For Paul:

LGE's are raiding (and were in the Old Colonies Squadron before that, as I recall). THR was indeed overlooked.

Kzinti have 3 survey ships. The 12 wasn't bad, but it didn't make up for the multiple single digit rolls in the last several turns. That's all.

By Graham Cridland (Grahamcridland) on Monday, May 24, 2021 - 11:57 am: Edit

Trent successfully avoided three of my nine reserves this turn, is extricating the BG Frederick and TF Radey (the 4th fleet and 4th fleet cripples, respectively), and will take back a good quantity of Hydran and Kzinti space.

The situation in Kzinti Space deserves a note:

In 1001 I have 3 PDU, 6 SEQ (Lyrans, and not big ones; CL's and FF's).
In 1802 I have an MB and the 1st Klingon Reserve (the B10+[D6U+2xAD5+F5E]+D6S, etc.), plus a Lyran SC and FF that can react in.

In 1401 I have two Lyran reserves that can react either way, both 12 ships but not gigantic, led by BC's.
In 1105 I have a very strong reserve (the Lyran 1st) with DN,STL,[CVD+CWE+CWE+DWE],CWS, etc.

Trent has 50 SEQ + 54 fighters (The Fleet, really) in 1001 and 40 + 24 fighters (4 CV groups and FF's) in 1802.

I spent a long time thinking about this. Obviously the Lyran 1st Reserve goes to 1001, since it can't reach 1802 anyway. But where do the reserves from the capital go?

If both go to 1802, I certainly keep the planet (although he can no doubt destroy the Lyran MB if he so chooses) but 1001 certainly falls. If all three reserves go to 1001, with three PDUs I probably keep the planet? (Maybe...) But either way, the Kzinti can fight an approach or retreat from one, and retrograde offmap, taking no losses and demolishing the planet I don't choose to defend.

So in the end I chose to split the reserves, probably choosing to lose both planets but getting a chance to inflict significant damage on both Kzinti fleets (I may yet save 1802; I think 1001 is probably lost if he focuses down the PDUS but I should be able to do some damage.)

Of note, the Kzinti replacement SY pops up on AT11 and produces beginning AT12. So that's a thing that is coming.

By Graham Cridland (Grahamcridland) on Tuesday, May 25, 2021 - 01:58 am: Edit

A power outage today closed Vassal, so we will be down for a bit while we rebuild the map state from the last save (during combat on CT10).

Oof.

By Graham Cridland (Grahamcridland) on Friday, June 04, 2021 - 03:51 pm: Edit

We have recovered from the power outage but are still moving a bit slow, mostly because I have been working still on the weekend evenings we might have snuck in a combat hex or two.

The war on the map right now looks like it is going swimmingly for the Coalition. They have conquered a lot of Federation space, and are likely to get most of the rest of it as the Romulans invade. The Federation has a lot of cripples to fix and while Earth isn't in immediate danger, due to the Coalition's cripples and the Romulans' need to obtain a supply point within 6, the Federation is definitely in a certain amount of trouble.

This is kind of misleading about the war generally, though...

In Kzinti space, the Coalition is actually significantly outnumbered and while the Lyrans (the Klingons that were helping with defense mostly having departed for the Federation) can win a lot of pitched battles with their scouting and COMPOT density advantage, they are likely to find themselves on the losing side of pincount games and therefore losing some planets/provinces on the Alliance turns unless the Coalition (meaning the Klingons) reinforce them signficantly. Worse yet, the Kzinti are about to have a shipyard again, and have truckloads of EPs arriving for several turns to come.

In Hydran space, the joint Klingon/Lyran fleet still outnumbers the Hydrans, but only by about 50 SEQ (20 SEQ of which is currently crippled and another 20 of which is currently on garrison duty.) So unless the Hydrans are going to be allowed to counterattack, more Coalition ships will be needed there soon as well.

...and on top of that, on CT12 the Coalition will have an estimated 110 EP's of combined repairs to figure out, on top of starbase upgrades which (should otherwise be) happening in 2305, 0416, and 1401.

