CT7

Combat is well under way! Scads of Fed BATS have vanished, mostly for fighters and the occasional cripple. SB 2915 is currently being destroyed, as the Klingons kill CAs and the SB absorbs SID hits, but the fight will be short and not real eventful (as crippling ships to try to save the SB is completely futile, as every crippled ship drops my compot accordingly). The Kzinti lost BATS 1803 and 1902, but the Klingons declined to fight over planet 1802 which was saved by a moderate reserve.

In Hydran space, the Hydrans lost a CR from the province raiders, planet 0718 is now under Lyran control, the Lyrans offered a declined approach over SB 0215 and then left, and the Coalition have now devastated all planets in the capital except for the homeworld, and they are pausing to settle on a plan for killing the SB.

Lots more destruction to come!

By Peter Bakija (Bakija) on Sunday, September 12, 2021 - 11:48 am: Edit

CT7

So far, the Feds lost 9 BATS (crippling a few Klingons here and there, but mostly killing fighters); SB 2915 went down in 3 rounds (well, 2 rounds, and 1 round vs the abandoned crippled SB with 1SID left and no fighters), where the Feds lost a CA and the Klingons lost 2D6D and took a few cripples. Planet 2106 has been captured. The Kzinti lost 2 BATS. Actual combat in the Hydran capital will start probably later today.

By Peter Bakija (Bakija) on Monday, September 13, 2021 - 10:29 am: Edit

CT7

We are now fighting in earnest over the Hydran homeworld. On the first round of combat, BIR was high (8?), the Hydrans rolled a 6 (with a -1 shift) for an auto kill, the Klingons rolled a 5. The Klingons did 41 damage and used it to vaporize the Hydrans scout TG. The Hydrans dropped 69 damage on the Klingons, who crippled half a dozen ships and had to self execute a D5.

The second round, BIR was lower (1+4), the Hydrans were shooting into a -2 EW shift, and everything was more reasonable; something like the Klingons did 25 damage and the Hydrans did 42. Not sure if the Klingons are going to SID the SB or not yet.

By Mike Erickson (Mike_Erickson) on Monday, September 13, 2021 - 03:52 pm: Edit

Will the plucky Hydrans fight to the last ship to make the Coalition pay dearly for their victory, or perhaps retreat early to save major fleet elements to fight another day?

--Mike

By Stewart Frazier (Frazikar3) on Monday, September 13, 2021 - 05:23 pm: Edit

Depends on if the Hydran is taking SIDS, then he might be saving the fleet for later ...

By Peter Bakija (Bakija) on Tuesday, September 14, 2021 - 08:11 am: Edit

CT7

Currently into R9 over the Hydran SB. SB is at 7 SIDS steps, and will take one more this round, certainly.

After vaporizing the only Hydran 4 point scout (TGS), the Coalition settled into hitting SIDS steps each round (killing fighters on top of that). The Hydran line has been at 185/4 for each of the last 8 rounds; dice have been pretty good for the Hydrans (they got to benefit from 2 free autokills so far) while the Coalition dice have been a little less good, but they haven't missed any SID steps.

The Klingons have been pretty mangled, and the Hydrans have killed something every round (including the two free kills they took). The Hydrans started at an EW deficit, with a -2 shift for a few rounds, then a -1 shift for most of the time, but now that the Hydrans killed the last big Klingon scout, they might stay at even for the last couple rounds.

It looks like the Coalition will kill the SB, but then it is unlikely that they'll stick around to try and push the Hydrans out of the hex, so the Hydrans likely keep their shipyard for one more turn.

By Peter Bakija (Bakija) on Tuesday, September 14, 2021 - 10:18 am: Edit

CT7

The Hydrans lost their capital starbase in the 10th round of combat over the homeworld when the Klingons mauled the crippled SB.

We have paused here to catch up on the map (and so Jason can sleep :-).

The Klingons have taken a lot of damage; they have probably two dozen cripples, are low on fighters, and have lost all their significant scouts (the Hydrans shot down 2D6S, D5S, Lyran TGS, and a couple D6Ds already) in the hex. It remains to be seen at this point if the Klingons are going to try and push the Hydrans out of the hex currently. If they leave now, the pursuit will be rough, and some Aux CVs will certainly get killed. But the Hydrans still have a full fleet and lots of fighters. It might be better to retreat and come back on T8 to push them out, but we shall see.

