Archive through August 31, 2022
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Archive through August 31, 2022
Hydran Eco (corrected) for AT8:
A8 ODM Hydran eco
*Old Survey: 59
*A6 Survey roll: 5 + 2
*New Survey Total: 66.
*Previous Treasury (A7 end eco): 0.24EP 3FFF
*Spent A6: 0
*A6-C7 salvage: 0.
*End C8 treasury: 0.24EP.
*Income: 1.5FFF, 0 EP(Onmap) 17 EP(Offmap) + 5 EP (HR survey) + 6EP(survey) +20 (Guild treasury3-6/6) = 1.5FFF 48 EP.
*National Debt: 0EP
*Pay interest: -0EP
*Borrowing limit 10.
*Pay debt 0.
*Extra exhaustion turns: 1/2.
*Current Treasury: 48.24 4.5FFF
Current Debt: 0 EP.
*Production:
ENG FF MSY #1 T1
8 Med SY (turn 3 of 6)
Free POL Callup(0116) PT
Free PG-V
6 + (3+1 + 4.5FFF) LNH-V
2.5 CU(OM SB)
----------------------------------------------------
20.5 EP
Conversions:
2 2DG->2LB(OM, CDR)
Repairs:
15 2DG 2TG HR CU 2DE
Free Add PAL THR TR HN to depot.
Borrowing limit remaining: 10EP.
Treasury at end eco: 10.74EP, 0FFF, 0CP, 0EP debt.
Correction: Kzinti survey is 91, not 89.
@Mike:
Coalition: DN+ADM(Form)(CMD) {TGA+VP+PT AD5+PT F5E} 3*CW F5L F5 DWS D6S MD5 TGC+AA TG+A TG+S(FS) D6D(DB) = 115 Compot 9ew
Alliance: DN(frm,flg,adm) CL 2FFK CV(PT)+MEC(PT-capture)+FKE CV+MEC+FKE CV(PT)+MEC+FKE TGT(2SP,FRS) SB(18-6) 140/10.
Support: TGT(2G)
Thx!
--Mike
*A8 Kzinti Eco (Corrected: fixed survey total, removed carrier)
*Start survey total: 82.
*Survey roll: 7+2(PT).
*New total: 91.
*Treasury 21.54, FFF(end of A6).
*C8 borrowed: 0
*A8 Wyncovia = 5.61EP(start).
*A8 trade rights = 12.67(start)+6 (new) = 18.67.
*A7-C8 Salvage: Expended on DBB.
*A7-8 DBB.
*A8 start turn treasury: 21.54 EP 0FFF.
*A7 debt at turn start: 22.5 EP.
*CPs: 0.
*Income:
*On map (outside capital hex): 3 (1502 1602 1704 -disrupted) + 4(1202 1401) = 7.
*Off map: 17+8 = 25. 10 point satellite stockpile at OM SB.
*Capital: 5 (Kzintai) + 6(3 dev major) + 4(4 dev minor) = 15
*Captured nz: 0.
*Captured provinces: 0.
*Captured planets: 0.
*Other income: 4(DIP).
*Total income: 51EP.
*National debt: 21.5EP.
*Borrowing limit: 10.2.
*Interest payment: 2.15EP.
*Pay debt: EP.
*Current treasury balance: 71.39EP 12FFF.
*Production:
2.5 FF(sub DN)
8 TGC (sub BC)
23 3MEC LTT(sub 4CM)
18 FFK FKE 2FF FFG FFS(one FF OM)
0 Activate PT
2 Callup POL 1701 FLG 1401.
0 (OM) MSY-FF#1(ENG)-T1
6 (OM) MEC (MSY-CM#1) (OM Satt Stockpile 4 EP left)
----------------------------------------
59.5 Total
*Conversions:
Free (OM) CLE->CL (depot)
1 (OM) FFK-FKE (0.5 from OM Satt Stockpile 3.5 left)
-------------------------------------------------------
0.5 EP
*Repairs:
3.5 (OM) DD SR (now 0 sattelite stockpile).
