said starbase occurred, and in answer to his prayers suffered mortal injuries when a kamikaze Stinger ripped through the starbase's hull near his place of worship.
Grey-Ears' sons fared less well. Even more devout than their father, and caring little for war, they had cloistered at an old temple on a small moon that was unfortunately located near the border Battlestation 0413. With the Hydran assault (warnings to leave by their advisors fell on deaf ears), everything on the moon was vaporized in a coordinated volley of Hellbores. No remains were found of the ancient temple, much less of Grey-Ears' only heirs.
"Bloody-Claws," the young and unproven new Admiral of Enemy's Blood Duchy, had (likely by design) become the de-facto head of Enemy's Blood Duchy. Many speculated that his controversial strategy of sacrificing hardpoints within the EB Duchy in exchange for destroying valuable Hydran hulls was as much influenced by the possibility of personal gain as much as the strategic gains that might result. It was known in many circles that the Tigress had given Bloody Claws carte blanche for his actions, and her disdain for Grey Ears (and Enemy's Blood Duchy in general) was no secret. It was clear to the Klingons that this Empress was a new kind of Lyran leader.
Now the EB Duchy would have to be rebuilt. However, with a moat of empty, deep space between the Hydran frontier and Lyrantan, and a hungry host of Klingon assets on the eastern Hydran border, it seemed that the Lyran capital was safe. For now.

By Karl Mangold (Solomon) on Thursday, March 18, 2021 - 08:23 am: Edit

Y171 Spring, Coalition turn 6
Lyran Economy
Survey
Prev Total:47
New Roll: 5
Total: 52

Command Points: 8+1-1=8

Prev Turn:
-16 Field Repair, -1 strat movement
23.25 salvage (DNx2, STTx3, CC, CA, CWx2, CL, DDx2, SC, FFx4)
22.05 old treasury
28.3 remaining (end of A5)

Income
Maj Planets(9):45
Min Planets(10):30
On-Map Provinces(16):32
Off-Map Provinces(6):12
Captured NZ1.4)
Captured Provinces8) (0701, 0901, 0803, 1101, 1104, 1303, 1501, 0714)
Captured Planets4) (1001, 1105 min, 1502 maj)
Total: 132.4

New Treasury:160.7

Production [75.5]
16 DN
8 TGA sub CA
13 CVL sub CW (3fff)
6 CWE sub CW
10 CWx2
6 DWS sub DW
5 DWE sub DW
4 DW
7.5 FFx3

Repairs [15]
1105 CWx4
0801 CWx3
0809 DW
0408 CLx2

Conversions [5]
5 CA to STT 0408

Overbuilds [10]
FFx2 (0408)

Other Production [44]
20 transfer to Klingons (tribute payment)
2+12 CV+ pod
10 FRD

149.5 total expenses
11.2 remaining

By Karl Mangold (Solomon) on Thursday, March 18, 2021 - 08:28 am: Edit

Y171 Spring, Coalition turn 6
Klingon Economy
Survey
Prev Total:42
New Roll: 9
Total: 51

B10
Prev Total:16
New Roll: 6, 4
Total: 26

Command Points:7+1=8

End CT4 Treasury: 10.925
Field Repair: 0
Salvage: 31.325 (C8, D7C, D6M, CVT, D7, D6V, D5x2, F5Lx5, F5x3, FV, E4A)
Drone Bombardment: -18
Allied delivery: +20
Start treasury: 44.25

Income
Maj Planets(9):45
Min Planets(15):45
On-Map Provinces(26):52
Off-Map Provinces(2):4
Captured NZ26):4.2
Captured planets (3 min):2 (1504, 1202, 1506)
Captured Prov(5):2 (1503, 1404, 0917, 1015, 1118)
Total C3 income:158.4

Total:158.4+44.25= 202.65 new treasury

Production [101.5]
5 B10 work sub C8
8 TGA sub D7
10 D6M sub D6
7 D5V sub D5 (6fff)
7 D5S sub D5
6 AD5 sub D5
30 D5x6
8 F5L x2
4 F5E sub F5
9 F5x3
7.5 E4 x3

Repair [42.5]
1707 D7x4, D5, F5
0906 F5L
1417 F5, E4
1807 E4
1716 E4x3
1411 D7x2, D6, TGB, D5x9, F5Lx2)

Activate [6]
2 D6 x2 (12 remain)
2 F5 x2 (0 remain)
2 E4 x2 (0 remain)

Conversion [11]
5 D6 (activated) to D6M (major) 1411
3 D6 (activated) to D6D (minor) 1411
3 D6 (repaired) to D6D (minor) 1411

Other Expenses [41]
5 B10 work
36 Upgrade BATS -> SB 1707

202 total expenses
0.65 EP Treasury

The Klingons are pleased that their first battleship is more than 50% complete.

