Another set of notes for future review:


*In SFB Module R11, the Andromedans have a pair of monitors (the Concretor and Immobilator), each of which trading their displacement devices for a set of external hard points for Mobile Weapons Platforms. They were found at various key locations in the Alpha and Omega Octants, as well as in the LMC.

How would the Andromedans deploy these units to their assigned locations? Given their inability to traverse the RTN while in these configurations, it would be impractical for them to deploy them directly using operational movement only.

Might the Andros fly in a standard Conquistador or Intruder hull to the assigned location, and convert them on site? And if so, what tools do they need there in order to carry out the conversion? Presumably a monitor assigned to one of the Desecrators could be converted by the starbase itself, but can a Construction Battle Station (also in R11) or one of the support variant Motherships (like the Infestor or Missionary) provide the tools required to perform this kind of field conversion?


*In terms of setting up the scenario/s, one thought was to use the precedent of breaking the General War into numerous sub-campaigns as a means of making things more manageable here - and to allow for the key point of divergence to be tackled should there be a call for it.

The initial "Andromeda ascendant" (with apologies to the lead ship in a certain non-SFU-related TV series) setup could run from Y188 to Spring Y195; allowing it to run as far as the destruction of Starbase Sanguinax and the end of the LDR, but stop just short of the Darwin's encounter with that temporal rift.

(Perhaps a further sub-division could be set from Y192, when the Andros opened things up against the Federation.)

Then, from Fall Y195 onwards, one of two branching timelines could be explored scenario-wise.

The first would be set in the "standard" timeline (where the Darwin made it back to pass on its crucial information). It could run through Y202, and cover the gradual wearing down of the RTN in the Alpha Octant proper.

Operation Unity could then be run as an adjunct to this scenario, since the efforts to keep the Andros down in Alpha proper were ongoing throughout the course of Unity itself.

But in the "dark future" explored in Module C3A (where the Darwin only surfaced in alt-Y207, with tremendous consequences to the octant at large), one could instead run out the course of events detailed in C3A (such as the Fed deployment of PFs in alt-Y198, the Lyrans uncovering the RTN in alt-Y200, and so on).

Then, the concept of running Operation Codominion as an adjunct of the Alpha-based campaign would become that much more relevant. Reportedly, the failure of Codominion in the "dark future" timeline was only partly due to the onset of the first Devastator battleships and Dissection Beam Mothership variants (the Extractor, Incisor, Dissector, and the fearsome Devourer) being deployed from the LMC. The task forces were also undermined by the ability of the Andromedan forces still in the Alpha Octant to disrupt and isolate the task force routes themselves.

So if players wished to take a trip down the dark road of Andromedan supremacy, the issue of supporting Codominion would be far more critical (in terms of not being able to abstract it out) than it was historically for Operation Unity.


*Speaking of the Dissection Beam variants, might there be cause for a distinct means of representing the deadly effects of the DSB itself?

I was wondering if a portion of each variant's attack factors could be split off into distinct "DSB factors". Applying each to a target ship would have a specific effect on the target unit/s, since the systems being struck are literally being torn off the target outright.

(Perhaps increasing the cost of repairing the ship, or reducing the salvage which the Alpha player can recover from what remains of the hull?)

In any case, something that represents the sheer danger of these ships would be welcome - not least if the Alpha players somehow find the historical course of events post-Y195 to not provide enough of a challenge...

By Randy Blair (Randyblair) on Tuesday, February 11, 2014 - 02:01 pm: Edit

By Richard B. Eitzen (Rbeitzen) on Tuesday, February 11, 2014 - 02:23 pm: Edit

By Gary Carney (Nerroth) on Tuesday, February 11, 2014 - 02:31 pm: Edit

By Randy Blair (Randyblair) on Tuesday, February 11, 2014 - 03:28 pm: Edit

By Gary Carney (Nerroth) on Tuesday, September 02, 2014 - 04:51 pm: Edit

By Matthew Potter (Neonpico) on Tuesday, September 02, 2014 - 05:35 pm: Edit

By Gary Carney (Nerroth) on Tuesday, September 02, 2014 - 08:29 pm: Edit

By Gary Carney (Nerroth) on Friday, September 05, 2014 - 04:16 pm: Edit

With discussions elsewhere in mind, I was re-thinking the concept of what the "end game" could be, or perhaps should be, for a future Andromedan F&E player.

By and large, the Andromedans in the "standard" timeline made few attempts on enemy capitals in the Alpha Octant - or rather, they lacked the means and opportunity to do so. (They got lucky with the ISC sending so many of their ships on the Pacification Campaign, and even then were thwarted at Korlivala by the timely arrival of the Echelon of Judgement. While they were both lucky and clever in Y195 when subduing Demorak, since they had lured the Red Guard away and were concentrating their available resources against the smallest capital.)