-----------------------------------------
0 EP
Depot
Free CLD FF enters depot
Free CVL CLE FF repaired by depot
-----------------------------------------------------------
63.5 Total
*EPs Borrowed: 0.
*New Borrowing Limit remaining: 10.2.
*Current debt: 22.5EP.
*Treasury: 7.89EP, 12FFF.
--- Richard Eitzen
Kzinti build FSD in 1401 and MSY-FF#1 T1 offmap with ENG )treasury - 6 EP).
(Feds built 3MSY FF on A7).
Kzinti correction: 2FHL perform missions at Vielsalm and Keevarsh for 1 EP (borring .11 EP). Corrected eco will be forthcoming.
*A8 Kzinti Eco (Corrected: fixed survey total, removed carrier, add FSD, add 2FHL missions)
*Start survey total: 82.
*Survey roll: 7+2(PT).
*New total: 91.
*Treasury 21.54, FFF(end of A6).
*C8 borrowed: 0
*A8 Wyncovia = 5.61EP(start).
*A8 trade rights = 12.67(start)+6 (new) = 18.67.
*A7-C8 Salvage: Expended on DBB.
*A7-8 DBB.
*A8 start turn treasury: 21.54 EP 0FFF.
*A7 debt at turn start: 22.5 EP.
*CPs: 0.
*Income:
*On map (outside capital hex): 3 (1502 1602 1704 -disrupted) + 4(1202 1401) = 7.
*Off map: 17+8 = 25. 10 point satellite stockpile at OM SB.
*Capital: 5 (Kzintai) + 6(3 dev major) + 4(4 dev minor) = 15
*Captured nz: 0.
*Captured provinces: 0.
*Captured planets: 0.
*Other income: 4(DIP).
*Total income: 51EP.
*National debt: 21.5EP.
*Borrowing limit: 10.2.
*Interest payment: 2.15EP.
*Pay debt: 0 EP.
*Current treasury balance: 70.395EP 12FFF.
*Production:
2.5 FF(sub DN)
8 TGC (sub BC)
23 3MEC LTT(sub 4CM)
18 FFK FKE 2FF FFG FFS(one FF OM)
0 Activate PT
2 Callup POL 1701 FLG 1401.
0 (OM) MSY-FF#1(ENG)-T1
6 (OM) MEC (MSY-CM#1) (OM Satt Stockpile 4 EP left)
6 FSD (1401)
1 2FHL missions at Vielsamn and Keevarsh.
----------------------------------------
66.5 Total
*Conversions:
Free (OM) CLE->CL (depot)
1 (OM) FFK-FKE (0.5 from OM Satt Stockpile 3.5 left)
-------------------------------------------------------
0.5 EP
*Repairs:
3.5 (OM) DD SR (now 0 sattelite stockpile).
-----------------------------------------
0 EP
Depot
Free CLD FF enters depot
Free CVL CLE FF repaired by depot
-----------------------------------------------------------
70.5 Total
*EPs Borrowed: 0.
*New Borrowing Limit remaining: 10.2.
*Current debt: 22.5EP.
*Treasury: 0.89, 12FFF.
*A8 Gorn:
*Initial treasury: 3DIP EP.
*Income: 4DIP EP.
*New treasury: 7 DIP EP.
Production: (PWC) DNL (2nd Fleet) HD 2BD BDS.
*Conversions:
*Home Fleet: (5) CL->SR .
*New Treasury: 2 DIP EP.
*Tholians:
*Production: 2919:PC, AWT.
*Conversions: 2919: 2PC->BW PC->PCE.
*One neutral planet in the Rom NZ (312)went Neutral.
A8 ODM Federation eco
*Old Survey: 23
*A7 Survey roll: 28 + 2 + 1 = 31.
