Without a rule exception you are assuming somebody knows the intent of the scenario design. It could have been intentional for the scenario (although I now realize that it was not) that the ISC was limited to the stating 6 MBs since that was all of the bases actually built during the scenarios time period (the scenario is not clear on this).

I still believe the scenario should specially list an exception but will not argue it further. Thanks for your input.

By John M. Williams (Jay) on Saturday, March 06, 2021 - 02:37 pm: Edit

Hi,

I am a new player with a few questions, which I assume have been answered before, but the search functionality on older posts makes it much harder to find things. Plus, there's a risk that there's been a rule change since those older discussions.

1A) When conducting an assault on a multi-system capital hex, assume the attacker only attacks one system. Can the fighters on carriers, bases and/or PDUs from the systems not being attacked assist in the defense of the system under attack?

1B) Further, since 511.55 requires the attacker to designate a specific planet within a system as the focus of the attack, what about the fighters on PDUs from any other planets within the system?

1C) If they can assist, are they treated as independent fighters and therefore under the limits of 302.332 and 302.351? (counting against command limits and limited to three ship equivalents)

2) During initial construction, fighters on Hydran true carriers cost two points each whereas fighters on casual carriers cost only a point each. Is there an operation difference between the two types of fighters? I don't see any, but the cost difference suggests the true carrier fighters have some functionality that the others do not. If anything, it seems like hybrid fighters are more valuable since since 302.334 exempts hybrid fighters from the three ship equivalents limit.

Thanks in advance.

By Paul Howard (Raven) on Saturday, March 06, 2021 - 04:26 pm: Edit

Hi John

First - welcome!

On your questions

1A) Fighters on SB/BATS and Carriers can be used as IFF squadrons to help planets in the same system under attack - but can't go to the other systems. Rule is 511.572

1B) No PDU fighters can't go to other planets in the same system. 511.572 again

1C) Yes. Also 511.572

2) Zero difference - game 'reason' is that Carrier Fighters will be used many many times - and Hybrid Carriers less often (which is true - RN and HR's for example die all the time).

True Carriers can replenish Hyrbid Carriers and Hybrid Carriers can replenish True Carrier.

Hybrid Fighters are indeed except from the 3 squadron limit - but only if their ship is in the battle force for that round (so if they send their fighters forward as IFF's - the count as normal towards both the 3 squadron limit and Command limits)

By John M. Williams (Jay) on Saturday, March 06, 2021 - 04:46 pm: Edit

Thank you!

Sorry about that. Somehow I missed that statement in 511.572. There's a lot to learn here!

Jay

By Thomas Mathews (Turtle) on Saturday, March 06, 2021 - 05:44 pm: Edit

John, the keyword search works fairly well when using rule numbers. Also when looking through the results, note where the rule number is listed. Q&A, and Q&A archive are your number 1, and 1A choices to look at.

Also, use right click and open in new tab to see the actual result. This allows you to go back to the original tab if the link you clicked on doesn't have the answer to your question.

By John M. Williams (Jay) on Saturday, March 06, 2021 - 08:25 pm: Edit

Hi Thomas,

I try do that. And you are correct - searching on a rule number can be very helpful, assuming you already know the rule number.

What makes the searches of older discussions more difficult is the consolidation of the old posts. I'll do a word search, find a phrase that looks promising and click on that hotlink. For example, since I now know that 511.572 was the answer to my question, I did a search on that number to see what else had been said. There was an entry from 2004 discussing that rule. However, when I clicked on the hotlink, I was taken to the top of a consolidated post. The actual reference to the rule number and discussion was several hundreds lines down into the post. It's very easy to miss something when skimming through those long posts.

In contrast, the newer posts are much simpler because when you click on the hotlink, it takes you right to the discussion you want. Unfortunately, as a beginner, most of my questions are covered in the older posts.

Once you're in one of the older consolidated posts, is there a way to search for the phrase you're looking for within the post?

By Thomas Mathews (Turtle) on Saturday, March 06, 2021 - 09:05 pm: Edit

Sort of. You can use the find function in the browser to help you find the phrase or rule number. Ctrl F is your friend at times. I constantly use it when I'm trying to find the ruling or Q&A to verify something I'm pointing out or answering.

By John M. Williams (Jay) on Saturday, March 06, 2021 - 09:15 pm: Edit

Thank you! I did not know that. I just gave it a test, and it worked like a charm. It'll be a big help going forward!

By Paul Howard (Raven) on Saturday, April 03, 2021 - 04:49 am: Edit

Continued from Q&A....
"
704.23 allows construction of the following carriers (and does not appear in a keyword search) (There is a discussion May 22, 2007 about Romulan build schedules for carriers, which just says they're weird and screwed up):

1 CNV or SUB per year and;
1 SPB (or KR->KRV conversion) and 1 SKV per turn and;
1 SUP (a single-ship carrier) per turn and;
1 WH per turn (if you really like awful ships). "

I believe you need to look at the type of carrier (from the SIT) to work out which slot it uses - the basic Romulans rules cover the ships in F&E2010 - and the expansions add the new hulls.