Dice have not been kind to the Klingons here; the Hydrans outrolled the Klingons in most rounds, and rolled up a lot (i.e. multiple 5's and 6's).

By Paul Howard (Raven) on Tuesday, September 14, 2021 - 01:25 pm: Edit

Tough choices for both sides.

What will the lines now be like?

By Peter Bakija (Bakija) on Tuesday, September 14, 2021 - 01:31 pm: Edit

The Hydrans still have all their cruisers; the Capital has something like 2PAL, 2LEG, 3CC, 6DG, 6RN, 8HR, 5LN and then scads of frigates and a couple carrier groups.

The Klingons started strong, but are running out of war cruisers and fighters, and don't have a ton of cruisers left either. Both sides could fight for a long time, but I suspect that the Hydrans have an edge in an attrition fight currently.

By Peter Bakija (Bakija) on Tuesday, September 14, 2021 - 03:44 pm: Edit

CT7

So it is currently a pause at the end of R10 over the Hydran homeworld. The SB is dead. The Coalition are determining their next move.

Over the 10 rounds, the Coalition killed the only Hydran heavy scout on the first round, directed SIDS for the next 8 rounds (using a mauler a few times, but largely without mauling), and then directed the crippled SB on R10. The Hydrans only lost the TGS and then a lot of fighters.

The Coalition lost:

Killed: 2D6S, 2D7C, 2D6D, D5S, D5, F5, TGC+SP

Crippled: 4D6M, 4D7, 5D5, 2F5L, 5F5, 6F5S, BC, CC

The Klingons have not many fighters left in the hex (about a dozen), maybe 17 total cruiser (CW+) hulls left, a couple C8s, a couple maulers, a BT, and not much EW support left (3D6D which are likely needed for bombardment, 2F5S and a DWS). The Coalition might keep fighting, but might flee here. They have all those cripples, and then a bunch of Aux CVs to protect. They are all escorted with various FFs, but some things will die in the slow unit pursuit.

By Peter Bakija (Bakija) on Tuesday, September 14, 2021 - 07:16 pm: Edit

CT7

After killing the SB, the Coalition (probably wisely) chose to retreat to fight again another day. The Hydran capital SB is dead, all planets are devastated other than Hydrax.

In pursuit, the Hydrans sent:

2PAL+ADM, 2LGE, LB, LM, LC, 5RN, which divided into:

2PAL, 2LGE, LM, LC in the fast pursuit and LB, 5RN in slow pursuit.

The Hydrans rolled hot in fast pursuit, and bagged 2 crippled D6M and a crippled F5.

In slow pursuit against a line of escorted LAVs with a dozen fighters, the Hydrans rolled low, and ended up directing an E4 escorting an LAV rather than just killing fighters. The Hydrans only lost fighters in both pursuits.

So in regular pursuit, the Hydrans were killer (and they got to put the -2 the Klingons had from the last round on the slow retreat, as the pursuer gets to choose), but the slow retreat (assuming all the Auxes are escorted by FFs) is unlikely to do much, an didn't. If the Hydrans ignored the regular pursuit and sent the whole force after the slow pursuit, they probably could have killed a bunch of ships, but I figured the D6Ms in the regular pursuit was the better option.

On to the next SB assault!

By Richard Eitzen (Rbeitzen) on Tuesday, September 14, 2021 - 08:44 pm: Edit

(302.742B) says that for each escort in the slow unit pursuit, the pursuers can add a ship. Perhaps that should have been done here?

By Jason Langdon (Jaspar) on Tuesday, September 14, 2021 - 09:29 pm: Edit

So Peter could have had a full line of cruisers.
There would have been MANY escorts destroyed.

By Richard Eitzen (Rbeitzen) on Tuesday, September 14, 2021 - 11:04 pm: Edit

I'm saying that if the slow unit pursued force had (say) 4 escorts for aux's, then instead of just the six remaining pursuers, you could have added four more ships. If there were no cruisers available (unlikely) you could have put in DDs or FFs or something.

From the sound of it, the players did not realize this, but perhaps it was a conscious decision and I am mistaken.

By Paul Howard (Raven) on Wednesday, September 15, 2021 - 02:28 am: Edit

302.742 B.

Although I then get confused with the legal battle force interaction rules.

