Thomas wrote:
>>Ahmad, No foreign escorts for any carrier period. See (515.0).>>

Ahmad is suggesting that the Feds gain control of Gorn escorts, convert them to Fed ships (as if captured); (515.541) indicates that escorts must be of the same empire as the rest of the group. If a ship is captured and converted, it becomes the empire of the capturing and converting empire.

I mean, I guess that might be handy? Seems awfully expensive for a minimal compot edge. That being said, I don't think there is a legal option here.

Sam wrote:
>>Feds to the Kzinti? The Kzinti don't get a 4EW scout other than scout tugs until Y175. And while the Feds can operate in Kzinti space, they can't operate out of the Kzinti offmap.>>

Why can't they operate out of the Kzinti off map? Especially if adopted?

Paul wrote:
>>There was an optionable/Balance point rule IIRC to increase the number of ships provided by the Klingons to the Romulans - but I think that's it.>>

The Klingons can certainly send ships to Romulan space and then Romulans can convert them to Romulan ships (where allowed as normal conversions). Other than maybe a few TGB>KRTs, however, it seems generally not worth the effort.

By Peter Bakija (Bakija) on Tuesday, June 08, 2021 - 04:39 pm: Edit

John wrote:
>>Klingon TGA to TGB, Kzinti TGC to TGT, and Lyran TGC to TGP are all legal conversions, but is there a reason why anyone would ever do so? At least in the base game, I haven't been able to come up with one.>>

There generally isn't a reason to ever do this. I don't think I have ever done such a conversion in any game of F+E, basic or expanded, ever.

That being said, it isn't completely impossible that, like, the Klingons will run out of TGA to use for battle tugs or something, and they hastily convert a TGB>TGA for a command ship that they happen to need this turn?

I mean, again, it is very unlikely to ever actually be important. But I could possibly see it being useful in a real corner case situation.

By Sam Benner (Nucaranlaeg) on Tuesday, June 08, 2021 - 09:29 pm: Edit

Peter wrote:
Why can't they operate out of the Kzinti off map? Especially if adopted?

Okay, yeah, you're right about that. But the Klingons would still love to buy some Lyran ships.

By Peter Bakija (Bakija) on Wednesday, June 09, 2021 - 07:20 am: Edit

Yeah, I suppose that'd make some sense. I guess that is why you can't do that then :-)

By Karl Mangold (Solomon) on Wednesday, June 09, 2021 - 12:17 pm: Edit

Well this "giving" ships to allies and having them convert to their own technology idea is intriguing. Though, I can't help but think that the idea of Lyrans giving away their surfeit of CR10 ships to the Klingons (so that no coalition fleet ever has to operate without one) would have a bigger effect than, say, converting an ally's better escorts to bump up carrier group COMPOT a few points

By Thomas Mathews (Turtle) on Wednesday, June 09, 2021 - 01:49 pm: Edit

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By Stewart Frazier (Frazikar3) on Wednesday, June 09, 2021 - 01:32 pm: Edit

When building PDU post PFs, can the PFs be built with the PDUs for transport (ie one tug delivers the PDU w/ PFs) or are the PFs separate?

If delivering a PDU w/ SEs to a planet with a PGB, are the SEs immediately available or just the PGB part (ie +3 of the PDU is added, not the SE strength)?

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By Thomas Mathews (Turtle) on Wednesday, June 09, 2021 - 01:51 pm: Edit

Note to the above reply. The same would be true for Kzinti PDUs with Heavy Fighters under (530.0).

By Mike Erickson (Mike_Erickson) on Wednesday, June 09, 2021 - 03:53 pm: Edit

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Well this "giving" ships to allies and having them convert to their own technology idea is intriguing. Though, I can't help but think that the idea of Lyrans giving away their surfeit of CR10 ships to the Klingons (so that no coalition fleet ever has to operate without one) would have a bigger effect than, say, converting an ally's better escorts to bump up carrier group COMPOT a few points

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By Stewart Frazier (Frazikar3) on Wednesday, June 09, 2021 - 07:05 pm: Edit

(441.112) is a PGB going to a PDU/PGB while (508.33) is PDU on PDU, looking for PDU on PGB ...

[Didn't think to look at (502.22)] ...