What gave the Invaders the ability to actually threaten Alpha capitals directly in the "dark future" timeline was the deployment of battleships, coupled with the onset of the four Dissection Beam variants noted further above. A Devastator and Devourer duo showing up on your front porch would count as a very bad day at the office, even if you succeeded in driving them off. (Plus the added logistical cost of rebuilding ships with parts shown off by DSB fire would have added to the headaches involved.)


The problem, then, is this: if you are an Andromedan player in F&E, and want to take the invasion of the Alpha Octant past mid-Y195 (or whenever the Darwin incident takes place), what options do you have?

If there is a concrete boundary placed between any would-be "standard" and "dark future" scenarios, you are either locked into a timeline where the odds are fairly heavily stacked against you, or one in which you hold all the cards.

But on the other hand, while the historical Andros seemingly never got around to deploying DSBs, and had only partially completed their first Devastator by the time of Operation Unity, these tools could have been in place had the Andros been more successful in pursuing their campaign in the Alpha Octant.

After all, even if the Darwin gave the Alpha powers a five-year head-start against the RTN, they still had to go through the trouble of figuring out how best to make the network go away - which by no means happened overnight.


So, rather than seeing them as two separate campaigns, I was thinking that perhaps the F&E take on events post-Y195 could treat them as two sides of the same coin (or Mothership hull, in this case).

One could provide the option to offer a sliding scale of "RTN discovery", to range between the Darwin's "return" date (say, Fall Y195?) and the turn in which the Nebulus (a Lyran PF tender) uncovered the network in (either Spring or Fall) alt-Y200. Or perhaps, rather than make it random, base it on a combined total of survey points earned by the various empires' SRs (which could be earned in lieu of the standard exploration points).

On the other hand, the Andros could have a "DSB research total" of their own, based on various factors tied to their performance in the campaign. Once they reach a certain total, they can start fielding DSB variant Mothership hulls. (The total, and the means by which it can be reached, could be scaled so as to be harder to reach the earlier the Alpha powers uncover the RTN - close to impossible if the Darwin reports in time, and virtually certain if the discovery has to wait for the Nebulus report.)

And one could set a similar sliding scale in terms of when the Andros back in the LMC can start construction of the Devastator (and/or Devourer) battleships. The "standard" timeline did not see work on the first one get underway until Y200, but a sliding scale could adjust the date in order to account for the presence of these battleships in alt-Y203 (when they showed up in the "dark future" as part of the thwarting of Operation Codominion).

Indeed, some of the other changes could be treated as triggerable events, too. The "dark future" Feds adopted PFs in alt-Y198, essentially as an act of desperation. Perhaps the Fed player here might do well enough to not trigger such a response - but, on the other hand, maybe the eventuality could be called upon if things go badly enough for Star Fleet in this campaign.


Unlike other alternate timelines or "what-if" histories (such as those needed to facilitate the "lost empires" of Module C6), the "dark future" encountered by the Darwin does happen - though whether the Darwin's return undid this version of events, or merely branched the two timelines off in separate directions upon its return, is a matter of debate.

But in order for Andromedan players to have a real shot at victory, in terms of pressing the offensive against Earth and Klinshai once the winning conditions are met, they may need at least the potential to earn access to the "dark future" Motherships and technologies they need in order to prevail.

By Stewart Frazier (Frazikar2) on Friday, September 05, 2014 - 07:56 pm: Edit

By Gary Carney (Nerroth) on Friday, September 05, 2014 - 08:07 pm: Edit

By Gary Carney (Nerroth) on Sunday, September 14, 2014 - 02:48 pm: Edit

I had a few other topics I wanted to note for future consideration.

-----

It has been noted how difficult a time the Andromedans have in terms of reducing major enemy installations, with a few major historical exceptions (in the "standard timeline" Alpha Octant each having certain circumstances in play).

But in a sense, the Invaders enjoyed a "head-start", since the General War belligerents (followed in turn by the Inter-Stellar Concordium's own efforts) had done much of the work for them along the "traditional" Neutral Zones.

As noted in the various base and planet dispositions in ISC War's (625.0) Driving Winds scenario, a large number of pre-war border bases were destroyed (and had yet to be replaced) by the end of the General War, with a few exceptions along "friendly" borders (Fed-Gorn, Klingon-Lyran) or "neutral" ones (Gorn-ISC and Romulan-ISC).

Of those, the Concordium's Pacification campaign would see even more knocked down (including those Gorn and Romulan bases along Cordons Yankee and Zulu), with a subsequent chain of Pacification stations deployed in their place.

So when the Andromedans chose to go after the ISC cordons first, they were not only making life difficult for the Concordium itself (not least by making it harder for them to rush ships back to defend their capital planets), they were also opening up a wide swath of "undefended" territory along these border areas which was only sporadically interrupted by the semi-isolated cantonments the surviving Pacification bases had coalesced into.