So if there was 2 x LAV and 2 x SAV's, you could have

LAV+3 Escorts
SAV+2 Escorrs

(CR 6 of LAV) - and the other LAV and SAV not on the line (and don't seem to be attackable... - as it's a Slow Battle Round and not pursuit battle)

But those 5 escorts would allow up to 5 additional Slow Battle Round ships to be added).

So could the Hydrans get enough to bag the 3SAV group - as normal rules apply (as far as I know - i.e. single directing on a ship or group)?

I must be getting something wrong as a good slow round battle retreat force shouldn't lose much (if it's Aux Carriers over FRD's and Tugs).

By Peter Bakija (Bakija) on Wednesday, September 15, 2021 - 07:32 am: Edit

>>From the sound of it, the players did not realize this, but perhaps it was a conscious decision and I am mistaken.>>

Hmm. It is indeed possible that this was a missed aspect of a convoluted rule. We'll get it right next time!

>>(CR 6 of LAV) - and the other LAV and SAV not on the line (and don't seem to be attackable... - as it's a Slow Battle Round and not pursuit battle) >>

Slow Unit Retreat rules were changed in a recent Captain's Log; slow units not on the retreat line (i.e. those Auxes over to the left there) are still valid targets in the Slow Unit Retreat, just like cripples in a regular retreat.

By Paul Howard (Raven) on Wednesday, September 15, 2021 - 11:01 am: Edit

Ahhh…

...that is a pretty major change - if your allowed to target multiple unescorted Aux carriers.

Did it explain what to do with under escorted Aux Carriers.

i.e. if I have 3 x LAV and 3 x SAV and several escorts (previously allocated), could I escort each AV with 1 escort?

i.e. 3 x LAV+D5 and 3 x SAV+D5...…

Even 30 damage would only then get a single SAV+D5 group.

By Richard Eitzen (Rbeitzen) on Wednesday, September 15, 2021 - 01:23 pm: Edit

No. You cannot change escorts or add them except as permitted in the rules. Generally, you must set your escorts when you make your first battle force and the only ways this gets changed during the resolution of the battle hex is (according to my memory) by destruction of escorts (removing the destroyed escort), FCRs added as an emergency escort or by the removal of escorts in preperation for pursuit.

By Peter Bakija (Bakija) on Wednesday, September 15, 2021 - 01:31 pm: Edit

Correct. You set up the carrier groups at the start of the battle hex. Say Aux groups of:

[LAV, 3E4]
[SAV, 2E4]
LAV

When you retreat from the hex, the escorts of the Auxes can detach and leave the Auxes behind, due to a specific rule about slow retreats (one of the ones I remember :-); you can't just willy-nilly change escort groups, however.

With under/unescorted Auxes, they have no minimum group size, so you can have [LAV], or [LAV, E4], or [LAV, 3E4], and they are all legal and take up the correct number of slots.

Under the new Slow Retreat rules, Aux groups (escorted or not) that can't fit on the line (by virtue of command rating) are still valid targets in the Slow Pursuit, just like cripples that aren't on the line in regular pursuit.

By Paul Howard (Raven) on Thursday, September 16, 2021 - 02:29 am: Edit

Doh Doh Doh.

Missed 'no minimum size' in 515.27 (but was aware about not adding escorts other than FCR's etc).

So, it doesn't really make much difference though, as long as you remember to correctly escort them at the start of the battle (and you think your going to Retreat).

So, if you had 3 x LAV and 3 x SAV's say, you could do : -

Battle Line
LAV+D5+D5+E4, LAV+D5+E4

Other ships
LAV+CW+CW+FF, SAV+D5+E4 SAV+CW+FF, SAV+CW+FF

Yes, uses 14 hulls to escort them all (but you can always use the 4LAV groups in the battle if need be), and would need a very good roll to get a 3SAV group (40 damage - so possible, but 100 compot line needs a 5 at BIR 8, assuming no owed!) - so probably 2 or 3 FF's would die?

I must be missing something or a mass slow retreat is still pretty safe?

By Peter Bakija (Bakija) on Thursday, September 16, 2021 - 07:34 am: Edit

Paul wrote:
>>I must be missing something or a mass slow retreat is still pretty safe?>>

Sort of?

