Archive through June 07, 2021
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Archive through June 07, 2021
I've got pickets in 0118 and 0419, and hold planets 0417 and 0519. But Sam has Hydran pickets of his own in the right places (partly do to smart retreat choices) to keep supply open despite all Hydran provinces being captured or disrupted. Sam is strong in the area of economic warfare. He would put this to use effectively as a coalition player, I think, if he is this good defensively.
Coalition efforts in the ZTO were anemic. I knew I couldn't take 1704, but was hoping to get in a few licks. This fell far short of the goal, with poor rolls meaning the SB suffered zero SIDS, and the alliance taking only a few cripples while the Klingons got summarily spanked. (Hence only 2 rounds.) But, some days are like that. Even in Australia.
A7 Economics:
Kzinti had -7.05 EP, got 37 for a balance of 29.95. They built CV because they had FFF but no BC in the capital to convert. They repaired CC 2BC 2MEC 2CLE 2EFF 2FF in 1401 and offmap, and also the Z6M in 1704 (which they had to smuggle half an EP to do).
They've got 0.95 remaining.
Feds had 59, got 166 for a balance of 225. They built DN TG 3NCL 2FF FFE FRD, activated CL FF, converted CL->LSC, and repaired 9 ships near Kzinti space. They also put a 6th PDU in 2306 and upgraded the MB there to a BATS.
They've got 111 left over.
Hydrans had 0.375 (and 14.66 offmap) and received 43. They built DG 2HR 2DE 2PDU (Hydrax now has 15), repaired 2HR PGS DE offmap and 3SIDS HN in 0215 (the SB has still taken 2).
They've got 0.535 remaining, sitting offmap.
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Hydran space is going to be difficult to accomplish anything in. The Hydrans don't really have enough SEQs to threaten the mobile base going up in 0514 (they could probably force it, if they wanted to). But the Coalition has at least 7 maulers in the theatre, and doing so would pull a reserve forward. There's going to have be some thinking done before the Hydrans start moving.
Kzinti space is a lot more straightforward. There's a SB in 1707 with 2FRD stacked with it.
Jesting aside, the Kzinti (+Federation) have enough to pin all the Coalition reserves and some, so they can pick their targets. The Coalition can't pin the Alliance out of 1001, and the MB there is being upgraded. The Kzinti did get a bit of a bloody nose last turn trying to stop the base from being deployed, but a fresh load of fighters will hopefully do the trick.
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I don't really think that I'm that good at holding territory - I don't think it's worth it to fight over BATS or minors most of the time, so I end up ceding more than I need to. Incidentally, this means I'm not that good a Coalition player (perhaps I'll demonstrate that to you in a rematch later...). Karl's economy has been strong all game because he's much better at taking and holding territory than I am at disrupting his control. I just look like I know what I'm doing because Karl's aggressive deployment means I have more opportunities for making moves.
The Coalition haven't attacked the Feds and as of A7 have not captured any capitals. You're doing pretty well imo.
I'll second; your handling of the ZTO in regards to defense of Kzintai has been superb. It's been my opinion that the Kzinti have to be agressive attacking coalition positions on their turn, and you've shown that true this game.
The Hydrans are in rough shape. I should say that Richard's expedition gambit, even though it failed to reach the feds, delayed the fall of Hydrax at least 1-2 turns. That's huge in that it helps take pressure off of the Zin, as well as Klingon posturing for a Fed invasion.
Partly the expedition itself was my fault for forgetting to set up, but still it's an idea to keep in mind for future games.
The Alliance has some choices to make this turn though, that's for sure.
Don't the Feds get full econ this turn because they entered the war early (due to the early attack on the Marquis deployment zone?)
No, they are operating under the limited war rules.
A7 was relatively quick. Only 15 rounds of combat - and many of them had small compots.
There was only one fight in Hydran space, which consisted of a single CU getting blown up so a TG could make it to safety.
The Feds and the Lyrans fought 4 rounds over 1802, crippling all the Lyrans and almost all of the Feds. The Federation directed crippled ships on 3 of those rounds and the Lyrans no longer control the planet, so I'm counting it as a significant win. It's not like the Federation are worried about repair costs, and Coalition repair facilities are pretty saturated.
The Federation also pushed the Coalition off of 1502 and 1202, but each of those was a single round battle with not much in the way of casualties.
In 1707, the Coalition fought 2 approach rounds (the Kzinti didn't have to, but the Coalition didn't have enough uncrippled ships to hold them off anyway). Then the Kzinti fought a couple rounds at the starbase, killing 2FRD and dealing 2SIDS. Total Klingon repair cost in the hex is now at 30.5 EP. This battle probably keeps 1704 up for another turn.
