Ted - 3518 was definitely a win for the Feds, in that they were able to hit it at all. It was less of a win than I was hoping for. But that's not a problem in the slightest.

The rest of combat fails to yield surprising results. SB 1509 blows up but the Feds are stuck out of supply in 1609. The Klingons are kicked off of 1202, 1504, and 1506. The Lyrans lose their PDUs in 1001. And 30ish Coalition ships are out of supply in NE Kzinti/NW Fed space - but they have a few EP to fund most of them or they can get to combat hexes where they'll be in supply. There are 11 Lyrans in 2106, however, for which there is no real hope of getting into supply.

Final damage counts:

Kzinti crippled: 2MEC (3EP)
Kzinti dead: FF
Federation crippled: DN+ 2TG-B CC CVB CVS CVL 3CA NCD 7NCL 2CL 4DE 6DD 2FFE 14FF (66.5EP)
Federation dead: FFS 7FF

Lyran dead: DWE FF
Klingon crippled: AD5 F5L 4F5 3E4 (10EP)
Klingon dead: 2E4
Romulan crippled: FAL SP SN (6.5EP)
Romulan dead: 2ke sp 2bh SNB 2sn k5l K5S 2k4

Lyran bases: 2PDU(1001)
Klingon bases: SB(1509) BATS(1813) 6PDU(1514, 1714)
Romulan bases: SB(4015) BATS(3817) 7SIDS(3518)

The Feds did 24 points of field repair in 3611, where the 3518 fleet retrograded to. Reserves:

Kzinti 1st Reserve (OM): CVA BC 3DD 4FF DF SF
Kzinti 2nd Reserve (1401): 2CV CWE CLE 2TGC-V TG-S
Federation 1st Reserve (3209): CVA 3DE FFE 4NCL 2FF LSC
Federation 2nd Reserve (2211): CC 5NCL 4FF LSC
Federation 3rd Reserve (2610): CA 4NCL 4FF LSC
Federation 4th Reserve (3209): CA 4NCL CL 3FF
Hydran 1st Reserve (OM): TR 2KN CU HN
Hydran 2nd Reserve (0617): PAL 7HR 2HN TG+MB SC

By Karl Mangold (Solomon) on Sunday, August 15, 2021 - 11:21 pm: Edit

Y173 Fall, Coalition turn 11
Lyran Economy
Survey
Prev Total: 97
New Roll: 7
Total: 104 (+1 province)

Command Points: 9-1+1=9

Prev Turn:
3 Field Repair C8
13.125 salvage (BC, STT, CC, CL, DW, DWS, DWE, 3FF)
0.05 old treasury
10.175 remaining (end of A10)

Income
Maj Planets(9):45
Min Planets(10):30
On-Map Provinces(16):32
Off-Map Provinces(9):18
Captured NZ(10 hexes):2
Captured Provinces:8 (0701, 0901, 0803, 1104, 0214, 0316, 0318, 0714)
Captured Planets (4min): 4 (1001, 1105, 0416, 0519)
Total: 139

New Treasury: 139+10.175=149.175

Production [62.5]
10 BC
8 TGC sub CA
6 CWE sub CW
15 CWx3
10 2DWE sub 2DW
6 DWS sub DW
7.5 FFx3

Repairs [46]
2 (1502) 2FF
2 (0504) 2FF
2 (0705) CC
6 (0404) CW, DW, 2DWS
6 (0906) 3CL, DW
7 (OM) 3CL, DW, FF
2 (0707) 2DD
2 (0809) 2FF
5 (0608) 2CW, DD, SC
6 (0411) 4CW
4 (0408) 2DD, SC, FF
2 (0109) CA

Conversions [9]
6 CA to DN
3 CW to CWS 0608

Overbuilds [0]

Other Production [28]
20 transfer to Klingons (tribute payment)
2+6 VP+ pallet (3fff)

145.5 total expenses
3.675 remaining

By Karl Mangold (Solomon) on Sunday, August 15, 2021 - 11:22 pm: Edit

Y173 Fall, Coalition turn 11
Klingon Economy
Survey
Prev Total:75
New Roll: 4
Total: 79

B10
Prev Total:38
New Roll 3
Total: 41 (complete this turn)