The Pursuing force gets to put any minus points where they want. And gets to pick both BIR numbers. And gets to add extra ships per escort in the pursued force. So in your example of:

[LAV, 2D5, E4], [LAV, D5, E4],

if it is being chased down by:

LB, 6DG, 3RN=106

(all the PAL/LGE/BTss are on the regular pursuit; the slow pursuit gets to add 5 extra ships up to maximum line)

Assuming BIR8 and rolling a 3, that's 35%, or 37 damage. If you drop that, if there are no fighters in the line, that cripples all the escorts (29), and then kills D5 and 2E4 (8). If there are a bunch of fighters (although why would there be a bunch of fighters when the Auxes are retreating?), it becomes harder to kill things, but if the attackers roll up a bit and hit 40 damage, they can direct one of the [SAV, CW, FF] groups off the line at regular 2:1.

I mean, if you have all your Auxes escorted by cruisers, and are retreating full of fighters, then yeah, they are probably pretty safe. But if they are escorted by FFs (i.e. ships you weren't going to put on the line anyway in whatever you were attacking), and then retreat after burning most of your fighters, some things will certainly die.

(And keep in mind that if there is a base or planet that the Aux force is retreating from, the Auxes need to stay with the base until it is gone, even if everyone else retreats, so the attackers can just keep fighting over the crippled SB while shooting down Aux escorts or just the Auxes themselves).

By Richard Eitzen (Rbeitzen) on Thursday, September 16, 2021 - 01:03 pm: Edit

Note that Lyran and Gorn carrier groups cannot be overstuffed. I think there might be some restriction on their aux groups but I can't remember.

***

Slow unit retreat is NOT very safe.

The pursuer gets to pick both BIRs and can often have an entire force. DBB is possible.

So, your aux groups and towed FRDs might have to fight a 100 compot force, possibly with a mauler, at a base BIR of 8. 50 damage is possible, 30+ damage is virtually guaranteed.

Note that all slow units are vulnerable to directed damage. So if FRDs are being towed, you can target a towing unit and you get the FRD for free. Any aux carriers with no escorts or just an FF are pretty vulnerable. SAFs and other aux units are vulnerable (note that SAFs and convoys can be escorted). It is often fairly ugly for the slow force.

By Peter Bakija (Bakija) on Thursday, September 16, 2021 - 05:28 pm: Edit

CT7

Combat seems to be winding up. The attack on the Marquis SB turned out to be, in fact, just a decoy to pull reserves from other targets, so the Coalition just left the neighborhood, and the Kzinti didn't prevent them from doing so.

Another Fed BATS died, there is an approach fight over SB 2211 (but the Klingons are clearly retreating after one round), but the Feds did come out to shoot at something. Kzinti planets 1001 and 1105 were both captured (and a Kzinti FF bought it).

I think the Coalition took enough damage over Hydax for the turn, but if they aggressively field repair, they'll be able to hold off any Hydran offensives anyway.

By Peter Bakija (Bakija) on Thursday, September 16, 2021 - 05:44 pm: Edit

Richard wrote:
>> So, your aux groups and towed FRDs might have to fight a 100 compot force, possibly with a mauler, at a base BIR of 8. 50 damage is possible, 30+ damage is virtually guaranteed.>>

As is always the case, the Coalition are way better at taking advantage of slow retreats (until X-Ships. Or the DNT!!!!) 'cause of maulers.

By Peter Bakija (Bakija) on Thursday, September 16, 2021 - 08:45 pm: Edit

CT7

Combat is over!

In Hydran space, the Coalition killed the Capital SB (no fixed defenses left in the Hydran capital, but they still have a shipyard. For now.), killed a province raider, and pinned and then fled from SB 0215.

In Kzinti space, the Coalition killed 2 BATS in the Marquis zone, recaptured planets 1001 and 1105, and a bunch of provinces.

In Fed space, the Klingons killed SB 2915, 9 BATS, and captured planet 2106. They also forced Orion neutrality, and probably captured a bunch of provinces.

Other than over Hyrax, the Klingons didn't take much damage; they currently have 40 cripples on the map, but I suspect that they'll field repair a bunch of frigates on the Hydran front, and probably all of those ships will be repaired at the start of the next Coalition turn.

Ships Killed:
-ZIN: 2FF
-HYD: TG+SP, CR
-FED: CA, FF

-LYR: TGC+SP
-KLI: 2D7C, 4D6D, 2D6S, D5S, D5, 2F5, (2D6M, F5S)

So the Klingons made mint on salvage this turn, which more than makes up for the 12 EPs they spent on drone bombardment.