"
By Sam Benner (Nucaranlaeg) on Sunday, July 18, 2021 - 03:34 pm: Edit


Actually, while cripples at capitals is on the docket...

What about carrier groups with a crippled escort? Can the cl in CV+cl+FF be directed? Can the mec or the EFF in CV+mec+EFF be directed? Can the group cv+mec+eff be directed as a group (this one is probably yes)?"

Group Rules trump normal rules - so a cl could be directed on being an Ad-Hoc Escort), but the mec would be safe.

A crippled group would be viable target - but a cv+mec+EFF group I think might be safe (as the EFF is NOT a valid target if it's not in the battle)?

By fabio poli (Fabioz) on Wednesday, July 21, 2021 - 11:24 am: Edit

Just for sport about questions above:
can cripples, not in the battleforce, defending during a round in an capital assault be put in stasis?
... i would say no, but....

By Thomas Mathews (Turtle) on Wednesday, July 21, 2021 - 12:17 pm: Edit

No, they cannot be target by SFGs or Maulers. While they are targeted at 2-1 instead of the normal 3-1 for ships in the support echelon they are not in the battle force for either Maulers or SFGs or both when used in conjunction.

By fabio poli (Fabioz) on Wednesday, July 21, 2021 - 01:10 pm: Edit

@Turtle
posted the question for maulers in Q&A.
we shall wait answer.
btw, in pursuit you can target with maulers also cripples that are not in the battleforce.
Then, my question...

POLI:

---

Quote:

(312.21) FREEZING ENEMY SHIPS: Each uncrippled SFG unit in a Battle Force can attempt to "freeze" one (or more) ship(s) [or other suitable targets] in the enemy Battle Force during each Combat Round.

---

By Richard Eitzen (Rbeitzen) on Wednesday, July 21, 2021 - 03:08 pm: Edit

I don't know if Turtle is correct or not; I am unaware of any rule or ruling which addresses this subject.

By Thomas Mathews (Turtle) on Wednesday, July 21, 2021 - 03:48 pm: Edit

Pursuit rules are specific to that bit of combat. The mauler and SFG rules address those specific issues in specific ways. Therefore they are specific and override the general.

By John M. Williams (Jay) on Wednesday, July 21, 2021 - 05:17 pm: Edit

Question about 204.24, 508.33 and 509.1-K1

During strategic movement, a tug moves to the capital (or starts in the capital), picks up a PDU, and takes it to a planet for deployment. If there are no PDUs currently on the planet, the tug must remain in the planet hex until deployment is complete on the following player turn.

However, 508.33 says that a PDU deployed on a planet that already has PDUs is effective immediately. Since the PDU deployment is immediate, does this allow the tug to continue on to a different SMN before ceasing strategic movement or must it still end strategic movement in the deployment hex?

By Stewart Frazier (Frazikar3) on Wednesday, July 21, 2021 - 07:13 pm: Edit

While the PDU becomes effective, the tug is still on Mission K1 and cannot move further until reassigned in the next player turn (think it's on mission M during the opposing player's turn, though) ...

By Paul Howard (Raven) on Thursday, July 22, 2021 - 02:58 am: Edit

SFG's and Persuit

Remember - SFG's can't be used by the Persuing force and therefore the excess crippled ships rule being targetable is not relevant (312.264).

The pursued force can use SFG's - but again, there is no ships outside the battleforce then either.

By John M. Williams (Jay) on Thursday, July 22, 2021 - 11:53 am: Edit

A couple of questions:

1) What does 414.21 mean? I believe the first part is saying that once created a convoy can move two hexes during operational movement, but am not sure what the "draws supplies as if their Movement Point allowance were six hexes" part means.

2) It takes ten points to devastate a planet, and the ten points can be accumulated over multiple combat rounds. However, what happens to the partial devastation points if ten points are not accumulated by the end of combat? For example, suppose the attacker does seven points of devastation damage, but is then forced to retreat. If the attacker resumes the assault the next turn, are the seven points still there or is the slate wiped clean and a full ten points of damage needed during the second attack?

By Thomas Mathews (Turtle) on Thursday, July 22, 2021 - 01:02 pm: Edit

John

Q1: A convoy can move a maximum of two hexes using operational movement. It draws supplies upto a maximum of six hexes. For the convoy to be in supply and supply ships that are further than 6 hexes away from a planet or Base Station or larger base the Convoy must be 6 or less hexes away from said planet or base.

Q2 has been asked previously. The answer is the accumulated points are "repaired" at no cost and the planet starts the next phase or turn depending on circumstances at 0 points accumulated for devastation.