*New Survey Total: 54.
*Previous Treasury (C8 end turn): 0EP 0FFF
*A7-C8 salvage: 0.
*Income:15FFF, 221EP(base) + 4 EP(survey) - 10 EP (Orion) - 1 EP (Captured/Disrupted provinces) 12(6 captured provinces) - 3 (one captured minor) -5 EP(Raids) = 194 + 4 DIP EP = 198.
*National Debt: 28.25
*Pay interest: 2.83EP
*Borrowing limit 39.6.
*Pay debt 0.
*Borrow EPs: 39.6.
*Current Treasury: 234.77EP 15FFF 1CP
*Production:
18 CVA(15FFF)
10 LSC (SUB ECL)
14 2DE
6 TG(sub CA)
17 2NCL NCD (sub 3NCL)
9 3FF (2204 2211)
48 8FF (overbuild)
8 Activate TG 3CL DE 3FF
5 CP
12 2 Convoys (3601)
5 PV FLG(callup)
Free 2POL Callup(2609 2612) PT
3 2SWAC(one free)
2 2COL
6 FSD#1 at SB2204.
5 CP
10 (ENG) 3MSY-FF (OM)
----------------------------------------------------
179 EP
Conversions:
3 (3611) CA->CC DD->DE
3 (3604) CA->CC DD->DE
3 (2204) D5->(F)D5
9 (2211) DD->DE FF->FF FF->FCR
---------------------------------------------------
18
Repairs:
6.5 (2204) 2CA D5 FF
2 (3215) FF CFF
-------------------------------------------------------------
8.5
Borrow EP.
Total spent: 206.5. EP.
Borrowing limit remaining: 0EP.
Treasury at end eco: 28.27EP, 0FFF, 2CP, 67.85EP debt.
*Kzinti raid pool has 2BF TGT(2G) LTT. Ltt blockade runs to WYN, take 0.88 EP, picks up 5.61 EP. Trade rights is now at 24.56 EP. WYNCOVIA is at 1.32EP. Treasury is now at 5.62EP. LTT returns to raidpool. BFs raid (staging from offmap) 0803 and 0906, TGT(2G) raids 1107. Go ahead and decide your reaction and do all rolls.
*Hydran raid pool is 2x(LB+PT) TG(2G), all stage from offmap. LBs go raid 0614 and 0119. TG(2G) raids 0117. Go ahead and decide your reaction and do all rolls.
*Fed raid pool is 2x(LB+PT) TG(2G), all stage from SB 2211. DNL+PT goes and raids 1711, CF+PT goes and raids 2016, NCL+PT goes and raids 1711, TG(G) goes and raids 2017. TG(2G) raids 0117. In 2211, TG(2VP)+FF goes to 2112 and does a fighter-raid with 12iff against 2012. Go ahead and decide your reaction and do all rolls. TG blockade runs 10 EPs to the Kzinti offmap and puts them in a satellite stockpile (10 EP here now), Fed treasury is now at 18.27EPs.
*Rebellion raids against 1504, 1105, 2715, 0718, 0416 and all in 0617 fail.
*For some reason, 1910 is unoccupied but has no PDUs. Please confirm this status is correct.
*Infiltration is attempted at 1001 but fails.
Alliance raids are successful, disrupting a Lyran controlled province and eight Klingon controlled provinces. A fighter raid by the Feds also cripples a Fed tug.
In operational movement, the Hydrans did nothing.
The Kzintis did a major attack on 1802 which has light defenses. They also sent a full carrier battle force to 1001 and hit a few pickets in their space.
The Federation hit a few pickets, a lightly defended BATS and sent a large force 40+ ships to the NE Klingon BATS. That could be a real fight.
Last turn reseves mostly split up and moved forward to the 3rd and 4th SB to improve their defense.
Combat is over.