Indeed, perhaps this could be a key reason why the non-aligned powers tolerated these cantonments for so long - they needed them to help maintain cross-border communications, at least in the years before any of these empires could make enough headway against the RTN to get serious about re-establishing their own border bases.

-----

As for the Andromedans themselves, one of many key aspects which distinguishes them from the major empires already in F&E is that, for the most part, an Andromedan player would effectively be the "Alpha Octant theatre command", rather than the "Milky Way invasion command".

To put it another way, the Feds, Klingons, ISC, and others have known base and planet dispositions, attached "off-map" areas, lists of which fleets are which (and where they can be found), how many ships are in their various mothball or capital defence reserves, etc.

(Even with the Seltorians we'll soon see in Minor Empires, the Torch expedition is "all there is" for them to use against the Holdfast, since the nearest reinforcements from M81 are 200 years away... or, at least, so we hope.)

But in the case of the Andromedans, the Alpha Octant campaign is but one of many. Of those we know about, a full-scale invasion was being carried out more or less concourrently over in the Omega Octant; while a series of "garrison" ships would have been on active patrol in the LMC, in order to keep tabs on the surviving Magellanic holdouts. Each of those would have added to the demands on the Desecrator(s) active by that time, and on the distribution of ships coming in from Andromeda along the Intergalactic Trunk Line.

Now, this does not mean that we need to see the details of any of this, at least not right away. All there would need to be mentioned prior to Operation Unity is that the Andro player has this or that amount of material they can draw upon from their "off-map" area in the LMC. (This many new ships, that many repairs or conversions, etc.) It wouldn't be "all there is", but "all you are allowed to use in this campaign".

Where things might get interesting is when the time comes to launch Operation Unity itself. It's one thing for the Invaders to keep their various theatre assets apart when their enemies are still "over there" in the Milky Way. It's quite another when Y202 comes around and three massive task forces are knocking on the door of the LMC itself.

There is a note in CL49's Andromedan history article stating that, by Y202, "half of the Andromedan forces had been pulled out of Omega to feed the war in the Alpha Octant." (I should stress that this particular line was edited in after I had submitted the article for consideration; I didn't come up with it myself.) Given the timing involved, I see this as possibly referring to the need to try and deal with the Unity task forces themselves, in order to try (and historically fail) to fight their way back down into the Alpha Octant along the three contested routes.

My thought was to, effectively, treat these assets (plus the "garrison" ships in the LMC proper) as a kind of "Desecrator defence reserve" for the Andros, akin to the pair of Concordium Defence Reserve Echelons the ISC have in (713.2). Any delay in terms of "activation" would cover the time needed to extract these ships from their prior engagements, race them back to the LMC (or from their patrol routes in the Fringe worlds), and get them ready to throw into the fray.

This might be a relatively clean way to account for Andro operations elsewhere, while ensuring that the existence of these theatres of operation does not become directly relevant until, or unless, the Andros are forced to pull the "break glass in case of impending Desecrator assault" lever.

-----

Actually, one thing that might need to be accounted for eventually is just how much further the Andromedan assault on our corner of the universe went, and just how much of it was funnelled through the LMC.

So far, it has neither been confirmed nor denied whether the Sigma Octant, the Sargasso Storm Octant, and/or the Xorkaelian Empire were themselves attacked by the Andromedans or not. Nor is it confirmed (or denied) whether any of the Milky Way's other satellite galaxies (with the exception of Draco) or extra-galactic globular clusters (save for the Iridani Cluster) were targeted at some point or another.

While this may seem like an academic exercise for the most part, the problem is this: the more the Andros use the LMC to attack other places, the more strain they place on the ITL terminus located there - and, perhaps, the more ships they'd be able to pull back to the LMC in case of emergency.

It may be that, out of sheer necessity, the Invaders would have had to have attempted to install one or more additional Desecrators in more distant satellites of the Milky Way, which in turn would be tasked at supporting other theatres of operation beyond the ones we know were launched from the LMC.

(I'm hoping this is the kind of thing we may learn more of over in SFB once Module X2 is finally published, and the time comes to unveil just how great a threat the Xorkaelians will pose to the Alpha Octant once their own assault kicks off in Y210.)

By Nick Samaras (Koogie) on Sunday, September 14, 2014 - 03:46 pm: Edit

I could see it as an optional rule where the andromedan player has to roll a die each turn to see if he losses forces or gains additional forces or EPS in the alpha sector. No need to be any more complicated that that.

PS Gary can you email me thx

By Gary Carney (Nerroth) on Sunday, September 14, 2014 - 03:52 pm: Edit

Nick:

That may be an option during the course of the invasion as it takes place in the Alpha Octant, but there may still be a need (or at least a use) for an "emergency reserve" in response to Operation Unity.

Also, email sent.