So Heavy Carriers are the CNV/SUB/PHX(VLV etc)

Medium are carriers are the SPB/FHB/NHB (and BEV, KRV etc)

Light/Escort Carriers are SKV etc

You then have the two special permitted hulls - the SUP and 2WH

So Roms are allowed per turn, 1 Heavy (per year), 1 Medium, 1 Light/Escort PLUS 1 SUP and 2WH (as 2 WH's count as the 'Carrier')

Conversions take up the relevant slot of the new hull (so if you convert a WH to a BEV, that's the medium hull slot used).

By Thomas Mathews (Turtle) on Saturday, April 03, 2021 - 06:07 am: Edit

---

Quote:

By Sam Benner (Nucaranlaeg) on Friday, April 02, 2021 - 09:04 pm: Edit

What can the funds in a satellite stockpile be used for? (413.453) says that they can be used to pay for any costs in a partial grid, but doesn't talk about anything in the main grid. In particular, if the Kzinti have a satellite stockpile offmap but have never lost their capital (it's still in 1401), can they be used? I'd expect that it could be used to pay for repairs or other costs offmap (in the same hex as the stockpile), at the very least, but there seems to be no enabling rule.

1) Can an OM stockpile be used to pay for new construction
1a) OM? (Probably yes)
1b) in 1401? (Probably no)
1c) at the Marquis' SB in 1704?

2) Can an OM stockpile be used to pay for repairs
2a) OM? (Probably yes)
2b) in 1401?
2c) elsewhere?

3) Can an OM stockpile be used to pay for DBB or other out of phase costs?

---

By Sam Benner (Nucaranlaeg) on Saturday, April 03, 2021 - 10:18 am: Edit

Yes. That's why I'm asking - if I make a stockpile offmap, is it completely unusable (except for further transfers) as long as the capital stands? (413.453) implies that, but it's surprising that it's not usable for expenses occurring in the same "hex". So I'm asking in case I missed something. It's not going to come up for a while in my current game anyway (if it ever does).

By Thomas Mathews (Turtle) on Saturday, April 03, 2021 - 11:19 am: Edit

If EPs were transferred from the Marquis Starbase (e.g.) to the off map then the EPs would be available for use the following player turn.

By Sam Benner (Nucaranlaeg) on Saturday, April 03, 2021 - 03:48 pm: Edit

Yes, but for what? It's a satellite stockpile in the main grid, and the only guidance is "you can't transfer it to the capital's treasury." It's much more relevant when it's coming from the Federation, as you can shave a turn off the round trip.

By Jason E. Schaff (Jschaff297061) on Saturday, April 03, 2021 - 06:34 pm: Edit

Going back to the original question, why in the name of 42 cents would the Kzinti establish a satellite stockpile offmap? There is no possible advantage to doing so, as it is not possible to break lines of communication between the capital and the offmap and the treasury is automatically evacuated to the offmap if the capital falls.

By Sam Benner (Nucaranlaeg) on Saturday, April 03, 2021 - 09:31 pm: Edit

Because if the Feds transfer EPs, it takes 4 turns round trip:

(Fed OM)->2908->Fed OM
Fed OM->Kzin OM
Kzin OM->1401->Kzin OM
Kzin OM->Fed OM

If the incoming EPs go into a satellite stockpile in the Kzinti offmap it saves a turn per trip; it saves 2 tugs from having to be on rotation.

If the EPs can only be used for repairs offmap that's worth it (SB+FRD is 14EP/turn, SB+2FRD is 20EP/turn); if they can't be used at all it's only maybe worth it (if the capital falls a few turns later).

By Jason E. Schaff (Jschaff297061) on Sunday, April 04, 2021 - 08:32 am: Edit

I'm not sure that is allowed under the rules.

435.22 requires that inter-ally transfers go from the capital of one empire to the capital of another.

435.35 creates an exception in which transfer can occur into or out of a partial grid.

413.4 defines a partial grid ass a portion of territory cut off from _both_ the capital and the off-map area.

By 413.4, the off-map area can _never_ be a partial grid and therefore cannot be a valid delivery point for EPs transferred from an ally unless the capital moves to the off-map area.

The fact that a satellite stockpile has been set up somewhere does not make it a partial grid eligible to receive transfers.

By Sam Benner (Nucaranlaeg) on Sunday, April 04, 2021 - 10:27 am: Edit

Actually, that's not quite right. 435 does not allow transfers to a satellite stockpile. 435.35 allows deliveries to "the centre of the partial grid".

413.452 says that transfers via 435 can go to a satellite stockpile. There are no restrictions on the location of said stockpile except that it must be in the race's original territory, and it's specifically mentioned that the stockpile does not need to exist before delivery.