There was only one large battle round (over 1807) where the Coalition drove off the Feds after an approach round, crippling a CVB group and a CL, then killing a SC in pursuit. The Coalition lost a TGC(with a troop pod) and got a Klingon BT crippled, as well as a D5 and a D6D or something.
The Feds otherwise lost an FF (and the Kzintis an FF) and took a cripple or two, crippling three or four Coalition ships and killing a D5, an FFT and a few other FF sized ships.
A8 end. Feds send most ships to 4th and 3rd SB. Kzinti uncrippled ships are mostly at 1401.
*Reserves:
Kzinti:
1st (OM): 2FF TGC(2VP) 2CVL 3MEC 2FKE SF
2nd (1401): BT 2CC BC CL DD 6FF CLG
Fed:
1st (2609): CC 10FF LSC
2nd (2606): ADM 2PT 2CA NCL CL 3DD CVA 3DE 2SWAC NCD LSC
3rd (2606): BT CC 2CL 6FF CFF SC
4th (3611): ADM DN DNL CC 2CA 3NCL 2DD FF SC FFS
Hydran:
1st (OM): ADM 2PT BT 2LB HR 2CU LNH-V PGV 2DE FCR LAV
2nd (OM): ADM MMG 2LN SA 2CU GRV 2FCR
*Kzinti treaury:
Main 15.25 EP 0CP 12FFF. (Salvage redemeed).
Debt: 22.5EP. Borrowing limit remaining: .10.2 EP.
Trade rights is now at 24.56 EP. WYNCOVIA is at 1.32EP.
(OM) Satellite stockpile: 10EP.
*Fed treasury: 8.27 EP 2CP 0FFF (salvage redeemed). Debt: 67.85 EP. Borrowing limit remaining: 0EP.
Hydran treasury: 10.74EP 0CP 0FFF.
*File attached.
The game progressess. Nothing too weird in the Coalition economy, they do a lot of repairs, pay off some debt (but still have a lot) and do the normal things.
In raids, the Lyrans disrupt a Kzinti province (a DNL+PT took on 4 POLS and a FLG). The Klingons and Romulans disrupt 6 Fed provinces.
In operational movement, the Klingons strike a bit further into the Federation, there will be a big battle in 2106 and some fights over BATS.
In Kzinti space, the Coalition send forces to capture 1001, 1202, 1502 and 1802.
Operational movement continues.
Operational movement is mostly done.
The Klingons get a lot of ships pinned at 2205 but send 15 to a mostly undefended SB 2204 (even the fighters there reacted out). Probably won't take the base if a strong reserve should happen to come buy.
Planets 2509 and 2610 are under attack (2610 has defenders), as well as BATS 2609. How all this will go will depend on where reserves end up.
Klingon Eco
Lyran Eco
Romulan Pre-War Eco
Richard's summary is essentially correct. I'll add commentary.
SB2204 is "undefended", but I have no illusions that it will go down. True, I proceeded to attack it with a small fleet of 15 ships that remained unpinned after he reacted everything off of it and a nearby planet to pin the bulk of my approaching fleets. However, there are two strong reserves in range. Thus, I would be surprised if at least one were not sent to save the SB. Nevertheless, I went ahead and attacked 2204, as opposed to going elsewhere, in order to force at least one reserve to go to 2204, or for the Feds to suffer the loss of 2204 (which I really don't see happening). I knew this was Richard's intent when he reacted everything off.
Overall, the Coalition is in a bad place. While the Hydrans are offmap and badly wounded and the Kzinti are largely confined to 1401, I have not had such a bad board position against the Federation in many years of F&E play. In part this is due to Richard's well-played and vigorous defense. I have not been able to develop infrastructure, as I have had to repair ships, and borrowed a lot to do it.
This turn I had to pay the piper or else suffer early economic exhaustion (which is something like 100+ EPs of damage, plus all the accumulating interest). So, I left a substantial cripple backlog, built no infrastructure, and paid enough enough national bet for both the Klingons and Lyrans to prevent myself from experiencing the worst negative effects of too much debt.