So it is going to be interesting, especially with exhaustion looming. The Coalition isn't going to have a war chest going into Turn 16...

By Graham Cridland (Grahamcridland) on Monday, June 07, 2021 - 08:45 pm: Edit

Full update to come, but preliminary pre AT11 reviews of retrogrrade movement appear to suggest the Coalition will be paying 150+ EPs for repairs on CT12, not 110, after figuring in the Romulans' repairs from SB3611.

This will make the Coalition's intention of upgrading three Starbases (1401,2305,0416) somewhat untenable if they want to, you know, make some ships.

By Graham Cridland (Grahamcridland) on Saturday, June 12, 2021 - 09:31 pm: Edit

To Stewart:

I'll ask. I'm assuming that's a stray "3" and that the Hydrans have 11.75 FFF held.

Edit:

Indeed, a stray spreadsheet entry, probably carried over from a prior turn. 1 FFF spent, 11.75 left.

By Graham Cridland (Grahamcridland) on Sunday, June 13, 2021 - 03:23 am: Edit

For Mike:

Yeah, 2306 is a pita. Unfortunately, I got a bit greedy and triggered the BATS upgrade on the one turn I didn't have the pincount to keep the Federation out. Next turn, my repairs will be back, last turn (okay the MB was set up last turn so it couldn't have gone to BATS, but still) the Feds hadn't repaired their cripples from SB 2204. This turn? Trent can make trouble. I guess I didn't expect him to completely ignore the Romulans, but I probably should have. The Klingons are closer to Earth (and the Gorns are coming.)

I think the Hydrans are going to do a fair amount of damage as well, although a lot of it will be of the "I kill an FF and delete a captured province from your balance sheet." variety. Which the Coalition can accept.

The Kzintis also chose the turn when the STL is "down" (in 0404 getting repaired) to hit the capital. They can't take it but they can probably kill the other Klingon BATS upgrade going on if they are willing to pay the price.

By Mike Erickson (Mike_Erickson) on Sunday, June 13, 2021 - 11:35 am: Edit

The Feds really have to prioritize the Klingons and deprioritize the Romulans, based upon the pace of the Klingon offensive. It's easy to think that the Romulans will "take the pressure off the Klingons", where in my experience the Klingons are the superpower carry and their strong offensive push is what draws in alliance resources and gives room for the Roms to manuever. So the Klingons really take pressure off the Romulans. If there isn't enough Klingon pressure the Feds/Gorns can go beat up the Roms, and then those Fed/Gorn forces will later show up in the Klingon theater.

It's all about establishing the right pace of the Klingon offensive. Not so fast as to be reckless/wasteful/over extending , but not so slow as to let the Feds have too much breathing room to reorganize their forces. It's a delicate balance!

--Mike

By Graham Cridland (Grahamcridland) on Tuesday, June 15, 2021 - 12:34 pm: Edit

Interim AT11 Combat update:

In 2306, the Federation paid a heavy price in scout and cruiser hulls to kill the upgrading mobile base, bagging something like D6D,F5E, MB--(BATS) for a few 4 point scouts and cruisers. This would be more exciting if the Feds didn't make 3 4 point scouts a turn as a matter of course, anyway.

Elsewhere in Fed space the Klingons gave up frigates (and a D6) in small fights, retreating where they could and giving up a few provinces and planet 2509.

In 1401, over three rounds of approach and three rounds over Kzintai, the Kzinti got absolutely torched, but succeeded in killing 3xPDU and MB---(BATS) there as well, meaning that the Klingons are out 46 EPs of static defenses on top of the few ships the Lyrans lost defending them. With pursuit still to come, the Kzinti are down about eight hulls including a CV+3xEFF group. Fighting uphill into 6 PDU + MB and a bunch of Lyran DN's is no joke. But the Kzinti can now look forward to holding the big Lyran fleet here for a long time to come as over the past two turns they have demolished the defenses of 1802, 1401 (3 PDU left), and 1001.