By Jason E. Schaff (Jschaff297061) on Sunday, April 04, 2021 - 12:16 pm: Edit

That's interesting, because it creates an apparent contradiction between 435.22 / 435.35 and 413.452.

The rules on EP transfer limit delivery to a capital (435.22) or partial grid (435.35) but 413.452 allows delivery to _any_ satellite stockpile within the receiving empire's original territory.

It may be worth doing a search to see if this has ever come up in prior Q&A.

By Sam Benner (Nucaranlaeg) on Sunday, April 04, 2021 - 01:15 pm: Edit

I did read everything in Q&A with 435 as the search term; didn't see anything.

Another interesting tidbit is that there seems to be no provision to transfer funds from a satellite stockpile in any circumstance.

It's also unclear what the requirement to return to the capital to be reassigned actually does - it seems linked to the limit of one round trip per turn (but a tug can only take one mission per turn anyway). If it's not, it's very bizarre, as a Kzinti tug transferring EPs from the Feds would need to return to the Federation capital before it could take any other mission.

AFAICT, neither of those have any rulings either.

By Richard Eitzen (Rbeitzen) on Sunday, April 04, 2021 - 01:30 pm: Edit

Note that the Kzinti offmap is a main grid whether or not 1401 is held.

Offmap areas are in themselves a main grid. For example, if the Hydran offmap is cut off from 0617, you get TWO main grids, one originating from the Hydran offmap and the other originating from 0617 (assuming 0617 hasn't fallen).

By Richard Eitzen (Rbeitzen) on Sunday, April 04, 2021 - 01:32 pm: Edit

Practically speaking it seems clear that an empire *should* be able to deliver EPs to any friendly starbase its transports can reach. It might be best to move forward with that assumption in mind.

By Jason E. Schaff (Jschaff297061) on Sunday, April 04, 2021 - 04:29 pm: Edit

Regarding moving EP from a satellite stockpile to the capital, 413.453 permits use of the procedures in 435.0 (and only those procedures) to remove EP from a satellite stockpile. Given that 413.451 allows an empire to use the procedures of 435.0 to move EP internally to create a satellite stockpile, I would assume that the reverse is true as well. i.e. if the Feds can deliver EP to an off-map Kzinti stockpile, the Kzinti could then use a transport (this would be a great use for a convoy) to pick up the EP and haul them to the capital.

Regarding the idea of delivery of EP to any SB in the receiving empire, absent a ruling or Q&A decision to that effect, I see nothing to support such an assertion. The various rules involved are very specific, albeit not completely aligned, about possible destinations for delivery of transferred funds (capital, satellite stockpile, or partial grid). There is neither statement nor obvious implication that any SB would be acceptable for delivery into the main grid / economy. If delivery to a satellite stockpile within the main grid is allowed, then the delivery could be made to a SB, or even a planet, but would result in the creation of a satellite stockpile which would then need to be moved to the capital.

By Richard Eitzen (Rbeitzen) on Sunday, April 04, 2021 - 05:45 pm: Edit

My position, assuming my opponent in a game agrees, is that you can use a satellite stockpile to pay for things in a partial grid that contains the satellite stockpile or (at least) at the location of the satellite stockpile, ie EPs stored at SB1704 can be spent at that hex regardless of what type of grid it is.

If my opponent disagrees, I would then go to the bother of taking it to Q&A if need be and see what the powers that be say.

***

Also clearly, the Feds can create a satellite stockpile for the Kzintis at Kzinti SB 1704 or the Kzinti offmap, see 413.452

By Jason E. Schaff (Jschaff297061) on Sunday, April 04, 2021 - 06:26 pm: Edit

At 1704, it is unambiguous that the Feds could create a satellite stockpile for the Kzinti _if_ 1704 were cut off from the main Kzinti grid. The same would hold for 1802 since satellite stockpiles can be at planets.

The problem is that for the off-map or if 1704 is connected to the Kzinti main grid 413.452 is in direct conflict with 435.0. 435.0 allows for _only_ two possible points of delivery for transfers from another empire; the capital (435.22) or a partial grid (435.25). Nowhere does 435.0 provides any other destination options, so, as written, an offmap stockpile or any other stockpile connected to the main grid are _not_ valid delivery point. But then 413.452 says simply that a satellite stockpile is a valid delivery point, without placing any limit on where that satellite stockpile is located. Both cannot be fully correct.

By Richard Eitzen (Rbeitzen) on Sunday, April 04, 2021 - 06:32 pm: Edit

(413.452) EPs delivered to another empire via (435.0) could be
delivered to a satellite stockpile in that empire’s original territory.
This could include a satellite stockpile established for that spe-
cific purpose by the arriving EPs.

*Clearly the Feds can send EPs to a Kzinti satellite stockpile. This rule is more specific than 435.0, thereby overriding the capital to capital limitation of 435.0 to allow transport of EPs as specified in 413.452.