This, in turn, has made it *impossible* to advance further into Fed space. First and foremost, I just don't have the ships to do it. On CT10 things will be a bit better as most of my repaired cripples will go the Federation front, and by CT11 (with the Roms in the war) most cripples will be both repaired and back on the front.
Second, the new 537.1 resistance movement rules (as interpreted by Richard and agreed to by me) make it VERY VERY hard to advance simply because it is hard to capture supply points. No longer can you capture an Alliance planet, sit on it, and have a supply point. Instead you MUST have a PDU *and* a G ship in orbit (or a IGCE... which would require at least a PGB before you could even buy the IGCE). Otherwise, the captured planet goes into automatic rebellion and - poof - you no longer have a captured supply point.
However, building all that additional infrastructure to secure supply points costs money. Combined with Richard's die-hard "fight till you can fight no more" approach to this game, the Coalition simply does not have the funds to BUILD the infrastructure needed to establish supply points deeper in Fed space (the needed PDUs or MBs), AND build it's needed ships, AND repair everything.
Looking on it, Richard's "die-hard" strategy (my word, not his) is brilliant in view of the 537.1 rule change. The Coalition is forced to make VERY hard choices between infrastructure, repairs, and new construction, and that in turn slows down the Coalition advance.
While I *could have* bought PDUs so as to occupy Fed planets and use them as supply points, or built and deployed a MB, without the SEQ to defend them it would be a rather pointless waste of money. So I focused on repairing the enormous cripple back log. But now I don't have the supply chain to go deeper into Fed space.
According to my calculations, so far the new 537.1 resistance movement rule has cost the Coalition over 100 EPs in lost revenue and extra expenses that were not necessary before the resistance movement rules were changed. (First and foremost, the rule change that a captured planet *automatically* goes into rebellion unless TWO DIFFERENT ones of a PDU, IGCE, or G ship in orbit are present).
Very frustrating, because the game is now playing very differently than it used to - and I did not anticipate all of the implications until now. A sign of my lack of foresight and intelligence, I suppose...
Anyway, don't mistake my little rant as being bitter, because I'm not. This remains an interesting game and I intend to see it through, regardless of how it unfolds. The next time I play, assuming the new 537.1 rule remains unchanged, I'll be able to better plan for having the supply points I need - though there's little I can do if the Alliance fights all-out over every hard point.
Naturally, such a choice has cost Richard as well. Most of the Hydran fleet remains crippled, as does a substantial portion of the Kzinti fleet. Obviously the Kzinti will recover more quickly, but the Hydrans will eventually recover as well, so I can't discount them. However, on the whole, the Federation remains largely intact with most of its economy and THAT means I will have hell to pay much earlier than normal.
Anyhoo, I do want to see what happens. After all, it would be kind of cool if by turn 30 Richard is knocking on Klinshai's door, much less Romulus' door! I've never been in a GW F&E game where the Klingon capital is attacked. Not that it will definitely happen here, as I will give Richard my best effort. All I'm saying is that even if my board position is bad compared to my prior games as Coalition I still find the game interesting and will do my best until some final victory condition is achieved.
Who knows? I've come from behind before, sometimes dramatically! YMMV.
Combat will begin shortly, as I finished operational. I reinforced the attack on BATS 2611 with another modest fleet of 15 ships and added a few more ships to the attack on planet 2106. But mostly things should be predictable.
I over extended, so some of the fights will be done OOS for the Klingons, but I perceive failing to prosecute and attack as being... criminal somehow! Q'pla!
(537.11) STEP ONE — FAILURE TO SECURE: Any occupied planet without two of the following [IGCE on planet, PDU on planet (not PGB), commando ship in orbit] automatically rebels (537.15). Place a residual defense factor (RDF) (508.16) on the planet. Planets that were neutral before they were captured do not rebel.