The Lyrans still get to pursue.

By Paul Howard (Raven) on Tuesday, June 15, 2021 - 12:47 pm: Edit

The Kzinti have to stop the Coalition get a SB in 1401.... and so paying half the price now rather than the full price later is always good value.

I assume there is no SB in 1401 (IIRC, you redid a battle when you got the owed points wrong - which stopped the BATS being converted to a SB?)

(If there is - perhaps the Kzinti should be going everywhere else...… as the Coalition always have to defend 1401 in strength)

By Graham Cridland (Grahamcridland) on Tuesday, June 15, 2021 - 01:11 pm: Edit

No Starbase in 1401; this is the second time the Kzinti have stopped an upgrade (previously it was the BATS--->SB upgrade, this time they didn't wait and killed the MB---BATS upgrade.)

The amount of overcrippling both sides performed in 2306 and 1401 approach battles was bordering on absurd. Of course, in the third round of approach at 1401 this suddenly stopped (since most of the points would have been wasted on outlying systems, as we learned last time.)

There isn't a lot stopping the Kzinti from doing this forever, unfortunately; they can't be pinned out and they will start building ships again next turn. Their fleet is definitely depleted, but given that I can't take advantage of that offensively on my turns (there's nothing left to attack!) they can just hang out in the offmap and wait for opportunities.

[Edit: Trent had killed the upgrade on AT9 anyway; redoing the minus points just made it a lot less painful because he shot it off the first round.]

By Paul Howard (Raven) on Tuesday, June 15, 2021 - 03:13 pm: Edit

Graham

The Kzinti Off Map area is probably 50% of the reason the Coalition goes for 617 over 1401... if they are not going for both!

It's impossible to pin them out - and very difficult to ensure they can't kill a BATS being upgraded.

(I just about succeeded in my game with William - with the bulk of the good Kzinti ships in Federation space, his assault force needed a lucky roll once he got to the planets - and didn't get it - 1401 is now pretty safe with a Lyran SB with PF's and 9 Lyran PDU's with PF's.

End of Game assault is probably only way to take it.)

By Graham Cridland (Grahamcridland) on Tuesday, June 15, 2021 - 03:27 pm: Edit

I mean, I'm okay with the situation, really. I built the MB in full expectation that he would probably kill it before it was a starbase. But he has to come on the map and fight awful fights (The Lyrans were rocking a 130 line -on approach-) and get lots of ships killed that the Kzinti will need a lot of support from the Feds to replace.

I've already gotten to the point where the Lyrans can pretty much hold off the Kzinti without help and with some of their forces (smaller fleet, but significant) in Hydran space. The Kzinti can probably pin reserves, stretch defenses and take some provinces + 1802 or 1001 every turn if they are willing to sacrifice frigates to do it. But fighting in Kzintai to win? Not anytime soon.

By Mike Erickson (Mike_Erickson) on Tuesday, June 15, 2021 - 06:03 pm: Edit

Just count up all the relevant EPs for the ships, repairs, and base and if the Coalition is winning the trade then by all means roll out the red carpet and allow the Kzinti to keep beating their head against the wall.

It sounds like the Kzinti are somewhat in a darned if they do darned if they don't situation. If they go after the upgrading bases they lose the trade hard. If they don't, then they allow the Coalition to eventually reach full capital COMPOT over in 1401 and they'll likely never get it back lacking a complete Coalition collapse in other areas later in the game.

--Mike

By Graham Cridland (Grahamcridland) on Tuesday, June 15, 2021 - 06:28 pm: Edit

Mike:

That's true, but it's also true for me. I have to leave a fleet more than equivalent to the Kzinti fleet in Kzinti space to defend all the things I need to defend, unless I can get static defenses up sufficient to make up the difference (A Starbase over 1401 being the most obvious requirement.)

So I'm probably stuck leaving about 100 SEQ idle on 1001/1202/1401/1802 for the foreseeable future.