Command Points: 9-1+1+1 (IWR)= 10

Main Supply Grid Econ
End CT4 Treasury: 19.375
Field Repair C10: -3
Salvage: 31.35 (D7C, D7, 4D6M, 3D6D, D5, 2F5L, 2F5E, 5E4, E4A)
Drone Bombardment: -4.8
Allied delivery: +17
Start treasury: 59.925

Income
Maj Planets(8):40
Min Planets(14):42
On-Map Provinces(24, 1 disrupted):47
Off-Map Provinces(3):6
Captured NZ (27 hexes):5.4
Captured planets (0): 0
Captured Prov(5):4(0515, 0716, 0917, 1015, 1118)
Total: 144.4

Total: 204.325 new treasury

Production [120.5]
9 D7C
10 D6M sub D7
13 D6S sub D6
7+0 D5V sub D5 (6fff)
6 AD5 sub D5
35 D5x7
8 2F5L
12 3F5E sub F5x3
18 F5x6 (1 each at 1707, 1716, 2318)
2.5 E4

Repair [49]
2 (1107) 2E4
4 (1707) 2SIDS
2 (1807) 2F5
2 (0908) D7C
2 (1009) D6S
2 (1209) D7C
2 (1011) D6D
24 (1411) D6S, 3D6D, 2D5V, 2AD5, 6D5, F5
6 (0511) 4D5
2 (2014) 2F5
1 (2517 E4

Activate [2]
2 D6 x2 (8 remain)

Conversion [8]
5 D6 (activated) to D6M (major) 1411
3 D6 (activated) to D6D (minor) 1411

Other Expenses [17]
5 B10 work
8 B10 fighters
4 set-up 8 homeless supply lines for Lyrans

196.5 total expenses
204.325-196.5 = 7.825 EP Treasury

Partial Grid 2 - NW Federation space
Income
Captured Prov(2):2 (1801, 2202)
Captured planets (1 min): 1 (1802)
Total:3

Other Expenses [3]
3 EP to supply 15 ships

Total expenses: 3
Treasury: 3-3=0

By Karl Mangold (Solomon) on Sunday, August 15, 2021 - 11:23 pm: Edit

Y173 Fall, Coalition turn 11
Romulan Economy
Survey: 0
On-map provinces discovered: 2/5
On-map planets discovered: 1/2

Command Points: 4+1=5

Prev Turn:
0 Field Repair C9
11.625 salvage (SP, KRM, K5L, 2K4, WE, FAL, 2BH, SN)
0 old treasury
11.625 remaining (end of A10)

Income
Maj Planets(3):15
Min Planets(11):33
On-Map Provinces(24, 1 disrupted):47
Total: 95

New Treasury: 95+11.625=106.625

Production [75.5]
17 CON
8 FH
8 SPC sub SP
6+4 SPB sub SP (6fff)
10 SPx2
9 SKEx2 sub SKx2
3.5 SK
10 FAL sub WE

Repairs [1.5]
1.5 SP (3715)

Conversions [11]
3+8 FH to SUP (4613)

Overbuilds [10]
10 SP

Other Production [2]
2 Smuggle 1EP to partial grid

100 total expenses
106.625-98=6.625 remaining

Romulan Partial Grid - Tholian Border
Income
Provinces (3): 6
Captured provinces (1): 1
Captured NZ hexes (1): 0.2
Salvage A10: 13 (SK, K5S, K4, 2KE, 2WE, 2BH, SNB, 2SN)
Main grid smuggling: 1
Total income: 21.2

Production [2.5]
2.5 SN (3518)

Conversion [1]
1 SN to SNB (3518)

Repair [11.5]
8 (3518) SPB, 2SKE, 2SP, SE
2 (3319) 2K4
1.5 (3516) SPF

Supply [6]
6 to supply 30 ships

Total expenses: 21
Income remaining: 0.2EP

By Karl Mangold (Solomon) on Sunday, August 15, 2021 - 11:39 pm: Edit

Moves are started. In Hydran space, all coalition fleets have once again piled into Hydrax, because they apparently just can't get enough.
In Kzinti space, the coalition have targeted mostly the planets they got kicked off of on AT10. A Lyran raid attempt on 1401 saw most of the fleet get pinned out; the ships that got through are probably not numerous enough to make a difference.
The still-standing Marquis SB was studiously ignored.
We are in the midst of moves on the Federation front. So far Klingons are attacking all the remaining border BATS on the Kzinti and northern Klingon borders, as well as the planet in 2106 and the BATS in north-central Fed space at 2603. The out of supply 10th fleet as well as the province raiders from AT10 in Klingon space (crippled dds) are being addressed by the ISF.
Already there are more battle hexes than reserves to save them, and there are still Klingon moves in south Fed space as well as the Romulans in general, so Sam will have some decisions to make when it is time for reserve movement.