By Gary Carney (Nerroth) on Sunday, January 06, 2013 - 05:21 pm: Edit

Unfortunately, there has been no SFB scenario examining the Andromedan attempt at the WYN Cluster.

There is a note in the War of Return history in Module C3's (R12.1K) that many of the WYN-Orion ships in the Usurper's fleet decided to go home after news spread of the Inter-Stellar Concordium's intrusion in April Y187; it was this withdrawal that forced the Usurper to accept the SCS duel featured in (SH119.0):

---

Quote:

These ships arrived home only days prior to the one spectacular Andromedan attempt to invade the Cluster. But that story must wait for a future product.

---

By Chuck Strong (Raider) on Sunday, January 06, 2013 - 05:51 pm: Edit

I already know about the ISC failed attempt -- that was not my question.

Unless directed by ADB otherwise, I'm only going to consider info from this octant. I only want data or info on the Andro attempt on the WYN Cluster ONLY. I'm prepared to just say at this point that there is enough differences with the various galactic clusters to call them all uniquely different.

Bottomline: I only want WYN vs Andro data only and in the proper topic.

By Gary Carney (Nerroth) on Sunday, January 06, 2013 - 06:06 pm: Edit

I'll repost the WYN-Andro data in the WYN Cluster thread.

The reason why I even mentioned the Core operation was because of the note stating that the Andromedans saw the WYN operation as a re-run of Y183; they were forced to learn the hard way that the "special preparations" which they had made in the pursuit of the Core operation wouldn't work against the WYNs, since the latter shell turned out to be thicker (and more uniform in thickness) than they had prepared for.

I was not trying to add in a non-Alpha reference for no reason; while the WYNs neither knew nor cared of the Core operation until after Operation Unity, the Andros are noted as having explicitly used it as the template for their WYN operation.

With that said, I'll leave the Core operation out for now, unless advised otherwise at some later point.

By A. David Merritt (Adm) on Sunday, January 06, 2013 - 07:54 pm: Edit

Andros vs. WYN;
Probably the only part from the LMC Module you need to be aware of, is they used a pair of Dominators with specially designed Energy Modules that filled the Hanger space, save for a single SatB that was intended to extend the RTN into the Core. Presumably the Super Energy Module was to small to survive transit into WYN space.

Pure speculation; part of the reason they were building the the Devestator BB may be to ensure that no one could hide in WYN space, assuming it could carry larger S-EMs combined with the larger number of PA Panels on the base ship.

By Matthew Potter (Neonpico) on Monday, January 07, 2013 - 02:48 pm: Edit

(R12.1K) notes that "[the WYN fish ships] arrived home only days before the one spectacular Andromedan attempt to invade the Cluster. But that story must wait for a future product."

(P7.7) notes several things about the Andromedan interaction with the WYN radiation zone. Including "This will be explained in a future campaign about the one and only Andromedan attempt to [enter the WYN cluster]."

By Gary Carney (Nerroth) on Wednesday, April 20, 2016 - 06:31 pm: Edit

As Jean noted elsewhere on the BBS, the Star Fleet Battles Module X1R rulebook is now available in PDF form. For those who don't have it already, I'd recommend it as a key piece of source material which helps to shape and define what the Andromedan War will look like across the Alpha Octant.

-----

On another note, with Minor Empires closing in on print publication, there were a couple of topics which I had hoped to see addressed in that file - or, if not, to be accounted for in an appropriate place later on.

I had noted this over in the ISC War AAR thread, but it was pointed out to me that it might not be the best place to post such a topic.

More recently, it occurred to me that there might be an opportunity to tackle all of these issues at once: by using Andro War as the anchor for a "Second Grand Campaign".

The "First Grand Campaign" is well established, running from Y168 through to Y185. (Depending on what we see in Module X2, perhaps a "Third Grand Campaign" might one day involve the Xorkaelian Tyranny.) But in this case, I picture the "Second Grand Campaign" as running from Spring Y186 (with the onset of the ISC Pacification Campaign) through to Y202 (in the "standard" timeline) or to alt-Y207 (over in the "dark future" timeline).

Alongside the Spring Y186 Orders of Battle already provided in ISC War, my thought was to add in historical OOBs for the Andromedans, Seltorians, Vudar, LDR, and WYNs; while modifying and expanding the Driving Winds scenario to reflect the various flashpoints which sprang up on the eve of the Invasion proper.

So one could allow the Echelon of Judgement to smash the Hive Ship; to let the Romulan Civil War and Kzinti/WYN War of Return play out (and for their respective ISC interventions to be undertaken); to account for the postulated ISC-Vudar interaction from SFB Module R12; and, ultimately, to watch the fallout as the Invasion begins in earnest.

Indeed, one could even account for heightened Andro raid activity in these early turns; to include the historical Battle for Rimworld from Captain's Log #27.


Now, if it were to turn out that Tactical Operations were to be developed concurrently with Andro War, some of these scenario extension could be printed there; with the assumption that players could then combine them seamlessly enough with the historical scenario(s) in this volume.