By Timothy Linden (Timlinden) on Wednesday, June 16, 2021 - 03:28 pm: Edit

Leaving that sort of fleet that essentially keeps the Kzinti offmap is worth it. You get the income from the on map and they do not. You also keep that front solidly in Kzinti space. You do not really need those ships elsewhere - just build more.

While trying to build defenses on 1401 and whacking the Kzinti fleet when they come blow those up can work, another option is to build those up on safer locations, such as 1202 and 1502 instead. Those you can with care pin out the Kzinti and just get SB's built on. And then that lessens the useful number of targets of opportunity for the Kzinti. And also give you local repair points that are not FRD's that could be destroyed. That may not free up much if any ships, but does make containing them easier and perhaps less costly.

Tim.

By Mike Erickson (Mike_Erickson) on Thursday, June 17, 2021 - 07:10 pm: Edit

Although the temptation is great to try and send as many of the occupying ships off to reinforce the Fed front and perhaps press forward further/faster, the maintenance of a strong occupation force in Kzinti space is critical to victory.

First, if you keep the occupying force adequately large, you avoid successful local Kzinti counterattacks that can disrupt the area and then require detaching ships from the Fed front to restabilize. If that happens, you then usually have to leave a larger number of ships behind in Kzinti space anyways to properly occupy afterwards. So you don't really gain anything and can potentially give the Feds a nice little strategic slowdown or pause to reorganize their forces. And the mushrooming Fed economy will use any time it is given to good advantage to strengthen itself.

Second, as Tim points out you get the economic points from the area and the Kzinti don't. And bear in mind this is a double whammy since the Kzinti would potentially get the *undevastated* point values from the planets if they could keep them or get them back, not just the lower devastated EP. So you deny the Kzinti even more than the Coalition reaps.

If the garrison duty just seems tedious and the Kzinti guerrilla warfare feels like a rash that you just can't seem to get rid of, consider carefully calculating the total economic benefit from the occupation. Calculate those total EPs as ships that the Kzinti paid for that went right into your fleets. Consider making a separate fleet box for those ships the Kzinti were nice enough to buy for you. And every turn that fleet box of Kzinti purchases for you gets larger. And every turn those are ships that are on the Coalition side, and not on the Kzinti side. And, just like above, if the Kzinti kept or could win back some of their territory, they would get more EPs out of it than the Coalition would. So the number of ships you deny the Kzinti is even larger than the ships the Coalition receives.

For me at least, that helps to keep the high value of the Kzinti occupation mission very clearly in focus, and makes it mentally easier and more fun to put in place and run a strong occupation force. A well managed Kzinti occupation really helps you to win the game.

--Mike

By Graham Cridland (Grahamcridland) on Friday, June 18, 2021 - 11:45 am: Edit

Well, right now, having reinforced the Kzinti front over the last couple of turns and rechecked the Hydran front, I outnumber the Kzinti (and outgun them by a huge stretch).

I outnumber the Hydrans and probably outgun them depending (they have a better first battle line, because Hydrans, but a lot of their numbers are FF's).

Actually taking the capital is probably out without transferring big numbers (and probably most of the Lyran DNs from 1401) down there.

By Mike Erickson (Mike_Erickson) on Friday, June 18, 2021 - 08:36 pm: Edit

That's the disadvantage to delaying the Hydran capital assault. Once the Fed front gets rolling, its often difficult to detach enough Lyran or Klingon ships to really squish the Hydrans. Detaching enough ships to win might leave the Kzinti front critically weakened, or introduce a strategic pause on the Fed front. If the Coaliton were to continue heavy fighting on the Fed front and also assault the Hydran capital, the simultaneous repair costs can be overwhelming (yielding another strategic pause). Also, after a number of turns the Hydrans usually have ample opportunity to strengthen the capital defenses up to 20 PDUs on the home planet, as well as build some more fleet depth. It can be an expensive nut to crack at that point.

