I have a question about Orion neutrality.
In my current game, Orion neutrality was triggered by a Romulan SN interned in 2913. Turn 10, a Federation offensive cut off the western 3 provinces of Romulan territory from the main grid. Supply for the Orions can be drawn to the partial grid, but not the main grid. (503.512) states that the Orions will rejoin the Federation if no supply path can be drawn to "the Coalition supply grid." My question is, does this have to be the main grid, or does a partial grid qualify (i.e. any old grid). And if partial grids qualify, does that supply need to be paid for?
The point is maybe moot for this particular game, as I reconnected the partial grid on Coalition turn 11 (before the next Federation econ phase) but in case something like this happens again, I'm asking for clarification. Thanks in advance.

By Paul Howard (Raven) on Sunday, August 29, 2021 - 10:23 am: Edit

Sorry to chase - but William and I would like to continue our game, but can this one be answered please (and it's fairly major)?

Questions (and supporting information) was : -

413.41 - Can a Partial Supply Grid Supply pay for Allied Ships and Allied Replacement Fighters?

1) Can Allied Forces benefit from 413.41? Yes/No

2) Can Homeless supply (410.5) be used in a Partial Grid? Yes/No (and if Yes, if an existing supply line that has previously been used from the Allied Empire Main Grid - can it be transferred to the Partial Grid - or would it need to be cancelled and repaid for?)

Only related question was first answered in 2008 and reconfirmed in 2012 (CL38)

Pages : -
Federation & Empire: F&E QUESTIONS: F&E Q&A: Archive 2008 and republished Federation & Empire: F&E QUESTIONS: F&E Q&A Archive File: Archive through August 09, 2012


(Whole question/Answer copied)

(413.41) implies that Economic Points can be produced in a Partial Grid (note that this existed before the salvage rules); (430.12) says that "only those planets linked to a Supply Grid and provences that have one or more of their hexes linked to a Supply Grid produce Economic Points"; (413.1) indicates that a Supply Grid must include one or both of the Capital or Off-Map Area; (413.4) says that a Partial Grid contains neither the Capital nor the Off-Map Area.
Q: So, Partial Grids are both permitted and absolutely prohibited from producing EP. Which is correct?
A: Both, a Partial Supply Grid is not a Supply Grid and a Supply Grid is not a Partial Supply Grid. Each has their own definition and are treated separately


I believe the answers are ‘No’ and to aid the court :
Relevant Points
Expeditionary Supply (411.70) can’t be used in a Partial Supply Grid and 413.43, “No Allied Help”.

Thank you

Paul

By Peter Bakija (Bakija) on Sunday, August 29, 2021 - 05:51 pm: Edit

A question on Fast Ships (525.1).

One can mix Fast ships and non-Fast ships in the same reserve fleet (525.131). Non Fast ships in that reserve fleet *can't* move if moving attempts to take them to a legal destination hex that is further away than they can move (i.e. 7 hexes), in which case, the Fast ship would need to move without the non-Fast ships (525.131). But it seems that if the non-Fast ships can be dropped along the way to resolve pinning units in the way of the destination hex, the non-Fast ships *can* move with the Fast ship to a legal destination hex 7 hexes away.

Here is a specific situation.

There is a Klingon reserve fleet in hex 1013, that consists of a, FD7 (Fast) and 3D5 (non-Fast). This reserve force wants to go to Lyran SB 0411, which is 7 hexes away from 1013. There is a blocking force of 3 Hydran frigates (Command Rating 3 max) in hex 0513, which is the only legal path from hex 1013 to hex 0411 (LDR space is impassable).

1) Can any portion of the Klingon reserve force move?

2) Assuming it can, must it me the minimal force possible, as (203.7422) indicates that a moving reserve fleet must leave behind the minimal number of ships, which in this specific instance would be 1 ship (as the Command Rating difference between the Klingons and the Hydrans is big enough so that the Klingons could only leave behind 1 ship to resolve the pinning requirements)?