By Paul Howard (Raven) on Sunday, June 13, 2021 - 03:43 pm: Edit

Graham - reply from the Q&A topic

As per Thomas answer.

In Ship terms

If a D6U+AD5+AD5+F5E group loses the F5E, is has the light escort penalty slot applied so remains as 4 ships.

A D6U+AD5+F5E+F5E losing the outer F5E would become a 3 ship group.

On advantage of having a Light Escort as the extra escort!

By Peter Bakija (Bakija) on Tuesday, June 29, 2021 - 08:56 pm: Edit

Graham wrote:
>>(603.2)

When is the Romulan North Fleet released if the Gorns do not attack on turn 12 but the Romulans do attack on CT13?

603.2 seems to imply that the Romulan North Fleet is only released on a GORN attack.

I found a couple answers in the keyword search saying "Of course it's released if the Romulans attack the Gorns." This makes sense but isn't actually in the rules and I couldn't tell who was saying this (and the language had a lot of "I think..." in it)

I found Peter B. asking the same question directly, but I couldn't find the answer.>>

Yeah, I'm pretty sure it remains ambiguous. I think that the Romulan North Fleet is never released if the Gorn never enter Romulan territory?

By Graham Cridland (Grahamcridland) on Tuesday, June 29, 2021 - 09:36 pm: Edit

I mean, that appears to be the literal interpretation, right, even though it is completely goofy?

I mean, it's kind of transparent that the reason fleets remain "unreleased" in the General War scenario is that they are required to be there in the region to defend against aggression by that particular neighbor. The Klingons keep the East Fleet on station because they (quite reasonably) don't trust the Feds not to stab them in the back if the East Fleet is in 1401. The Feds keep some ships on the Gorn border for a while (and the Kzinti keep six ships near the Fed border) for the same reason.

It makes less sense to keep them on station if, you know, you're already fighting that same enemy in the same location.

What did you do in SCD2? (It's odd but that's one of the few GW games that made it to turn 12, let alone 34!) (Goes to check threads.)

[Edit: Looks like no one fought on that front until CT14, when the Romulans crossed the NZ... with some ships. Not clear what fleet.]

By Mike Erickson (Mike_Erickson) on Tuesday, June 29, 2021 - 10:31 pm: Edit

My read is that is indeed the black letter text. I concur that it doesn't seem to make much sense.

I have always played that if the Roms invade the Gorns (without the Gorns initiating hostilities) then the Rom fleet on the Gorn border is released, and usually leads the charge.

Surprised this ambiguity is in the 2010 base rulebook, as I imagine this question probably came up some time in the 24 years between 1986 and 2010?

Unless we are missing some other consideration, or a rule somewhere else?

--Mike

By Peter Bakija (Bakija) on Wednesday, June 30, 2021 - 07:53 am: Edit

Yeah, the rules are still a little wonky on that front. As the scenario specifically reads, the Romulan North Fleet is only released if the Gorn attack the Romulans (which, in the context of the rules, generally means "enters Romulan space"). So if the Gorn don't enter Romulan space, the North Fleet isn't released until T20 (the start of the next scenario chunk, "The Whirlwind", which indicates that all forces are released and can operate anywhere).

So as far as I can tell, if the Gorn just never enter Romulan space (and presumably help the Feds in Fed space, like under limited war), the Romulan North Fleet isn't released until T20.

I honestly don't remember what we did in SCD2. I think we just decided that the North Fleet was released on T13, when the Romulans were allowed to attack the Gorn?

[edit]: Yeah, I went back and found a note in the start of turn post that said we just decided that the North Fleet was released to attack the Gorn on T13. Which is contrary to the actual written rules still.

By Thomas Mathews (Turtle) on Monday, July 05, 2021 - 09:07 am: Edit

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By Stewart Frazier (Frazikar3) on Monday, July 05, 2021 - 08:12 am: Edit

Thomas, because the CLT IS a tug, but not a full one, it should be able to move an FRD but be a bit more limited, like 2 hexes for (421.21) on-map towing and 8 hexes for (421.3) strategic movement due to power vs a full tug (depends on whether one sees it as 2/3rds of a tug or less).

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By Chuck Strong (Raider) on Tuesday, July 06, 2021 - 05:03 am: Edit

Unless ADB has some SFU restriction on the Lyran CLT, FEDS has no issue with allowing the CLT to tow an FRD like an LTT.