Also, I may have suggested in an old (and possibly vanished) post in this thread that the remaining Civil Wars scenarios could be handled in successive issues of Captain's Log, even if Andro War were given the nod in the next round of F&E countersheets. If that were an option, this could still allow for provisional WYN, Kzinti, and Romulan material to be added to the Andro War rulebook, without skipping over those interim conflicts entirely.

(While there may or may not be any rules published for the WYN Cluster in and of itself, any "fish ship" stats drawn up for the War of Return would also allow for the WYNs to take part in Operation Unity.)


Of course, as with pretty much everything else in this thread, there may be quite some time before anything resembling a proper deliberation can be made on this idea.

But in the long run, I might wonder if providing the option of starting the Invasion on the fifth (or sixth) turn of a broader scenario starting in Spring Y186, as opposed to having the first turn take place in Y188 itself, may be a way to bring ISC War, Minor Empires, and Civil Wars yet further into the mix - as key elements of a "Second Grand Campaign".

By Gary Carney (Nerroth) on Thursday, June 23, 2016 - 06:13 pm: Edit

There are plenty of Captain's Log articles with notes, references, and details concerning the Andromedan War.

Most recently, the early portions of NCC-1821 USS Sakharov: Voyages of Discovery from Captain's Log #51 includes a look at the war as it was fought by the aforementioned GSX, along with a number of references to a handful of other Star Fleet X-ships involved in that conflict.

Later portions look beyond Operation Unity, so would lie beyond the scope of this module - though might be "running in the background" in the event of a future module (or modules) looking at the X2-ship/Xorkaelian invasion era.

As with CL49's Andro War article noted above, I should note that I wrote this article, though the final say on its contents was decided upon by ADB. Once again, this is not meant as self-promotion; I leave it to wiser minds to decide on the file's relevance (or otherwise).

By Gary Carney (Nerroth) on Sunday, May 10, 2020 - 04:48 pm: Edit

Another note for future consideration:


On the most recent provisional Andromedan SIT, most types of satellite ship are treated as equivalent to fighter factors.

For comparison's sake, the Federation has numerous types of "fighter factor" it eventually has to keep track of: to include F-101s (which it treats as the equivalent of other Alpha Octant empires' heavy fighters), A-20s, and F-111s. For example, (527.11) notes that each individual F-111 fighter is actually equivalent to 1.5 fighter factors, though these are accounted for simply as factors when operating a squadron of them in combat.

In the case of the Andromedans, would there be cause to treat most light, medium, and heavy satellite ships in a similar manner? As in, to have a Viper equate to fewer fighter factors than a Cobra, which in turn would be fewer than a Mamba?

Historically, the Andromedans steadily moved towards fielding larger and heavier satellite ships whenever possible; while a Mothership's hangar space would remain the same (barring a conversion to some other Mothership variant), they found it more effective in battle to carry fewer, yet larger, satellite ships in that same hangar space.

In F&E terms, would there be cause to approximate this in a manner akin to how the Feds handle their plethora of heavy fighter options? Or would the difference between an Intruder carrying four Vipers, or three Cobras, or two Mambas not be enough at this level of play to be worth bothering with?


If for nothing else, keeping track of separate "Viper factors", "Cobra factors", and "Mamba factors" might help keep conversions to and from RTN-capable satellite ship variants at an appropriate level. As in, an Andromedan player might be permitted to trade in "Mamba factors" (but not "Viper factors" or "Cobra factors"), plus some "displacement device installation fee", to produce a Python; or swap "Cobra factors" (but not "Viper factors" or "Mamba factors"), plus that same "DisDev fee", to produce a Reconnaissance Cobra.

By Stewart Frazier (Frazikar2) on Wednesday, April 06, 2016 - 07:12 am: Edit

Maybe LDR HDWL SIP - Special Integration Package
HDWL compot with SIP: 7(2)p/3-4(1)p

(525.23L)

If this mission is adopted, the ship is considered a light carrier (515.23) for purposes of escorts, but could operate as a single-ship unescorted carrier. An "HDW special integration package" (HDW-SIP) must be purchased which adds (+1) fighter factor and a half flotilla of PFs (+π) to the ship; and adds one-half fighter and +π when crippled. The LDR may build one HDW-SIP per year in addition to any other carrier group limits; there is no overall limit. HDW-SIPs cost 5 EPs (but could be built with up to 1.5 free fighter factors, each such factor reducing the price by 2 EPs) plus the cost of the three added PFs. Additionally, the HDWL is permitted to host one additional casual PF factor from a CPF as an exception to (524.221). Up to three CPF PFs can be integrated with 3 PF factors from the HDWL to form a standard flotilla of 6 PFs. The LDR cannot operate more HDWLs at any given time than it has HDW-SIPs. If an HDW is destroyed while deployed with a SIP, the SIP is lost. A SIP can be released by one HDW and immediately picked up by any other HDW in the same supply grid. Conversion from HDW-? to HDWL costs 1 EP if a HDW-SIP exists. There is no need to pay the cost of converting the one hybrid fighter on the HDW to ''true’' carrier status; this is assumed if the SIP is in use. See SFB reference (SH196) for historical use.