Given all of these factors, would the legal move here be the FD7 and a single D5 would be allowed to move as the reserve fleet, go through hex 0513, a single D5 would be left behind to resolve pinning, and then the FD7 could continue to SB 0411?

By Charles W Popp (Captnchuck67) on Tuesday, September 07, 2021 - 12:06 pm: Edit

quick question,
What can the Romulans do with the diplomatic EP they get for turns 1-10?

By Ted Fay (Catwhoeatsphoto) on Sunday, September 26, 2021 - 06:08 pm: Edit

Q537.35. This rule provides:

---

Quote:

Alternatively, the EWN player could (in a non-capital battle)
increase his BIR by one point (the attacker's BIR is not
changed).

---

By Richard Eitzen (Rbeitzen) on Sunday, September 26, 2021 - 09:59 pm: Edit

My guess is the whole hex and that the rule uses the lesser effect in a capital hex because +1 BIR would be too powerful when you have to eliminate numerous PDUs before it goes away. Outside of a capital hex, an EWN is not going to be based on 6-8+ planets and is much easier to get rid of.

By Chuck Strong (Raider) on Monday, September 27, 2021 - 05:48 am: Edit

TED:

Ref: (537.35) EWN Alternative Benefit

Unless overruled by ADB, the alternative BIR benefit from having an EWN in a hex only applies to battle hexes OUTSIDE of the capital hex(es); this includes ALL Romulan and Gorn capital hexes.

FEDS SENDS

By Paul Howard (Raven) on Friday, October 08, 2021 - 03:05 pm: Edit

Sorry - over 1 year since we asked the question - any progress on Partial Supply Grids and what supply can be done?

To help - main points was

410.51 - I believe this can only be used in the Main Supply Grid of the Supporting Empire

413.41 - I believe it is just for own Empire forces and not Allied Forces

i.e. Allied Forces in a Partial Supply Grids can only get combat supply if they remain in the hex of the Partial Supply Grid base (via the Captains Log CL38 ruling) and for all other purposes are considered Out of Supply.

Basis for these statements is : -

Expeditionary Supply (411.70) can’t be used in a Partial Supply Grid and 413.43, “No Allied Help”.

Thanks

By fabio poli (Fabioz) on Friday, October 15, 2021 - 01:47 pm: Edit

If the klingon choose to build another survey cruiser on turn 1, can send it to the Lyran off-map on the same turn like the two allowed by the OOB?

I would say yes, but i think it should be addressed by ADB.

By Thomas Mathews (Turtle) on Friday, October 15, 2021 - 09:14 pm: Edit

Fabio

Yes, but it will cost the Lyrans a strategic movement point as the third survey ship is not covered by the special strategic movement rules regarding the Klingon survey ships.

See (542.22).

By Chuck Strong (Raider) on Sunday, October 17, 2021 - 03:59 pm: Edit

QUESTIONS: (413.41) - Can a Partial Supply Grid Supply pay for Allied Ships and Allied Replacement Fighters?

1) Can Allied Forces benefit from 413.41?

FEDS RULING: Unless overruled by ADB, allied forces CANNOT benefit from partial grid unit supply support under (413.41) as there is no enabling rule to support such actions.

2) Can Homeless supply (410.5) be used in a Partial Grid?

FEDS RULING: Unless overruled by ADB, allied forces CANNOT benefit from homeless unit support in a partial supply grid under (410.5) as there is no enabling rule to support such actions. The homeless supply rules can only be used by eligible homeless allied units hosted within a host's main supply grid. Further, homeless unit support lines cannot be established or transferred to partial grids. In the case of split main supply grids (capital vs off map), the host may allocate any homeless support lines as needed between split main supply grids.

FEDS COMMENTS: While being an extreme example, a partial grid could be as small as a disrupted province with a single open space hex hosted by a crippled mobile base. It is the opinion of FEDS that in such a case like this, that the host empire will have a hard enough time supporting their own units, that there would not simply be enough material and logistical support to host allied units and their combat supply needs.

FEDS SENDS

By Paul Howard (Raven) on Sunday, October 17, 2021 - 04:58 pm: Edit

Hi Chuck

Thanks.