Finally, in 1001, the Kzinti fought 3 approach battles - narrowly missing the damage needed to break through on the first two. Three 6s in the first round at the base (the Lyran MB there was getting upgraded to a BATS) meant that they could blow the base and leave. The Kzinti battle tug narrowly escaped destruction in pursuit.
Total casualties:
Kzinti cripples: TG-B 2CC 2BC 3MEC CM CL 2FF EFF
Kzinti dead: DD DF CLE EFF
Federation cripples: 2NCL 2DD 5FF
Hydran dead: CU
Lyran cripples: BC CC TGC-S 2CW 5DW 3CL FF
Lyran dead: CW DW MB(Upgrading)
Klingon cripples: D7C D6D 3D5 2F5L 3F5 3E4 2SIDS
Klingon dead: 2FRD AD5 F5E f5
After C8 Econ, with the Lyrans spending 46.5 on repairs and the Klingons spending 40, there are still crippled Coalition ships which would cost 186 EP total to repair!
Total Coalition income was 294.6 EP; total Coalition repair capacity is 110 EP (not counting bases south of 18xx which are difficult for the Klingons to use). The Alliance strategy of denying repair is bearing much fruit. Compare the Kzinti cripples: 51 EP to repair, 22 EP of repair available (Marquis' SB can't count on having the EPs to repair ships).
The Coalition is slightly behind in available ships (when fighters are counted) in both theatres. Plus, the Alliance only has starbases left and the Coalition has lots of space to defend. ~110 Coalition hulls against ~80 Hydran hulls (plus fighters). ~90 Coalition hulls against ~80 Alliance hulls in Kzinti space.
Y172 Spring, Coalition turn 8
Lyran Economy
Survey
Prev Total: 61
New Roll: 12
Total: 73
Command Points: 9+1=10
Prev Turn:
0 Field Repair C7
2.25 salvage (CW, DW)
0.35 old treasury
2.55 remaining (end of A5)
Income
Maj Planets(9):45
Min Planets(10):30
On-Map Provinces(16):32
Off-Map Provinces(7):14
Captured NZ(10 hexes):2
Captured Provinces:6 (0701, 0901, 0803, 1104, 1203, 0714)
Captured Planets(1): (1001)
Total: 130
New Treasury: 132.55
Production [67.5]
8 CA sub DN
10+6 CV sub CA (3fff)
6 CWE sub CW
15 CWx3
6 DWS sub DW
5 DWE sub DW
4 DW
7.5 FFx3
Repairs [46.5]
6 (0906) CW, DWS, 2 DD, FF
1.5 (0502) CW
1.5 (0504) CW
1.5 (0705) CW
8 (0408) CA, TGA, 2 D7
8 (0608) 4 D5
6 (0511) 3 D7
8 (OM) 3 CW, DWS, 2 FF
2 (0109) 2 FF
1.5 (0707) DW
1.5 (0809) DW
1 (0411) FF
Conversions [5]
5 CA to STT 0408
Overbuilds [0]
Other Production [12]
12 transfer to Klingons (tribute payment)
131 total expenses
1.55 remaining
Klingon Economy Y172 Spring
Survey
Prev Total:60
New Roll: 5
Total: 65
B10
Prev Total:28
New Roll: 3
Total: 31
Command Points: 9+1=10
End CT4 Treasury: 33.475
Field Repair C7: -10
Salvage: 14.1 (2D7C, D6M, AD5, F5L, F5E, 3F5)
Drone Bombardment: -2.4
Allied delivery: +20
Start treasury: 55.175
Income
Maj Planets(9):45
Min Planets(15):45
On-Map Provinces(26):52
Off-Map Provinces(3):6
Captured NZ(28 hexes):5.6
Captured planets (2 min, 1maj):4 (1504, 1506, 0718)
Captured Prov(7):7 (1404, 0515, 0716, 0719, 0917, 1015, 1118)
Total C3 income:164.6
Total:55.175+164.6= 219.775 new treasury
Production [111.5]
16 C8
8 TGA sub D7
10 D6M sub D6
7 D5V sub D5 (6fff)
6 AD5 sub D5
35 D5x7
8 F5L x2
8 F5E sub F5x2
6 F5x2
7.5 E4 x3
Repair [40]
8 (1509) 2 D5, 5 F5
8 (1707) D6D, 4D5
24 (1411) 2 D7, D6, D6V, 2D6D, 3 D5, F5L, 6 F5
Activate [2]
2 D6 x2 (8 remain)
Conversion [27]
1 DF5 to F5E 1509
2+12 D5 to D5V 1509*
2 D7 to D7C 1707
5 D6 (activated) to D6M (major) 1411
3 D6 (activated) to D6D (minor) 1411
2 D7 (repaired) to D7C (minor) 1411
Other Expenses [15]
5 B10 work
10 FRD
195.5 total expenses
219.775 - 195.5 = 24.275 EP Treasury
I'm sure Karl will give more detail on the turn, but now that the Kzinti and the Hydrans don't have any more PDUs not in the capital itself, I have a few things I want to say about capital defenses.