SVC SEZ: does someone want to write the required text and have it ready for me?

FEDS: Suggest we save this for AndroWar - too much to evaluate and not enough time to do it right.

By Gary Carney (Nerroth) on Wednesday, July 10, 2019 - 01:48 pm: Edit

(525.23) HDW MISSIONS: Over in one of the discussion threads for the future Tactical Operations module, there was a proposed "Z" configuration for the Federation HDW and HWX, which in Star Fleet Battles terms would deploy a "short squadron" of 4 F-111s and install a pair of special sensors, for eventual use against Andromedan RTN nodes once that opponent is to be faced in F&E. Both the HDWZ and HWXZ options have since been added to the most recently revised Federation SIT file. Should the list of missions in the pending revision to Advanced Operations be revised to include this "Z" variant, or should it wait until Tactical Operations and/or Andro War are themselves in development? - Gary Carney, 10 July 2019

(525.3) LIMITED PRODUCTION WARSHIPS: Apologies if this is not the correct place to suggest this, but here goes: in the prior edition of Advanced Operations, the Federation Powell-class GVX was included, yet its half-sibling, the Einstein-glass GSX, was not; perhaps as, at that time, no scenarios went as far as that latter class' YIS date of Y186. However, in light of ISC War's release, in which the first "post-General War" scenario was formally published, would there be an opportunity to include the GSX in the upcoming revision of Advanced Operations, were there to be room for "new" ships here akin to how the most recent edition of Fighter Operations was able to present various Four Powers War-era units for the first time? Or, since this class did not truly come into its own until the Andromedan invasion historically-speaking, should the GSX wait until Tactical Operations and/or Andro War are themselves in development? - Gary Carney, 10 July 2019

By Gary Carney (Nerroth) on Wednesday, August 14, 2019 - 10:57 am: Edit

I wasn't sure whether to post this as a Q&A question or to list it here, but I thought it worth addressing nonetheless:

(525.23Q) Survey (Q): Under the current rules, each empire may assign no more than a single heavy war destroyer to the survey mission at a time; the conversion must be done off-map. In light of the introduction of the advanced technology heavy war destroyer class in SFB Module X1R, should this rule be clarified as allowing for only one HDWQ or one HWXQ at a time, or updated to allow one HDWQ and one HWXQ at a time? And either way, would a given empire be obliged to install an X-conversion facility off-map, and/or to upgrade an off-map starbase to an SBX, before it would be permitted to deploy an HWXQ (or rather, to convert an HWX to the -Q variant before deploying it on the survey mission) in any event? - Gary Carney, 14 August 2019

By Richard B. Eitzen (Rbeitzen) on Wednesday, August 14, 2019 - 12:17 pm: Edit

I don't think those X1R units are in F&E at this time.

By Gary Carney (Nerroth) on Wednesday, August 14, 2019 - 12:37 pm: Edit

Of those empires with some measure of access to off-map areas, there are provisional HWX entries listed for the Federation, Klingons, and ISC in their respective SIT files. (The ISC file seems to have an error in terms of how the various HWX variants are designated, however.)

Alhough in the case of the Klingons, a further issue might be how willing (or otherwise) the Far Stars Duke would be to allow their guests to deploy both an HDWQ and an HWXQ at the same time, even if the rule were to be updated so as to allow empires with their own off-map zones to do so.

SVC says if we do not have counters in AO this should wait until we have them. If we do, rock and roll.
FEDS: Concurs with SVC as ADB has not yet to introduced HXWs into F&E -- maybe in AndroWar?...but not now...

By Chuck Strong (Raider) on Thursday, February 13, 2020 - 02:55 pm: Edit

REF: (525.23V) & (525.23H) Escort requirements for HDWV/Hs

These rules is conflict with SFB (R9.80).

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Quote:

(R9.80 ...Carrier: If operating eight or more fighters, this ship is a true carrier (R9.R4); see (J4.75), (J4.93), (J11.13), and (J15.22). If operating eight or more fighters [or six heavy fighters (J10.111)], it is required to have an escort. [If non-weapon option boxes, rear-firing optional weapon boxes, and the four marked APRs are used for fighters, the fighter group can be as large as 18 Stinger-2s, all treated as one oversized squadron (S8.32).] Demon Hunters operated as carriers will carry the type of fighter that is in common service for that year. Specifically note that Demon Hunters cannot carry more than one Stinger-H (R9.F4) per three fighters.