By fabio poli (Fabioz) on Thursday, July 22, 2021 - 01:19 pm: Edit

Thanks FEDS

By Paul Howard (Raven) on Sunday, July 25, 2021 - 06:45 am: Edit

By Ted Fay (Catwhoeatsphoto) on Saturday, July 24, 2021 - 08:44 pm: Edit


Q449.2 May the Klingons sell a F5 from the unreleased Northern fleet on CT1 in the General War Scenario The Wind (601.0)?

The question is NOT whether the Klingons can sell a ship to the WYN on CT1 in The Wind scenario (this has been asked and answered). The question is whether the sold ship can come from an unreleased fleet on CT1 - namely, Northern Fleet.

Ted - I think that's an easy answer - 'no' - on the basis the rules only permit unreleased fleets to do two things

1) Upto 6 ships can move inside the fleet area on Anti-Piracy Duty

2) 1 ship can be sent to an own SB outside the Fleet area for conversion (if the Fleet area doesn't have a SB).

Therefore there is no enabling rule for an unreleased ship to move to Wyn (or anywhere else) space.

By Thomas Mathews (Turtle) on Sunday, July 25, 2021 - 02:36 pm: Edit

Jason, (446.11) Colonies can be built when the empire in question is at war or limited war. So a TG in an unreleased fleet could be given Mission X (Develop Colony) but not Y (Develop Colony Base) at that point in time.

CHECK 509.323

By Thomas Mathews (Turtle) on Sunday, July 25, 2021 - 02:36 pm: Edit

Deleted by author, duplicate post.

By Jason E. Schaff (Jschaff297061) on Sunday, July 25, 2021 - 04:27 pm: Edit

Turtle:

509.323 contradicts your statement. (emphasis added)

Tugs in an inactive fleet may be assigned pods or a mission, but would be unable to use the pods or perform the mission until released.

So an unreleased tug could be assigned either of missions X or Y but could not perform either mission until released. Why anyone would want to do that I don't know, but it is theoretically possible.

By Thomas Mathews (Turtle) on Sunday, July 25, 2021 - 08:11 pm: Edit

It has been a long accepted practice on Turn 7 for the Fed tug to start building a colony underneath the 5th Fleet Starbase. Your empire is at war if the Klingons attack, limited war if they don't.

By Ryan Opel (Ryan) on Sunday, July 25, 2021 - 09:09 pm: Edit

I agree Turtle. But it's been illegal for 11 years now. Do we put an exception for certain missions?

By Steve Cole (Stevecole) on Sunday, July 25, 2021 - 09:58 pm: Edit

It has been illegal for a decade. Let this horse die.

By Soeren Klein (Ogdrklein) on Monday, July 26, 2021 - 02:20 am: Edit

Q(302.61) interacting with (504.332)

Hello, guys!

We'd like some opinion on a battle hex Joern and I recently resolved:

Background: A Gorn force is moving into Romulan territory. The Romulans move a squadron into their path so the Gorn are forced to leave behind a small squadron of BD and DD behind.
The Romulan squadron consisted of a WE, a squadron of 6 fighter factors from the BATS next door, and a mercenary orion LR.


On the first combat round the Gorn score 4 damage points, which I allocated to the fighter squad. After that I want to retreat.


The Gorn succeeded in pursuit and scored another 4 points of damage.

I allocate two points to the remaining fighters which left me 2 points to allocate.

According to (302.61) I can ignore damage if it is less than half of the smallest defense factor available.

But the smallest unit is the LR with a defense factor of 4, so the remaining points could not be ignored.


On the other hand:

Orion rule (504.332) excludes the LR from being used for damage resolution.
So I would have to use the remaining points on the WE.

Here is the sitch:

Joern pointed out that since the remaining two points are less than half of the WE defense factor of 6 I might simply ignore them and withdraw.
I think as they are half of the LR defense factor I have to resolve them but am not allowed to use them on the LR itself.

What would be the expert opinion in this situation? Does excluding orion warships from damage allocation under (504.332) also exlude them from determing the threshold wether or not remaining damage points might be ignored at the end of a combat round under (302.61)?

(As a side note: We also remembered ready a rule (other than 504.332) somewhere that allowed Orion ships to be crippled if all other ships in a battle force were crippled but could not find it either.)


Further question:
During the discussion we stumbled over the question wether or not independent fighters could retreat and fight in a pursuit at all.
Fighters with no carriers to land on are lost at the end of a combat round, but does this also applies to an independent squadron from a nearby BATS?
We could not find the according rule in either (302.8) or (501.7/8).
Any advice where to look?