By Stewart Frazier (Frazikar3) on Thursday, March 18, 2021 - 07:59 pm: Edit

Hmmm, what happened to the B10 build, I see one for the C8 sub addon but not the 'original' build?

By Sam Benner (Nucaranlaeg) on Thursday, March 18, 2021 - 08:16 pm: Edit

It's down in "Other Expenses".

By Karl Mangold (Solomon) on Thursday, March 18, 2021 - 08:20 pm: Edit

I never know where to put it, from an accounting perspective, so I just list an "other" category

By Karl Mangold (Solomon) on Friday, March 19, 2021 - 09:29 am: Edit

C6 Op moves are underway...
Kzinti theatre moves are done; I didn't have the ships to take Kzintai after my alliance-turn assault, so instead I took the route of attacking the Marquis SB, as well as Dmitris and 2 border BATS. The SB is of course poorly defended, but I'm guessing the Fed 4th fleet reserve will show up to join the fun. A few fed ships reacted in to help with BATS 1803 as well. 1401 is eerily quiet...
The Hydran front is well underway. 2 remaining BATS, the 2nd SB, and Hydraxaport are under attack with little resistance. However the Exp SB and Pthaa III got a lot of help from 0617 ships reacting out. Especially the planet, where the Kingdom's only dreadnought and 2/3 of remaining cruisers turned out for the fight. I guess Richard wants to keep it?
Only a couple if Klingon fleets are remaining to move so we should be moving on the combat here momentarily. (Neither alliance player has reserves that can move.)

By Sam Benner (Nucaranlaeg) on Friday, March 19, 2021 - 11:04 am: Edit

> Neither alliance player has reserves that can move.

Except the Fed reserve from the 4th fleet, of course.

It probably can't save the Marquis' SB if Karl's willing to take the cripples, but considering the number of cripples the Coalition already has it's possible he won't be.

By Karl Mangold (Solomon) on Friday, March 19, 2021 - 01:39 pm: Edit

Right, I had already referenced the Fed reserve. Of course the Feds are just waking up to the idea of war...
Don't underestimate my tolerance for repairs!

By Sam Benner (Nucaranlaeg) on Friday, March 19, 2021 - 11:15 pm: Edit

The Klingons showed once again that Federation media unfairly stereotypes them as blockheaded battle-junkies. Real Klingons are brilliant engineers - consider the amazing progress on their B10! Of course, this means that "narrow overloaded photon torpedo salvo" is not a phrase that easily comes to mind. Subtext: the Klingons rolled quite poorly over 1704.

Captain Jennifer of the Federation dreadnought Valkyrie demonstrated just how bloodthirsty the Federation actually is, devastating the Klingon fleet while taking minimal casualties upon her own. Factions within the Federation alternately blasted and praised Jennifer's actions, saying that she "entered the neutral zone before it was clear that the mutual defense pact with the Kzinti would be triggered" or that she "showed the Klingons what it would be like to enter Federation space".

The Marquis' starbase was saved, and plans are underway to evacuate the civilian population to the Federation until such time as it's possible to return them to Kzinti space.

-------------------------------------------------

Kzinti crippled: CM 4SIDS (1.5 EP)
Federation crippled: CC 3DD 2FF (8.5 EP)
Federation dead: SC

Klingon crippled: D7C D7 TGA D6D D6S 3D5 F5L 3F5 6E4 (25 EP)
Klingon dead: D6D(pursuit) F5(autokill) F5L

By Paul Howard (Raven) on Saturday, March 20, 2021 - 05:49 am: Edit

What was defending the Marquis SB and what attacked it - as the damage both sides did seems fairly low?

Without 'near certainty' (yep 1 v 6 rolls would scupper most plans) of killing the SB, the attack almost certainly wasn't worth it.