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Quote:

(525.23V) Carrier (V): If this mission is adopted, the ship is considered a medium carrier (515.23) for purposes of escorts, but could operate as a single-ship unescorted carrier.

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By Richard Eitzen (Rbeitzen) on Thursday, February 13, 2020 - 03:17 pm: Edit

It seems strange that they would operate as single ship carriers.

By Chuck Strong (Raider) on Thursday, February 13, 2020 - 05:10 pm: Edit

Raids perhaps...Much like the exception for the Fed DVL and CVF? We will need ADB to clarify when they are able...

SVC WILL DISCUSS WITH SPP

By Richard Eitzen (Rbeitzen) on Sunday, May 10, 2020 - 07:06 pm: Edit

(Yes, we will have SatShip counters.--SVC)

By Gary Carney (Nerroth) on Sunday, May 10, 2020 - 07:31 pm: Edit

I agree that there most likely won't be any real forward movement on this project any time soon. Although it would be welcome to see some sort of Andromedan preview in a future issue of Captain's Log, akin to the "lost empire" Paravian and Carnivon previews in Captain's Log #48 and Captain's Log #51 respectively.

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On that note, there is another other thing I wanted to post for future consideration.

At this time of writing, there are a number of empires which have unique systems that warrant some measure of representation at the F&E level. The (Neo-)Tholians of course have the web caster; their Seltorian nemeses have the web breaker/shield cracker; the Inter-Stellar Concordium has the plasmatic pulsar device; while the aforementioned "lost empire" Carnivons have playtest rules for the heel nipper, as shown on their provisional SIT.

I'm sure that wiser minds have thought of this already, but I wonder if there should be equivalent factors for the displacement device. Or perhaps even one factor per DisDev on a given Andromedan unit, with each factor allowing one of a variety of tactical functions to be used at a given time - such as displacing a target ship out of its formation bonus slot, separating an escort from the carrier it's supposed to protect, and so on and so forth.

For example, one SFB scenario which I think might one day make for a good test of... whatever the Andromedans end up looking like in F&E would be (SH247.0) from Module X1R. The defenders would have (more or less) the same ships as in this proposed setup. That might allow would-be playtesters to see how the Andros deal with a force of X-ships; use their displacement devices to interfere with the Echelon formation; and perhaps even show what is liable to happen when one keeps one's ships too close to a planet...

By Richard Eitzen (Rbeitzen) on Sunday, May 10, 2020 - 07:51 pm: Edit

I don't think being displaced into a planet needs representation at the F&E level. It's a really rare thing, in all my years of gaming, I've never seen it happen or talked to anyone that mentioned such a thing.

Some close calls, sure.

By Gary Carney (Nerroth) on Sunday, May 10, 2020 - 08:53 pm: Edit

Oh, I dunno. Perhaps if it was made to be a suitably long shot; say, by rolling 4 or less on 4D6. (Or maybe 5 or less, if fighting over a gas giant.)

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As another point of reference for future consideration, the (T12.0) Fall of Demorak campaign from SFB Module C3A might be worth reviewing closely when the time is right.

(SH247.0) makes for a good test battle to see how the invaders work tactically, and could perhaps be part of a broader look at the Andromedan campaign being waged against the ISC home worlds at that time. Yet perhaps the conquest of the LDR might make for a more manageable event, in terms of seeing how the jigsaw puzzle fits together at the strategic level, were there room for an Andro preview in a future issue of Captain's Log.

By Gary Carney (Nerroth) on Monday, November 01, 2021 - 05:36 pm: Edit

(Yet) another note for future consideration:

As noted in Prime Directive Federation, Star Fleet had number of "reserve" fleets - the Ninth through Twelfth Fleets - which were inactive in peacetime, but which "stood up" as and when required. Historically, the Ninth and Tenth were activated in the wake of the Klingon invasion, whereas the Eleventh and Twelfth went active following the Day of the Eagle.

Later in the General War, the Federation created two "area control" fleets: the Thirteenth Fleet supported the numbered fleets on the Klingon front, whereas the Fourteenth backed up those fleets on the Romulan front.

As noted in the Federation Y186 order of battle in ISC War, these "reserve" and "area control" fleets were "stood down" once the General War ended, though presumably their planning staffs remained on standby in the event of a future conflict.

However, there is one major aspect of the Andromedan War which might require a new approach: the need to defend a greatly expanded Survey Area. As noted in (625.542), the Feds historically earned 726 survey points by the end of the General War; by my reading of (505.21), that translates into twenty [(20×5)+(30×5)+(40×5)+(50×5) = 700] new provinces to patrol, and not a lot of ships assigned to do so. Which might be less of a factor during the ISC Pacification Campaign, but would very much become a problem once the Andromedans invade in earnest.