Mit freundlichen Grüßen,

Soeren Klein

By Paul Howard (Raven) on Monday, July 26, 2021 - 03:10 am: Edit

Hi Soeren

Firstly - I don't think there is any pursuit - as from the Romulan forces you gave, nothing was Crippled?

But if there was a cripple to persue, fighters which reacted in take no part in the pursuit battle (as either the pursuer or persued).

On the damage - the rule is if remaining damage is 50% or greater of the smallest unit, the damage has to be applied, but you are not required to cripple the smallest unit, but you have to resolve it, so the WE would have to be crippled as the LR would be last to be crippled.

By John M. Williams (Jay) on Monday, July 26, 2021 - 12:25 pm: Edit

One comment; one question. Not sure if the comment should be posted here or in the Warbook section.

Comment: 204.31 says that free strategic movement is available to ships that are newly built, repaired or activated. It has been asked and answered whether "activated" in this context is limited to ships activated from a mothball reserve per 434.0 or whether a newly released fleet also counts as "activated." The answer was that it is limited to activations under 434, but since there are places in the rules where the word "activated" is used to describe a newly released fleet (e.g., the second paragraph of 600.30), I recommend adding a clarifying statement to 204.31 as part of the Warbook update (if it's not already on the list).

Question: 600.322 allows an unreleased fleet in an area without a starbase to send a ship to the nearest starbase for conversion. How is "nearest" defined? Nearest to the deployment area or nearest to where the fleet has been positioned within its deployment area? I found this question posted from 2008, but it was not actually answered (the reply was that adding the starbase in the TBS territory to the Klingon Eastern Fleet's territory rendered the question moot). However, it's still worth answering as it could apply to multiple other situations. For example, the Klingon Western Fleet's deployment area is closest to the Southern Reserve starbase, but within the Western Fleet's territory, the fleet could be placed such that the closest starbase is in the capital hex.

By Mike Erickson (Mike_Erickson) on Monday, July 26, 2021 - 01:35 pm: Edit

For 600.322, if the player wishes to have a ship in an unreleased fleet undergo a major conversion (D6-->D6M), is the ship then allowed to go to a capital hex starbase?

I've historically played as this is allowed, as a capital starbase is the closest starbase capable of doing the conversion.

--Mike

By John M. Williams (Jay) on Monday, July 26, 2021 - 02:00 pm: Edit

Hi Mike,

There is a post that officially rules that a ship may move to the capital for a major conversion, even if its territory has a starbase. Copied below:

(600.322) states that an inactive fleet without a starbase could send a ship out of it's deployment area to the nearest friendly starbase to be converted. If you wanted to perform a major conversion of a ship could you move the ship (even if it has a SB in it's deployment area) to the capital to be converted?

FEDS: The intent of (600.322) is to provide a method for an inactive fleet without a starbase to convert its fleet's ships. Further, if any inactive fleet wanted to perform a major conversion upon one of its ships, then the only way to do so is to send the ship to the capital/shipyard hex because all major conversions MUST be made in the capital/shipyard hex per (433.17). This includes all inactive fleets because even if they possess their own starbase, said starbase may be incapable of performing major conversions. Indeed, this is also required if an inactive fleet wishes to convert a ship to a CVA or SCS as such conversions MUST be performed at the capital/shipyard hex per (433.45) and (515.524).

FEDS RULING: Unless overruled by ADB, any inactive fleet may send one ship per turn to the capital/shipyard to perform a major conversion or CVS/SCS conversion under the provisions of (600.322).

References:

Quote:
(433.17) MAJOR CONVERSION LIMITS: No starbase can make more than one large (4+ point) conversion per turn, and all large conversions must be made in the capital/shipyard hex. Extra conversions under (433.16) and (433.15) are subject to all rules. This may require building extra starbases.

(433.45) ...CVA and SCS ships can only be produced (including conversions) in a capital shipyard...

(515.524) CVAs cannot be produced outside of a working capital shipyard hex. This includes conversions and new construction. There is an exception for the Romulans in (433.45). The Hydran Guild shipyard is not a capital shipyard.

By Soeren Klein (Ogdrklein) on Monday, July 26, 2021 - 02:52 pm: Edit

Geez, Paul! You are right.......

The most obvious solution to the situation, used a dozen of times to avoid pursuit by killing ships instead of crippling them, and yet we let us selves get distracted by some insignificant rules interaction.

Thanks for the hint and the advice on the damage resolution.

Mit freundlichen Grüßen,

Soeren Klein