By Lawrence Bergen (Lar) on Monday, October 18, 2021 - 01:34 am: Edit

Is there an official rule that describes how minor empires can build Minor Shipyards found in rule 450.1? The OOBs just have the boiler plate blah blah at a Starbase or major planet most Minor Empires do not possess nor can build? Please point me to the enabler.

Can we get that off the OOBs? Can it instead reference the enabling rule that allows (or disallows) them to participate in this rule?

By Steve Cole (Stevecole) on Monday, October 18, 2021 - 10:49 am: Edit

There isn't; their should be; they're will be. But 450 is planetary ops, which we just refitted. I wish you had asked this in May.

By Richard Eitzen (Rbeitzen) on Monday, October 18, 2021 - 04:46 pm: Edit

If I recall, I brought that up when Minor Empires was being worked on way back when.

By Steve Cole (Stevecole) on Monday, October 18, 2021 - 05:37 pm: Edit

I don't recall that. If it had been put in the right place it would have been done.

By Steve Cole (Stevecole) on Monday, October 18, 2021 - 06:21 pm: Edit

Would just saying that an empire without a starbase can build it at a battle station get this done?

By Lawrence Bergen (Lar) on Monday, October 18, 2021 - 10:12 pm: Edit

It might have to say a "Minor" Empire w/o a Starbase but yeah I think it might work. Designating a minor empire from a major empire might be a good thing in this case.

By Steve Cole (Stevecole) on Monday, October 18, 2021 - 10:42 pm: Edit

I was going to just say "empire" so I didn't have to define a major/minor. If you hold the last Gorn province and the last Gorn BTS and the enemy leaves you alone long enough I'm okay with you building a battle destroyer yard.

By Mike Erickson (Mike_Erickson) on Tuesday, October 19, 2021 - 12:20 am: Edit

>> If you hold the last Gorn province and the last Gorn BTS and the enemy leaves you alone long enough I'm okay with you building a battle destroyer yard

That's actually pretty cool. The scrappy Gorns clawing themselves back from the brink of total annihilation!

--Mike

By Steve Cole (Stevecole) on Tuesday, October 19, 2021 - 02:03 am: Edit

Or seen another way, it's a reason to go ahead and wipe them out and not give them a chance to rebuild.

By Jeffrey Coutu (Jtc) on Tuesday, October 19, 2021 - 05:09 pm: Edit

@Lawrence, I think the following (copied from "CL54 F&E RULES & RULINGS") answers your question (unless I misunderstood your question):

(546.52) MINOR SHIPYARDS: The Seltorians may build a minor shipyard once they establish a base planet. The specific number of minor shipyard facilities are found under (715.22) and cannot exceed two FF and two DD facilities, one minor and one major conversion facility; one CL facility can be built, but only after a medium shipyard is established.

(714.2) LDR MINOR SHIPYARDS: The LDR may build a minor shipyard and a minor conversion facility in any hex of their territory other than 0711 (their capital of Demorak).

(717.2) VUDAR MINOR SHIPYARDS: One Major Conversion Facility activated in:
Fall Y172 inside “The Hole.” May build no more than:
two FW slips for 10 EPs;
one DW slip for 15 EPs;
one CW slip for 20 EPs;
two Minor Conversion Facilities for 10 EPs each.

By Lawrence Bergen (Lar) on Wednesday, October 20, 2021 - 11:21 pm: Edit

Excellent! I knew I had seen it but I'll be I couldn't find it looking for the 450 rule.

Thanks for the collaboration everyone and willingness to fix it quickly Steve.

I would ask Ryan to get that on the proper OOBs when he is free from the AO Scenario OOB push.

By Ryan Opel (Ryan) on Thursday, October 21, 2021 - 12:07 am: Edit

Now that TacOps is out the OOBs will be updated after we have finished updating the Maelstrom and Winds of Fire Scenarios.

Ryan

By fabio poli (Fabioz) on Thursday, October 21, 2021 - 07:34 am: Edit

SIT (Tacs Ops)
B10T & Lyran CLT: how they works in mission as rescue tug?