By Richard Eitzen (Rbeitzen) on Monday, August 16, 2021 - 01:38 am: Edit

Fortunately the Gorns are still neutral.

By Sam Benner (Nucaranlaeg) on Thursday, August 19, 2021 - 10:22 am: Edit

Moves are complete!

The Romulans attacked every border BATS they could reach except for 2816 (mysteriously ignored by the Klingons too). 3215 and 3613 might live. They also attacked 3508 and 3509, as well as 3209 (where the reserves were) and 3210. Not terribly surprisingly, 3611 was completely untouched, and 6th Fleet declined to react off of it.

The Federation reserves in Romulan space were incompletely pinned. The Feds were able to send NCL to 3210, NCL to 3215 (where there's just an SK), CA 2NCL to 3215, and NCL 2FF to 3613. Depending on Romulan aggression, one or more of those might still fall.

There's a minor force on 2915, where the Federation 3rd reserve went. As it's only 1 SIDS from being crippled (I needed as many ships as possible to attempt to take down 3518, so no spare repair for SIDS), the Federation are going to have to attempt to defeat them in approach.

Most of the Klingon BATS-busting fleets are strong - for example, 2008 has D6D D6V D7C F5L F5V F5E F5L F5 4F5S E4A. A little bit overkill. Ultimately, the Federation decided that the best defense is a good offense and took the fight to the Klingons. The Federation 2nd Reserve is hitting the undefended 1611, allegedly to open up supply to the stranded and mostly crippled SB killing squad in 1609.

The Kzinti reserves went to 1502 and 1504, where they'll ensure that the Kzinti receive a decent income this coming turn. The Kzinti aren't in any real danger from any of the fights in their space; it should be 4-5 Coalition FFs to 2 or so Kzinti FFs.

Hydran space is about the same as last turn. The reserves were unable to move, and there are a lot of Coalition ships getting ready to die.

In total, I count 35 battle hexes, 11 of which consist of a fleet blowing up undefended PDUs or BATSs (or BATS + FF), and 8 which are SSC.

By Karl Mangold (Solomon) on Tuesday, August 24, 2021 - 07:27 pm: Edit

Romulan theatre is done; essentially all but one border BATS was blown up as well as the BATS next to Sigma Draconis, (which was also captured.) 3209 went down with a significant fight; this started as a pinning battle of the two reserves sitting there, but ended up heated as the two fleets we're pretty evenly matched. The adjacent planet was not captured, and BATS 3215 was the one border station that lived. Also the 7th fleet SB is still standing, the Romulan fleet not having made it past approach. Here, dice were high for both sides, and the writing on the was was that, after 2 rounds there wouldn't be enough of a fleet left by the SB to do damage necessary for the last SIDS. A reserve being sent here allowed this to happen; Roms had a modest fleet with a mauler but we're outnumbered by the Feds with the reserve, and not the endurance for 3 rounds + a SB battle. Alas.
Focus is moving on to the Klingons, were similarly most Fed border BATS remaining are being attacked, as well as a few planets, none of which have reserve backup
The last Fed reserve went to a Klingon planet to open up supply for the oos 10th fleet, two battle tugs and a bunch of cripples that are being attacked by the Klingons as well. A lot of these are SSC or one-sided, so things should go quicker.

By Sam Benner (Nucaranlaeg) on Thursday, September 09, 2021 - 09:41 am: Edit

Combat is complete for C11!

Thigs went pretty much as expected in Kzinti space - they own more of their space than they have for the last few turns, and a few ships died on each side. In Hydran space, 0617 saw 6 rounds + pursuit. The Hydran rolls were lousy, but their huge compot advantage meant that they were able to kill all the Lyran command hulls anyway. The Hydran cripples conducted a fighting retreat over an FF attempting to capture 0718 and then back to 0617 for repairs.

