Yep! The Coalition started with:

DN(frm, flg), (CV+CWE+2DWE), 3CW, DWS(2AF:2EW), 4F5, D6S(frs), D6S(DBB) for 93/6

The Hydrans had

PAL(flg, frm) DG 2RN 8HR TG-S(frs) SB 162/5

There wasn't much change in the Hydran lines except that I brought in some PGS to give Karl a -2 shift and one TR at a time to take damage on.

By Paul Howard (Raven) on Monday, March 07, 2022 - 09:33 am: Edit

The lack of heavier hulls really hurt the Coalition in 617 - ending a major battle with F5's is OK - starting with them doesn't seem like a good idea though!

I am guessing once the CP's was spent, Karl also felt in for a penny, in for a pound and had to stay to avoid wasting what they had bled for?

By Mike Erickson (Mike_Erickson) on Monday, March 07, 2022 - 11:21 am: Edit

>> in for a penny, in for a pound

There is definitely an element of gambler's psychology in Capital and SB assaults.

--Mike

By Sam Benner (Nucaranlaeg) on Monday, March 07, 2022 - 05:06 pm: Edit

That's part of why I didn't start crippling CWs until round 4. I didn't think it'd be a disaster if the SB was crippled and I wanted to cripple as much of the fleet as possible, so I had to leave the possibility of destruction open. The SB could have been destroyed if I didn't take advantage of minus points (as seen by the 12 rounds we fought).

I'm not sure whether that was actually a factor - we'll have to see if Karl will weigh in.

By Ted Fay (Catwhoeatsphoto) on Monday, March 07, 2022 - 05:40 pm: Edit

Typically what I do is sail into Hydrax major with 150 compot lines on the first few rounds, and then have a sufficient depth of heavier hulls to maintain 120 compot lines for at least 10 more combat rounds.

This is what I did in Oderint Dum Metuant with Richard. He had a larger hydran fleet than this one, and ended up crippling nearly every ship - for horrendous Coalition casualties in return, but I did manage to take the capital.

Anyhoo, you can check out that game thread if you want the particulars on how that battle went on CT6.

---

Quote:

By Mike Erickson (Mike_Erickson) on Monday, March 07, 2022 - 11:21 am: Edit

>> in for a penny, in for a pound

There is definitely an element of gambler's psychology in Capital and SB assaults.

--Mike

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By Karl Mangold (Solomon) on Friday, March 11, 2022 - 02:33 pm: Edit

I'll say that Hydrax has been a siege for going on 6 turns now; both the Hydran and Coalition fleets are about equal, with heavy hulls all having been eviscerated and not replaced. Hydrans and Klingons only have one DN each, and their fleets are mostly CWs(Hydrans) and D6 variants(Klingons) + a bunch of frigates. My rationale for putting F5s on the line is that the Lyrans could prop up COMPOT enough to score SIDS, which was the goal, and F5s were the only expendable ships the Klingons had (~30 of them in the hex). Putting all the good ships on the line to start would have just resulted in half of them getting crippled in exchange for Hydran fighters straight off the bat. Given that I didn't have replacements for a lot of those heavies, the F5s were able to get the job at hand done. The biggest risk was that every 1 or 2 rolled did not produce enough to direct a SIDS on rounds Sam was able to overcripple, so there were at least 3 rounds where no SIDS were scored. Odd numbered damage points!) Mind you also, the PDUs are gone/planets devastated already so this is essentially a plain SB assault.
My goal was simply to cripple the SB...pushing too far long have wrecked the coalition fleet in exchange for the base, while leaving the Hydran fleet with most of its SEQs intact. This was the main reason ultimately to turn around after only 6 SIDS were scored; the Coalition would be vulnerable to counterattack AT13 if I didn't play my cards right. Turns out removing repair capability from 0617 was a moot point since all the crippled Hydrans retreated out to 0718 where there are no repair facilities anyway. I suppose if the Hydrans spend their income repairing SIDS instead of building hulls I won't complain.

By Sam Benner (Nucaranlaeg) on Sunday, March 13, 2022 - 02:18 pm: Edit

A13 Econ:

The Kzinti earned 63 EP, but had a little less than that available due to heavy drone bombardment on A12. They build TGC 3MEC 8FF and repair Z6M 3CV 5MEC 7FF. Hopefully this means they have enough ad-hoc light escorts...

The Hydrans get 15 EP, build RN HR plus CU offmap and repair 4SIDS. I might pin the Coalition out, but there's no need to take chances. They end with 92 EP in the Old Colonies.

The Federation gets 143.8 EP, builds DN+ 9NCL 10FF, activates CA 3CL 3FF, and repairs CVA 2TG 4CA 10NCL LSC CL DD 4DE 11FF 3FFE. They also convert a FAL to use photons and repair it. The 6th Fleet SB is separated but gets 4 EP plus 2.4 salvage and repairs 2DE 2FF FFE.