The rule indicates two of the following, not two different?
If using the "two different" reading (which may in fact be correct -- I'm not sure), wouldn't that mean that (for example) 10xPDU on the planet or 10xD6G in orbit would be insufficient to prevent rebelling?
But using the "two different" reading then 1xPDU and 1xD6G would be sufficient?
--Mike
@Mike: The rule is not clear. One could read the list as exclusive or inclusive. If exclusive, then you need two DIFFERENT ones. If inclusive, then you only need two of ANY of them (e.g., 2*G ship in orbit).
In my other game against Gary Quick (Conflagration) we're reading the rule inclusively. And the results are DRAMATIC in the ability of the Coalition to prosecute the war.
In this game, the rule is read *exclusively*, meaning your example of 1*PDU and 1*D6G would be sufficient, but not 2*D6G.
I have a Q&A on this issue on the BBS, but to my knowledge it has not been answered yet. However, IMO this is a MAJOR rule change because of the dramatic implications it has on the cost of generating all the PDUs (or MBs) and the time needed to establish your supply chain and the difficulty in defending your expensive supply chain investments.
We'll see what the powers-that-be end up ruling. But... woof... 537.11 is a doosey of a rule change, whether it was intended to be or not.
I see. I certainly sounds like a big swing in outcomes. I guess we'll see what the ruling is.
I wonder if there is a possible balance factor here? Assuming that the rule ends up as inclusive, I wonder if a balancing factor could be the need for the Coalition to deploy a PDU in order to fully capture a planet? Or maybe just a major one? As you've noticed, this can really slow down the Coalition so it might be useful for when a less experienced player is facing a more experienced one? Just thinking out loud.
Good luck with cranking out all those PDUs! :-o
--Mike
I suppose the question is - have either side built many Supply Convoys?
(They only seem to get built if you can use them to alter a critical retreat path, which will happen later in that game turn, but rarely seem to be built).
Or the OPB?
Tugs and FRD's combo's can also be used - but they are slow AND you can't easily leapfrog them forward (as you need to get the Tug near the required hex the turn before it's needed).
...and so yes, captured Planets are ideal, but there are other options 
(The loss of the Ep's for not capturing them though is fairly important too).
@Paul:
Yes. Supply convoys extend supply, but they do not serve as retrograde points or SM nodes.
It is true that tugs and FRD combos can serve the function. However, two things: 1) Don't forget my temporary (but important) SEQ problem defending such mobile supply points. 2) Don't forget I stated earlier I hadn't foreseen all of the massive implications of the 537.1 rule change. If the exclusive interpretation of 537.1 holds, then in future games I will anticipate using things like tugs, FRDs, MBs, convoys, better held planets, etc. to establish critical supply points. Going forward I will do so as well, but in the meantime the critical slowdown in the Coalition advance has already happened.
However, regardless, even if you do anticipate, an exclusive interpretation of 537.1 is a watershed change in the way F&E is played from prior years, and it also represents a truly massive pro-Alliance shift in game balance. I don't argue that that is bad, as it remains to be seen - only that it is a tectonic shift in game play and game balance.
The OPB is not available until Y175. It is Y173 in this game right now.
As you indicate, loss in EP from not capturing planets, combined with the now required EPs to be paid for the additional supply infrastructure is also quite telling - particularly if the Alliance fights hard (like Richard is doing here).
We'll see, I suppose. My Qs on the 537.1 issues remain unanswered. Most of these issues might go away simply by having an inclusive interpretation of 537.1 (where all it takes is two G ships to prevent auto rebellion and thereby have a cheap and easy supply point.)
My personal preference would be for inclusive, and also allow a GG ship (like D6G or aux) to be the 2xG ships.
So basically if the Klingons can leave a single D6G or 2x[D5G, F5G, E4G] at a planet it will not rebel.
--Mike
You and me both, Mike...