So, I was wondering if there might be a "reserve" Fifteenth Fleet on standby in the Survey Area, to be "stood up" once the Andromedans invade; plus an "area control" Sixteenth Fleet which could provide theatre support for both the Second Fleet and this proposed Fifteenth Fleet as and when necessary.

For comparison's sake, a number of other empires have assigned "line" fleets to cover their respective off-map zones as of Y186 - not counting the likes of the Kzinti Barony and the Lyran Far Stars Duchy, which maintain sizable "off-map" fleet assets as a matter of course. Indeed, on the eve of the Pacification itself, the ISC had both their Seventh and Eighth Fleets assigned to the Distant Zone, alongside the survey cruisers of the Ninth Fleet.

Of course, the question would then be where the Feds are expected to find the ships and support facilities needed to build up a would-be Fifteenth Fleet. Presumably a combination of transfers from other "line" fleets, plus a portion of whatever new builds can be spared to defend the Survey Area?

By John M. Williams (Jay) on Tuesday, November 02, 2021 - 05:21 pm: Edit

I know that historically the Andro invasion occurred when items covered in multiple expansions would be present (e.g., x-ships, the ISC, the LDR, etc.). Based on the comments/discussion above, it looks like the plan is to assume players already have these expansions. Would the Andro Wars concept also work with just the base game?

I don't own any of the expansions and am not sure if I ever will (the game is already pretty intense). However, I can't think of another "war" without a front line or safe area behind the front line, and fighting a game/war under those conditions is intriguing enough that I would likely buy Andro Wars if it can work with just the base game.

That said, it's probably safe to assume that people interested in Andro Wars would have already purchased some/all of the other expansions, and I may just be an "oddball."

By Gary Carney (Nerroth) on Saturday, November 13, 2021 - 10:45 am: Edit

While the major losses suffered by the Inter-Stellar Concordium's Pacification forces marked the onset of the invasion in the Alpha Octant, this by no means was the end of the Concordium's involvement in the conflict - either in their home space, or among their dispersed cantonments along the former Pacification cordons, or even on the way to the Lesser Magellanic Cloud as a substantial contributor to the Operation CodominionUnity task forces. So at the very least, this module should (in my view) presume the inclusion of ISC War as part of its setup.

Also, given the key role played by first-generation X-ships during the Andromedan War (and of the various X-raiders in particular, once the need arises to take down the Rapid Transit Network), I'd wonder if one might need Advanced Operations and Tactical Operations in order to set things up properly here.

That said, while the fall of the LDR was a defining event during this conflict, and while the WYNs did historically send a force of "fish ships" to take part in Operation Unity, I suppose one could make the relevant material in Minor Empires and Civil Wars optional, if it was deemed prudent to do so.

On a side note: while I can appreciate the wariness of delving into a series of expansions for an already complex base game, I might note that Fighter Operations includes, among other things, the Four Powers War scenario. This might provide an interesting and (relatively) self-contained alternative to scenarios set during or after the General War.

By Joe Stevenson (Ikv_Sabre) on Sunday, July 31, 2022 - 03:50 pm: Edit

My thoughts on representing the DisDev in F&E:

I have a few different ideas on how to represent the DisDev. Any combination, or all of the following make sense to me, based on my understanding of the DisDev.:

Defensive use
a) either negate a Directed Damage attack, or make it more costly; more costly means either treat the ship like it's in the formation bonus box, or if it already is there, make attacking it 4:1 instead of the usual 3:1. Picture the ship displacing out of the way.
b) unfreeze a ships frozen by an SFG; displaced away from the SFG beam, OR displacing the SFG ship, however one wishes to view it.
c) negate a mauler special attack (the mauler isn't REALLY that close)
d) reduce/eliminate the attack factors of a target for this combat around (like an SFG attack, but no extra vulnerability for the target ship)

Offensive Use
a) cripple one ship at 1:1 (it's displaced in front of the Andro fleet's weapons
b) remove ship in the formation bonus box; it's still in the battle and contributes, but it no longer has the added protection
c) remove ship from an escorted group; see b

Just some initial thoughts. I think I had a few other items, but I'm drawing a blank at the moment.

As I said, I don't suspect the DisDev would be allow all of these options (it'd be really freaking powerful if it did). But I figure it's a decent jumping off point.

By Gary Carney (Nerroth) on Sunday, July 31, 2022 - 04:26 pm: Edit

Perhaps there might be a difference in how effective displacement devices are aboard a mobile unit (such as a Mothership or a Python) relative to those aboard a fixed installation (such as a battle station or Desecrator starbase).

Whereas a Dominator can use its DisDev tricks when chasing after an enemy squadron - or if being chased after in turn - an Andromedan base cannot self-displace, and nor can it reach out all that far to target an enemy force which elects to bombard the base at medium to long range.

In SFB (but not in FC), Andro bases were given certain tools, like the temporal elevator, to help protect themselves from enemy seeking weapons. But whether it would be wise to factor those into F&E play or not is another matter.