What is it with Coalition players wanting to direct PDUs - especially over the minors? If you're going to take the hex, you're going to have to fight over the starbase (at the least) until the Alliance gives up or you SIDS it. You might as well just drop damage and let the Alliance take it or preferentially direct ships because the Alliance doesn't like losing CAs early on.
Now, I get that sometimes you're just there to strip PDUs and devastate planets, and so this doesn't always apply. But very frequently the Alliance doesn't want to take ship damage and so will blow their own PDUs if you just let it drop. And if the Alliance wants to fight to prevent you from devastating the planets, well, effectively open-space battles can only be in the Coalition's favour.
Granted, the Alliance usually has a lot of fighters that can soak up damage, but wouldn't it be preferable to just kill ships with a ~18 compot disadvantage even if it means not devastating the minor? Maybe I'm just too cautious an Alliance player, but if I'm losing an RN per turn in exchange for a D7 or something, it's not going to take me too long to just let you have the planet.
To be clear, this isn't just you Karl - some of my other Coalition opponents have done the same thing and I don't get it.
The simple answer is COMPOT, if there are 20 PDU, that's 180 additional COMPOT (up to 90 damage) raining on your fleet [even though one can only remove 36 per Round (unless using SAF/Marines)] ...
No, I don't mean over the capital itself - there, there's no realistic choice but to direct the PDUs. I mean more - we're fighting over Hypnokerm, a minor in the Hydramax system. I have 64 compot including the PDUs because all my big ships are fighting elsewhere. The Coalition can:
1) Direct PDUs.
2) Direct a small ship.
3) Drop damage.
With a ~20 compot edge, the Hydrans can't keep fighting like this for long. So the only sensible thing for them to do is lose the PDUs, take the rest on the planet, and do a little damage to the Coalition. Even if the Coalition directs a FF, take the rest on the PDUs and don't fight there again.
If the Coalition drops damage over a capital system planet that has remaining PDUs, I can't imagine ever taking the damage on the PDUs themselves. You take the fighters as damage, replace them from FCRs or aux carriers as long as you can maybe, but you cripple ships before losing PDUs.
I mean, query whether you even put up a line over a minor. But if you put up a line, you're doing it with the intention of crippling what you have to to keep the PDUs alive until they commit to directing them.
Well that's fascinating. I never would guessed that some Alliance players would do that, as I can't imagine voluntarily taking ship damage over a minor. I just think of it as 28 damage (2PDU+planet) to take that doesn't need to be repaired to hurt the attacking fleet a little.
Partly I think it depends on whether the coalition is going for the capital planet THIS TURN or whether it's just a raid.
If you're going for the capital planet immediately, then you WANT the alliance to kill fighters here and cripple ships to save the PDU. That's the best outcome for the coalition because it means those fighters and ships aren't available at the capital.
If you're just raiding, then using 28 damage to kill an FF and 16 fighters means you've killed an FF and taken some real damage to do it rather than accomplishing your objective by directing two PDU.
re: Capital Assault Strategies
I agree with Douglas. If I am bringing in a strong capital assault level fleet into the Hydran capital and I decide to start on the minor planets as a warm-up, I would love it if the Hydrans decided to put a line up and consume fighters and cripple ships to oppose. It's a favorable trade facing the Hydran fleet with only +18 from the 2xPDUs on the minor. Blast them all day long.
Once I've bloodied the Hydran fleet and burned some of their fighters, I can move on to another minor, or a major, or if the Hydrans have bled themselves sufficiently then just convert into full capital planet assault mode. And the Hydrans would then at that point wish they'd saved every bit of their fleet and fighters to hold the critically important capital planet and shipyard.
So the strategy in this case is situational based upon the relative strength of the alliance and coalition fleets.
With a smaller raiding fleet, I'd recommend just DDing the PDUs, DDing the planet to devastate, and then getting out. Conserve your raiding fleet elements by limiting the number of rounds of fighting, while accomplishing your mission objectives (degrading the fixed defenses and economy of the Hydrans).
--Mike
"Partly I think it depends on whether the coalition is going for the capital planet THIS TURN or whether it's just a raid."
100% this if it's really early.