Kzinti crippled: DN MEC
Kzinti dead: MEC CL 3FF
Hydran crippled: PAL TG-S 2HR PGS
Hydran dead: 2RN PGS
Federation crippled: CA 5NCL LSC 2CL 12FF
Federation dead: CC NCL DD CL 3FF
Federation bases: 11BATS(3508, 3508, 3510, 3812, 3613, 3209, 2414, 2008, 2006, 2004, 2603) 8PDU(3509, 2715, 2106)

Lyran crippled: TGC-S 3CW 3CWE DWE
Lyran dead: 2DN 2BC CW CWE DW DWE DWS 2DD 2FF
Klingon crippled: 2D7C 2D7 D6 7D5 D5S 2AD5 F5L 2F5 3E4 E4A
Klingon dead: D6M D6D D5S D5 2F5L 2F5
Klingon bases: 4PDU(1611)
Romulan crippled: KR 5SP 3WE 5SNB SN SK 4SKE 2K5
Romulan dead: SPF SP SNB

The most damage dealt of any turn so far - but even with much of that going on bases, we have a new record number of ships killed: 39 (C10 had 37).

The Hydrans can easily repair all their cripples and can rebuild the ships they lost (I'm not sure whether the rules we're using allow me to build a new PGS, but I can certainly replace it with a DDS). Who knows, maybe they'll try something this turn!

The Kzinti similarly didn't take much damage and are going to be able to do something in A11. Not sure what yet, but they'll probably recapture more of their space.

The Feds are bleeding all over, as expected. They've only lost one starbase, though, so I think they're in great shape. We'll probably see some combination of removing ships that remain in Federation space and aggressive actions from them.

By Paul Howard (Raven) on Thursday, September 09, 2021 - 11:23 am: Edit

I am guessing the Coalition overlooked doing 718 first? (As retreating to 718 would be nearly impossible at this stage of the game, unless all hexes was OOS?)

Secondly - 617 can't be considered a supply source for those force retreating from 718 - I assume it was the closest (or equal closest) from other supply sources?

By Sam Benner (Nucaranlaeg) on Thursday, September 09, 2021 - 01:46 pm: Edit

No, there were no Hydran ships in 0718. So the Hydrans did a fighting retreat there (there is no Hydran supply except 0617 and OM, and the OM is cut off). When the Hydrans retreated again they went to 0617 because they had no supply constraints at all and wanted to get the PAL back to repair.

By Stewart Frazier (Frazikar3) on Thursday, September 09, 2021 - 06:26 pm: Edit

Sorry, but if you retreated off 617 you cannot retreat back to 617 ... (since you retreated off 617 it no longer counts as a supply point) ...

By Sam Benner (Nucaranlaeg) on Thursday, September 09, 2021 - 11:30 pm: Edit

Yes, 0617 is not a supply point for the retreat from 0718... but there aren't *any* supply points in range to retreat toward. Which means that the Hydrans can retreat in whichever direction they feel like. Including, in this case, back to 0617.

By Paul Howard (Raven) on Friday, September 10, 2021 - 01:52 am: Edit

"
By Sam Benner (Nucaranlaeg) on Thursday, September 09, 2021 - 01:46 pm: Edit


No, there were no Hydran ships in 0718. So the Hydrans did a fighting retreat there (there is no Hydran supply except 0617 and OM, and the OM is cut off). When the Hydrans retreated again they went to 0617 because they had no supply constraints at all and wanted to get the PAL back to repair. 2

If 718 had been captured - the Lyran FF could have declined the approach and the Hydrans would have had to retreat again?

But yes, going back to 617 is allowed if no hex was in supply.

By Sam Benner (Nucaranlaeg) on Friday, September 10, 2021 - 10:34 am: Edit

That FF might survive, then. I always thought there had to be something to defend in order for there to be an approach battle - an RDF, at the least. Given that it would be a captured planet...

I don't see that in the rules, though, so I'll just defer to Karl and let him put that FF back on the map (or not) as he thinks appropriate.

By Paul Howard (Raven) on Saturday, September 11, 2021 - 04:21 am: Edit

Nope

302.211 Planets (with or without PDUs)…..

In it's most basic form..... your fleet passes on one side of the planet and the enemy FF hides on the other side of the planet - and you don't have time to find the enemy ship - due to it being the Fighting Retreat.