Can you post the current Hydran fixed defenses and fleet? I'd love to see exactly how strong the capital is. Also, how many EPs are flowing into the Hydran capital at this point? I think you mentioned earlier that part of your strategy in that theater was to cut off the capital hex from EPs as much as possible?

--Mike

By Graham Cridland (Grahamcridland) on Saturday, June 19, 2021 - 12:20 pm: Edit

A little hard to tell right now because the fleet is scattered, but based on the Empire Ships tab in Vassal, and net of POL's and auxes and the like, it looks like the Hydrans have something like 165 ships (and 200+ fighter factors) available to defend the Capital.

The Coalition has over 200 ships in the theater of operations, most of them on 0416 defending the Starbase upgrade going on there. The Hydrans have not attacked it on AT11, so that Lyran starbase will complete on CT12, as a companion for the Klingon Starbase in 0615.

In theory, that would be a good time to attack the Capital. But the Coalition has expended a lot of effort cutting off the Capital from the offmap over and over, so it would almost seem silly to attack it NOW, when the Hydrans have all their ships back on map and able to retrograde there.

By Graham Cridland (Grahamcridland) on Sunday, June 20, 2021 - 05:24 pm: Edit

Correction:

The BATS upgrade completes and the SB upgrade begins on CT12 in hex 0416.

By Mike Erickson (Mike_Erickson) on Tuesday, June 22, 2021 - 11:14 pm: Edit

I think with that large a Hydran fleet defending the capital, and with only 200 Coalition ships in theater, it would be a tough assault to win. I'll assume there are 16-20 PDUs on the Hydran capital planet which when combined with the SB will make for some brutal rounds.

It might be better to just continue to box them in as much as possible.

Also, Graham, I was reading some archived messages about the earlier part of this game, and I hadn't realized you were playing against your son. Congrats! I think I let my kids get too old before introducing them to F&E and it hasn't really taken. I'm envious!

--Mike

By Graham Cridland (Grahamcridland) on Wednesday, June 23, 2021 - 12:46 am: Edit

Trent is eleven, and while he's perfectly capable of the technical reading we sometimes have to walk through the refer-to-this-which-refers-to-that together, because he'll just read the rule and try to apply it, which doesn't work on things like slow unit retreats. Fortunately, after you get it right once it's usually muscle memory. This is both of our first try, and we have done some very weird things (I actually subbed CL for CW on turn one as Lyrans... what?)

I have made clear I think that I really have no intention of taking the Hydran Capital anytime soon (I wouldn't have built two starbases two hexes away if I did.) My intention is to permanently keep all their EPs (I think it's up to like... 45 now?) stuck in the off-map, since abandoning his tug pallets to go get them really might give me a shot in 0617, and win the war elsewhere.

[It isn't quite that many ships; now that everything is retrograded he has somewhere around 160 ships and as many fighters. But the story remains the same: Fighting uphill against a line of PAL [Form] + TGS [Scout] + [IC+LNH-E+LNH-E+AH+AH]+[3xHR+3xLN]+HR+HR or something (which doesn't even let me shoot real cruisers!) while he has the COMPOT to direct a DN on the line every turn... not appealing.]

Just exactly which elsewhere I'll leave to the imagination. I have a plan, but Trent reads this, so -

By Graham Cridland (Grahamcridland) on Wednesday, June 23, 2021 - 11:32 am: Edit

By the way, we are into combat on CT12:

the Hydrans gave up a frigate and allowed the Klingons to reoccupy all space outside the capital.

The Klingons lost a D6S in the scout box when the Feds rolled a "6", bagging a CA in return, and retreated after approach to major planet 2708.

Lines are building over 2610, and everyone is putting up cruisers...

By Mike Erickson (Mike_Erickson) on Tuesday, June 29, 2021 - 10:50 pm: Edit

The ship counts look roughly correct. It's always a big bummer when the Fed seq gets to the point where they can begin to really effectively pin the Coalition advance.

Can u post the most recent map?

--Mike