However, "saving ships for the shipyard" isn't a thing once you have a fleet; the Coalition is going to kill the PDUs, kill the Starbase, and only then fight your fleet. If you have ships left over after the Starbase goes, you would have been better off at least fighting over the minor planet PDUs.
Fighter hanger space freed up by fighters lost fighting over non-capital planets makes the job of killing capital planet PDUs easier, since some homeless capital PDU fighters then have a place to go and don't create as many overage points.
And if the Hydran has chosen to oppose a minor, and the Coalition isn't DDing the PDUs on the minor, the Coalition may very well be DDing or mauling the biggest killable ship defending the minor. And that biggest killable ship might have been useful defending the capital planet itself, or later in the game.
I think it largely depends upon the strength, composition, and depth of the fleets in the hex.
--Mike
Graham: The Alliance probably shouldn't cripple their entire fleet defending the capital. Especially the Hydrans, as they may be out of supply and have to fight to get offmap. It's easy to have 2 or 3 turns where the Kzinti can't project any kind of threat because they don't have enough ships, and that gives the Klingons too much breathing room when they're starting their attack on the Feds.
Plus, "kill PDUs, kill the Starbase" only applies if they decide to SIDS the SB - which only applies if you have enough fleet left to win just dropping damage. If you're crippling your fleet to defend minors, I'll just drop damage over the starbase until you've got no choice but to take SIDS. Forcing the Coalition to SIDS the SB (by virtue of a larger fleet) saves you at least 108 damage.
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I've had the opportunity to direct fighters off PDUs over a minor, reducing minus points at the capital (there was no defending fleet at the minor). There is a lot of room for variation based on the ships attacking, but I feel PDUs should be directed less in any case.
Anyway, back to our (ir)regularly scheduled mayhem...
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Kzinti space was anticlimactic. The Coalition redevastated all but Kzintai in 1401 and ran away after a declined approach in 1704. There were 4 rounds of combat in 1502 where a Kzinti force pinned a bunch of crippled Lyrans (and a few other Lyrans that came to escort them out), ending with the good guys keeping the planet and the Lyrans going home.
Hydran space saw maulers exchanged for DGs and a few more SIDS (now 5 total) in 0215. The rest of the Hydran capital (except Hydrax) was devastated and 4/15 PDUs stripped from Hydrax. Unfortunately for the Klingons, a roll of 6 scored 117 damage and killed 6D5, with a D6M and D6S cleaned up in pursuit.
Kzinti cripples: SF
Kzinti dead: 2FF
Federation cripples: 3FF
Federation dead: FF
Hydran cripples: DE
Hydran dead: 3DG RN
Hydran bases: 4SIDS(0215) 2PDU(Hypnokerm) 4PDU(Anthraxan) 4PDU(Hydrax)
Lyran cripples: 3CW FF
Lyran dead: 2STT
Klingon cripples: C8 D7C D6S 2D5 F5
Klingon dead: 4D6M D6S 6D5 2F5E(One captured by the Kzinti)
Another minor thing, those PDUs also have EW from AO ...
Yes, since we are using advanced EW, it turns out it is a major consideration on my part...
You know, that's a good point. Hadn't considered the EW consequences. Still think it's a mistake, but maybe a little less than I had.
Sam
I think the points have been well covered and it's one of those things - sometimes it's good to kill the PDU's and sometimes it's good to let the defender kill them.
One aspect not mentioned though is perhaps 'when to do it' - I have seen more than 1 capital assault, which is 'probably a raid' get upgraded during the fight to a full assault and sometimes back to a raid - or a full assault downgraded to a raid "if the dice go wrong" - which has sometimes meant, the way the battles was done leave some of the minor planets still with defences - because the attacker gets too beaten up over the Capital to then stay 1 more round.
So by doing the side battles earlier - and directing, it ensures they are not forgotten about 
i.e. - I wish I had directed on those 2 PDU's instead of that Escort Frigate (as you will get 2 Ep's MORE income on your turn AND get to benefit from the PDU's next turn....).
Good also to see a 6 rolled by defender in a huge compot battle - it almost never seems to happen!
Just like this turn, the Hydrans rolling a 6 on the first round over Hydrax definitely cut short the capital assault...
Similarly the Kzintai assault a few turns ago got downgraded to "just a raid" when the coalition consistently rolled poorly over the capital.
Not to say Sam has had all the good dice. I rolled particularly well at the 2nd SB this turn, bagging 3DG and 4SIDS. But back to the point at hand, there are so many variables going into a capital assault that the attacker has to be flexible. That unfortunately keeps the defender guessing as well, making it an elaborate game of rock/paper/scissors