By Richard Eitzen (Rbeitzen) on Tuesday, July 06, 2021 - 02:51 pm: Edit

On the other hand, the ship was (if I recall) stated to not be as useful as a real tug (in SFB). It's engines are those garbage 2x10 warp. Considering the Lyrans historically did not rely on this ship, despite having many CLs to convert may indicate that it could not do the FRD towing job (note that a SPH cannot, so there is precedent for this). I think maybe it was stated that it couldn't use normal tug pods though, so there is that as well.

By Lawrence Bergen (Lar) on Tuesday, July 06, 2021 - 03:11 pm: Edit

I agree with Richard above and feel like this ship should be limited to pull an FRD only if it has help or if you had two of them. Allowing them to operate as a full tug in this regard could be abusive at this point in the game timeline.

By Mike Erickson (Mike_Erickson) on Tuesday, July 06, 2021 - 06:26 pm: Edit

Regarding CLT, the Lyran MSB indicates in R11.A30:

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The ship could only carry pallets as inactive cargo (cargo pallets operated normally), and could only carry a single pallet at a time.

The ship remained in service for less than two years, as it was found that even with the added bracing the strain of carrying pallets required frequent refurbishment, which meant the ship was frequently out of service when it was needed most to augment the larger tugs. The ship was withdrawn from service and scrapped in Y159.

In Y170 the design was revisited at the same time as the light tactical transport (R11.33). The procurement of Klingon pods (R11.37) and their centerline mounting would have overcome many of the original problems, and the designers believed that any pods carried could be fully operational. (This involved a redesign of the pallet linkage system to enable power to be shared between the pod and the tug, which was not needed when carrying an inactive pallet.) Unfortunately, the light tactical transport was cheaper and easier to build, and Panther light cruisers were easily converted into Wildcat battlecruisers (R11.4), which made diverting new Panther light cruiser production to the tug role grossly inefficient. The Panther-T light transport design was again shelved.

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By fabio poli (Fabioz) on Sunday, July 18, 2021 - 01:21 pm: Edit

A question about the obsolete survey ships.
I've not understood clearly if the Hydran SR can be built before a new survey ship come out (168F and 169S to be clear).
Also, i suppore a obsolete survey ship can still be converted (SR to SRV).
Thanks for any answer.

By Paul Howard (Raven) on Sunday, July 18, 2021 - 01:27 pm: Edit

By fabio poli (Fabioz) on Sunday, July 18, 2021 - 01:05 pm: Edit


During a capital assault, whenever a ship part of the static fleet is crippled, where it goes?
I mean, by 511.54 the static fleet cannot leave the system assigned, but what happens if the player did'nt declare the system (or better the planet btw) as a "crippled yard" (just saying)?
For the same topic, where mobile's fleet cripples can go? (i suppose whatever they choose...).


Fabio - Crippled Shop remain in the system - and are allocated to planet with the highest amount of PDU's (511.58) - or largest, 'highest' in the list).

So a ship getting crippled in System B with a Major and Minor Planet with 4 and 2 PDU's respectively is assigned to the System B Major Planet (so can be targeted if that planet is attacked) - but can retreat out of the hex.

By Paul Howard (Raven) on Sunday, July 18, 2021 - 01:32 pm: Edit

Fabio-

Last one.
Can a Mauler be used against cripples at 1-1 ratio?
Many thanks

Partially

Multiple Cripple ships have no effect in a normal battle.

In a normal combat - it may target crippled 1 ship (or part/fully crippled group) and use the 1:1 mauler effect.

In a pursuit battle though - it may target 1 or more crippled ships (or crippled group) and use the 1: 1 mauler effect.

i.e. in a normal battle - it can't target say 2 Ad Hoc Escorts which are already crippled in a Group - but in a Persuit battle, it can.

By fabio poli (Fabioz) on Sunday, July 18, 2021 - 01:37 pm: Edit

Thanks Paul
Any answer about Hydran SR?

By Ryan Opel (Feast) on Sunday, July 18, 2021 - 02:00 pm: Edit

FAbio,

(542.16) is likely going away when the Strat Ops is updated later this year.

By fabio poli (Fabioz) on Sunday, July 18, 2021 - 02:07 pm: Edit

Ok, thanks Ryan