The Gorn get 88.2 EP and build BC CL HD HDS BDE 3BD. They repair BC 2HD BD 4DD and convert DD to BDS and 4CL to CCs.

I have almost enough SEQs to do what I want in each theater but not quite, so it's proving difficult to settle on any one course of action. Plus my 1 year old decided to turn off my computer while I was pondering and now I need to re-ponder.

By Richard Eitzen (Rbeitzen) on Sunday, March 13, 2022 - 08:05 pm: Edit

"Are you pondering what I'm pondering?"

"I think so, but if they called them 'sad meals', no one would buy them."

By Paul Howard (Raven) on Monday, March 14, 2022 - 03:42 am: Edit

Just checking the Hydrans started with 4+ Ep's or smuggled some in : -

The Hydrans get 15 EP, build RN HR plus CU offmap and repair 4SIDS

Each SID (at Base Repair rate, which it can be) is 2 Ep's, so thats 19 Ep's I believe spent in 617 (assuming sufficient Free Fighter factors are also available)?

By Sam Benner (Nucaranlaeg) on Monday, March 14, 2022 - 10:12 am: Edit

Yeah, they started with 0, got 15 from income (3 devastated minors, 2 devastated majors, one undevestated major in the capital; two disrupted provinces; and 0718 devastated). They got 1.25 from salvage and the rest from transfers.

The Hydrans have been smuggling a little every turn to make sure they end every economic phase with an empty treasury.

By Sam Benner (Nucaranlaeg) on Wednesday, March 16, 2022 - 11:57 am: Edit

Breaking news!

The "peaceful" Gorn have invaded the Romulan Star Empire, striking at the undefended homeworlds! Though there are merely a dozen Gorn ships present, there are 8 minor planets with no defenses but a pair of PDUs. Following an unprovoked Gorn assault in the spring of Y174, the Romulans sent a few ships into Gorn space to warn against further aggression, destroying a BATS as a show of force. The Gorn appear to have not heeded this warning, striking deep into Romulan territory.

At Romulus, the Gorn have DN CC 2HD BD DD HDS. At Remus, they have TG-B CC 2HD BD DD. All of the Romulan reserves are pinned, so there's no help coming.

The Federation are reclaiming all of their Romulan-occupied planets as well as 3415, 3912, and 4112. They're also destroying BATS 3715, leaving only a single (easily-cut) possible supply path to southern Fed space.

The Kzinti are likewise attacking everything in their territory. They've also put a few ships on 1707, which only has 2 SIDS remaining. There are about an equal number of defenders at this point. The Lyrans and the Klingons both have small reserves in range, so it might not get crippled this turn.

Plenty of moves left to go.

By Paul Howard (Raven) on Wednesday, March 16, 2022 - 12:55 pm: Edit

Ouch.

Well, the SB can aid some planets....

...but would have sending everything to Romulus to smash the capital planet on the cheap been an option?

(SB+8 PDU's wouldn't be nice, but you probably could have let damage fall and get 6+ SIDS on the SB and have killed possibly some of the PDU's?)

(Remembering the free G-Attack if you don't have Troops ships also being used).

With some luck, the SB could have died - but probably not (probably 20 compot short of that happening).


I did a quick calc - and you would be modestly lucky to get 6 SIDS and 2 PDU's (the 12F from Remus could react in) - while crippling all the Gorn - so probably 1 capital planet assault too far!

By Sam Benner (Nucaranlaeg) on Wednesday, March 16, 2022 - 01:07 pm: Edit

It was really close to me attempting it, but I didn't have enough ships in range. I could have got 2 more DD into the hex - but I sent a few ships to capture Pavarak (5403) and so I didn't have enough ships total to keep them from getting pinned by BATS fighters.

My other options with the fleet included killing SB 4812 (no defenders), killing SB 4411 (a pinned reserve, so I'd probably get it but also lose much more - but it's a more important base), killing an FRD in 4313 and taking the planet there, and killing the Remus starbase (not quite enough ships). I spent a long time agonizing over my choices.

By Graham Cridland (Grahamcridland) on Wednesday, March 16, 2022 - 01:44 pm: Edit

It depends on whether or not there is any possibility of getting Gorns (or Feds I guess?) back into the hex the following turn. SIDS and PDUs in the shipyard system aren't relevant unless you are going to threaten to actually take it.

I can't imagine that could happen, but the Romulans are obviously under almost unimaginable pressure this game...

By Richard Eitzen (Rbeitzen) on Wednesday, March 16, 2022 - 01:50 pm: Edit

The forces listed were 96 or so compot.

Going against a SB 48 and 8PDU 72 = 120, plus 12IFF from the minor planet = 132, with 72 fighter factors.