By Richard Eitzen (Rbeitzen) on Saturday, September 11, 2021 - 04:27 am: Edit

That explanation, while sensible, is not at all posted anywhere in the rules, so I wouldn't treat it as rules or something.

By Paul Howard (Raven) on Saturday, September 11, 2021 - 10:28 am: Edit

Richard - Fully agree - my additional comment was adding flesh to the 302.211 rule

The flip side would be it's a tad difficult for a ship to hide in 'deep space' - no hide and no need to seek!

By Karl Mangold (Solomon) on Monday, September 13, 2021 - 10:11 am: Edit

Looks like Paul was quoting the actual rule (302.211) in that planets are treated as bases for the purpose of approach whether they have anything on them or not. So in this case the FF would decline the approach as it presumably wants to live. The question is more whether a fleet conducting a fighting retreat can fight at the base after a declined approach. I'm inclined to say no...

By Paul Howard (Raven) on Monday, September 13, 2021 - 01:48 pm: Edit

302.77 - D...

If the Defender declines - the retreat continues (the rule states "effecting abandoning the unplanned attack on the base").

By Richard Eitzen (Rbeitzen) on Monday, September 13, 2021 - 03:11 pm: Edit

No. The FF must fight the first battle round.

This is the situation:
It is the Coalition turn, they are by default the attacking player.
The Hydrans have fighting retreated to 0718 from 0617. The Coalition have a single ship at 0718, so it is a battle hex.

The Coalition, being the attacker, must offer an approach battle. The Hydrans must accept as they are conducting a fighting retreat but will fight at BIR 0, while the Coalition will fight at BIR 10. See (302.775A)

After this round of combat, the Hydrans may:
A) fight at no penalty.
or
B) Retreat again.

In the case of A), the Coalition may have to offer another approach battle if they did not previously retreat, if they did not win the previous approach battle.

By Sam Benner (Nucaranlaeg) on Monday, September 13, 2021 - 04:27 pm: Edit

Right, Richard, but that's assuming that the FF hasn't captured it yet and it's still a Hydran planet. If it's a Hydran planet, it's not a fighting retreat and the question is moot. (301.21) says that a battle hex contains units from both sides (so 0718 was not previously a battle hex) but it's unclear to me whether that has any bearing on whether the planet has been captured yet this turn. I'm completely unable to tell whether or not there's any circumstance in which the RDF is actually relevant to the game.

That being said, while it seems clear that (if it's a fighting retreat) by the letter of the rules the Hydrans must offer an approach and then leave, my interpretation of the intent of the rule is that an approach battle is to be used to (optionally) protect something which might need protecting. As a captured planet does not have an RDF, there is nothing to protect, so there is no approach. I'd prefer to play it that way in the future; it's not a big deal to me if we don't.

In any case, if the FF survives and does not retreat, the Hydrans will do a fighting retreat to 0817, kill the E4 there, and then retreat to 0718 and finally to 0617.

By Stewart Frazier (Frazikar3) on Monday, September 13, 2021 - 05:20 pm: Edit

Hmmm, how come this is a fighting retreat as the Hydrans outnumber the Klingons (being one F5)? Also, even if the F5 retreats on its own, isn't the planet liberated at that point?

By Richard Eitzen (Rbeitzen) on Monday, September 13, 2021 - 05:36 pm: Edit

Ah, I got confused, it's been a very busy day.

Ok, so the planet is actually a captured planet.

So indeed the Hydrans are treated as the attacker and must offer an approach battle. The defenders (the FF) can accept or not (they didn't) and then the Hydrans must retreat (not a fighting retreat if they go to 0617). The FF gets to live if it wants to.

***

This is a fighting retreat because the hex is not a supply point for the Hydrans (currently being garrisonned by the capturing power). Being a non-empty possible retreat hex when there are empty alternate retreat hexes available, the fighting retreat option must be used to retreat there.

By Sam Benner (Nucaranlaeg) on Monday, September 13, 2021 - 05:39 pm: Edit

There were a lot of Hydrans in 0617. A few partially retreated: 3CU pal tg-s hr pgs. (Assuming that 0718 was captured - I had assumed that it was) the Hydrans have no supply; thus they must choose a hex with no enemy ships. They decided instead to do a FR to 0718 where there was a single Lyran FF.