Bringing the Feds in 1 turn early is pretty major (especially as the Coalition went through the pain of stopping the Hydran Expedition - and so the damage done to the Coalition has been compounded) - Feds war production line starts 1 turn earlier - Eps flow to the Kzinti AND the stupid Federation deployment is nullified (Fed Home Fleet can SM 13 ships to the Kzinti border for example and use the 4th Fleet Reserve Marker on it - allows 2 Tugs carry Ep's and the rest of home Op moves etc).

By Karl Mangold (Solomon) on Saturday, March 20, 2021 - 08:50 am: Edit

Ultimately, coalition rolls were very poor over the Marquis SB; I had directed the Fed scout round 1 specifically to gain EW advantage, and then Sam ended up outrolling me twice in a row even with a -2 shift in my favor. With casualties starting to pile up, I decided it wasn't worth crippling the fleet I had to try and score the SB. At least it ended up with 4 SIDS, I guess.
I'm not opposed to Federation limited war on turn 6; yes, the Feds are activated, but at the limited war level and only 1 turn earlier than they would anyway. They still have to pay for the godawful CVA that otherwise would be free PWC anyway (and that PWC goes away.) Production is anemic early on, and if the Feds really want to help the Kzinti they will have to divert resources from elsewhere, which potentially opens up opportunities for the *actual* Klingon invasion.
My choice this turn for the Kzinti theatre was A) Do nothing, since I didn't have the ships to force the 10+ carriers out of 1401, or B) take the low-hanging fruit of the Marquis provinces. I chose the latter, of course. (Incidentally the planet was captured and 2 border BATS destroyed as well, but that's besides the point.)
Anyway something I'm trying to do this game is to test standard F&E dogma about how things are "normally done." I'm not interested in playing a regular game following all the old usual strategies. Like the old Klingon proverb says, "There's more than one way to skin a cat."

By Paul Howard (Raven) on Saturday, March 20, 2021 - 09:13 am: Edit

No idea if anyone has calculated what the Turn 6 PWC would cost v 50% normal income and paying for the CVA (and other builds)?


I don't disagree about how weak the Feds are early on - but sending the Fed 4th Fleet (and 2nd CVL Fleet) plus new builds to the Kzinti front is basically offset by the Fed Home fleet arriving to help the 3rd and 4th Fleet areas.

If you can't take 1401 on turn 6 - you probably don't have the strength to attack the Feds on turn 7 - unless your going to kill the Feds and ignore the Kzinti and Hydrans (which is a valid tactic, as a I found in my last game with William)?

What can invade on turn 7?

By Sam Benner (Nucaranlaeg) on Saturday, March 20, 2021 - 10:06 am: Edit

We'll have to see what's available to invade turn 7 - there are a lot of repaired ships in various places that could strat to the front.

Ships in 1704 before the battle:

Kzinti: CC 2BC CM CL CVE 2FF DF 6IFF(1803)
Fed: DN CC 3CA 3DD 3FF SC

Klingon: C8 D7C D7 4D6D 2D6S TGA-V 3D5 2F5L 4F5 2F5S 3F5V 23E4 E4A

Perhaps the biggest error that Karl made was killing the SC round 1. Using the same lines and rolls, the EW difference only saved Karl 7 damage. With even luck the SB would have went down if he hadn't killed the SC, but with killing it the Klingons needed to outroll the Alliance.

By Sam Benner (Nucaranlaeg) on Saturday, March 20, 2021 - 10:44 am: Edit

As for turn 6 PWC: it's 71EP + 15FFF. That leaves 221 * 0.75 - 71 = 94.75 EP available for other uses.

One other difference in bringing the Federation in early is that they can build 3NCL 3FF more on turn 8 (as compared to if the Feds aren't brought in early). Because it's only 1 turn early, though, they don't get to move the 12NCL/FF turn forward, which would be a big difference in ships available.

By Gregory S Flusche (Vandar) on Saturday, March 20, 2021 - 11:08 am: Edit

I have a silly question. Why that is SFB a starbase can put out insane amounts of EW. Yet in most cases the defending force in F&E seems to be at -ECM vs the attacker? IS it that the Alliance just has poor scouts or the Collation has just more and better scouts?

I would have thought that a Starbase would give the defenders a EW edge all the time?