The Gorn would have had to burn through all the fighters if they drop damage, so best thing they could realistically do is kill 3-4 PDU and come back another turn (assuming they attack Remus).

Better I think to just devastate all the minor planets they can focus down.

By Douglas Lampert (Dlampert) on Wednesday, March 16, 2022 - 02:19 pm: Edit

Devastating a bunch of minors costs the Romulan's money.

My understanding is that the Romulans on turns C14 and C15 are (typically) not all that rich to start with, and that things get really tight on C16.

Economic damage is good.

By Graham Cridland (Grahamcridland) on Wednesday, March 16, 2022 - 02:55 pm: Edit

The Romulans have a fantastic and flexible SIT so they can spend efficiently almost any amount of EPs. Taking them away is great, although if you are in Romulan space enough to hit both capital hexes, then the Romulans obviously have big problems anyway.

By Sam Benner (Nucaranlaeg) on Wednesday, March 16, 2022 - 03:45 pm: Edit

The Gorn have a great staging ground in 4608 - only 5 hexes away from Romulus. Honestly, the big problem is that the Feds still hold the 6th Fleet SB and could strike in to pin a good reserve in 4112. The BATS in 4611 is still standing, so there's a real chance that the Gorn don't have a retrograde path, depending on what happens in SSC.

By Paul Howard (Raven) on Wednesday, March 16, 2022 - 04:08 pm: Edit

Well, lots of choices for the Gorns!

- and yes, the Romulans never seem 'rich' with their build schedule (with very few cheap hulls).


If the Gorns had just attacked one hex - they could have probably stripped 6 PDU's off the Capital?

(Direct 3 PDU's on round 1, Direct 1-2 PDU's on round 2 and the Free G attacks might get 1).


Nice to see an Alliance attack on a Coalition home world though.

By Karl Mangold (Solomon) on Wednesday, March 16, 2022 - 11:19 pm: Edit

Well, this is a bit of a surprise, I have to say. I was assuming that the FRD in 4313 would be toast, or the weird extra SB in 4812...not the capital. RIght now half the Romulan fleet is in Federation space, including the fleet that just finished off the 7th SB last turn. That fleet in particular would be really useful to have in the Gorn theatre right now.
Not sure how far they will get, though. The attacking fleet of 15 ships is split between both Romulus and Remus. This is a vanilla game so no G attacks, no SAFs...capital assaults are a blue-collar affair.

By Sam Benner (Nucaranlaeg) on Thursday, March 17, 2022 - 01:24 am: Edit

Operational movement is done! The Feds are hitting the rest of the BATS on the Fed-Klingon border - 1807 and 1811 with decently sized fleets, and 2416 and 2517 with smaller fleets (and there are a few Klingon ships at the latter two bases). They're also aiming to drive the Klingons off of 2403 and leave them out of supply.

The Hydrans attack the Lyran fleets in 0416 and 0517, though not with overwhelming force - I didn't want to draw the Klingons in to fight so that I didn't have any risky SSC in Hydran space. Plus, this way they can have a reserve of DDs if they want to.

Battle hex count: standard/SSC
Hydran space: 2/7
Klingon space: 8/3
Kzinti space: 3/6
Fed space: 3/9
Romulan space: 9/5

Total: 25/30

Given that most of the SSC is heavily weighted in my favour... the Coalition looks likely to lose a lot of frigates this turn.

Reserves are next.

By Paul Howard (Raven) on Thursday, March 17, 2022 - 03:21 am: Edit

Karl

Gorn's will still be able to use 308.87 the Special Gorn Attack.

Weirdly, one of the more powerful 'non-stoppable' rules!

William has had modest success with it - and certainly it's helped killed bases and stripped 2 PDU's last turn from Romulus in our game.

By Stewart Frazier (Frazikar3) on Thursday, March 17, 2022 - 10:18 pm: Edit

Going against a SB 48 and 8PDU 72 = 120, plus 12IFF from the minor planet = 132, with 72 fighter factors.

Note that PDU fighters can NOT be pulled for IFF, only base fighters (even within the same system). (511.572)

By Karl Mangold (Solomon) on Friday, March 18, 2022 - 06:35 am: Edit

Ah, I totally forgot the Gorn "special attack" is in the basic rules. Well, there's something else to worry about I guess. Truth be told, I've only had one other game that even made it to Gorn entry, and I didn't remember them being much of a threat. Here's my hard lesson in Underestimating them.

By Karl Mangold (Solomon) on Friday, March 18, 2022 - 06:43 am: Edit

Incidentally, the attrition of province-holders (for the coalition especially) I find to be a little-discussed matter. Of course I always try to have them in adjacent hexes, so one can react in and subsequently run away, but even still 50% of these frigates die. It contributes significantly to pincount erosion for the coalition, which is not easily answered when the alliance (especially Kzinti and Hydran) retreat to a single hard point, or worse, off-map.