Nick, I think you're right. I think I see an unintended double entendre in the wording of the rule. My dyslexia is getting worse in my old age.

By Ken Kazinski (Kjkazinski) on Friday, November 25, 2022 - 01:57 am: Edit

Question on movement, once I start to move a ship or fleet do I have to use all the movement before moving to the next ship or fleet? Meaning can I move fleet A 2 hexes, then move fleet B 6 hexes can come back to fleet A to use the rest of the movement available?

By Ken Kazinski (Kjkazinski) on Friday, November 25, 2022 - 02:03 am: Edit

NVM - found the answer in (203.12) SEQUENCE.

By Thomas Mathews (Turtle) on Tuesday, November 29, 2022 - 09:39 pm: Edit

Q105.0-M17 3A2F: States: Reacting ships forced to retreat must do so (314.244). Should this state: Defending ship(s) forced to retreat must do so (314.244)? Reason: This is the only step in which the defender would be forced to retreat if they took a retreat casualty to resolve 1 of casualties they took under (310.32).

By Peter DiMitri (Pdimitri) on Wednesday, November 30, 2022 - 06:33 pm: Edit

(446.12) CONSTRUCTION: The developing empire must send
to the hex by operational or strategic movement a tug or two
LTTs [Mission (509.1X)] or a convoy (civilian or military but not
commercial), which must remain in that hex for three consecutive
turns. If the tug/convoy leaves the hex or is destroyed, development
is canceled, and all EPs spent for it are lost. Romulan
KRTs, SPHs, and 3FEs all count as LTTs (516.0) for this purpose.

It takes 6 FEs to establish a colony??? Can this be correct? You need 2 KRTs even though they are full tugs?

By Thomas Mathews (Turtle) on Thursday, December 01, 2022 - 08:49 pm: Edit

The following is presented to FEAR and FEDS for consideration as a friend of the court.

Planetary Operations 2004

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Quote:

(446.12) CONSTRUCTION: The developing empire must send to the hex by operational or strategic movement a tug or two LTTs [Mission (509.1X)] or a convoy (civilian or military but not commercial), which must remain in that hex for three consecutive turns. If the tug/convoy leaves the hex or is destroyed, development is canceled, and all EPs spent for it are lost. Romulan KRTs, SPHs, and 3FEs all count as tugs for this purpose.

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Quote:

(446.12) CONSTRUCTION: The developing empire must send to the hex by operational or strategic movement a tug or two LTTs [Mission (509.1X)] or a convoy (civilian or military but not commercial), which must remain in that hex for three consecutive turns. If the tug/convoy leaves the hex or is destroyed, development is canceled, and all EPs spent for it are lost. Romulan KRTs, SPHs, and 3FEs all count as LTTs (516.0) for this purpose.

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By Lawrence Bergen (Lar) on Thursday, December 01, 2022 - 10:14 pm: Edit

I think I see the issue here. It appears the original rule tried to treat all units as a tug. The introduction of stepped capabilities for different sized transports made the attempt to clean up the rule for the SPH but missed on the FE groups (which is also now breakable into single FE's).

Suggest instead:
(446.12) CONSTRUCTION: The developing empire must send to the hex by operational or strategic movement either a tug or two LTTs one Tug or two LTTs or three Theatre Transports [Mission (509.1X)] or one convoy (civilian or military but not commercial), which must remain in that hex for three consecutive turns (also see Partial Mission Tasks 509.23). If the tug/convoy leaves units performing the mission leave the hex or is are destroyed, development is canceled, and all EPs spent for it are lost. Romulan KRTs, SPHs, and 3FEs all count as LTTs (516.0) for this purpose.

L. BERGEN - 1 DEC 2022

FEDS: CONCURS with above suggestion.

By Ryan Opel (Feast) on Thursday, December 01, 2022 - 10:26 pm: Edit

I think Lar's version is better.

FEAST - 1 Dec 22

By Lawrence Bergen (Lar) on Thursday, December 01, 2022 - 10:34 pm: Edit

We were on the phone discussing it so its a dual friend of the court effort

Turtle did point out it should go over to PO AA Reports

By John Christiansen (Roscoehatfield) on Monday, December 05, 2022 - 12:14 pm: Edit

"If the units performing the mission leave the hex or are destroyed, development is canceled, and all EPs spent for it are lost." Does this imply that if any, but not all, of the units survive and is/are not forced to leave that the EPs are not lost and the mission continues?

By Stewart Frazier (Frazikar3) on Monday, December 05, 2022 - 06:48 pm: Edit

Technically, I'd say that each element (when using LTTs/TTs) holds part of the funds and if they retreat or are destroyed, that portion of the funding will have to be made up for in a later turn (remembering that one cannot overspend to make up the difference) ...

For example, if using 3 TTs fr a colony and one is destroyed, then it will take four turns for completion (since one turn had only 2/3 EP spent) ...

By Jason E. Schaff (Jschaff297061) on Monday, December 12, 2022 - 09:29 pm: Edit

OK, not sure if this should go here or in the AO after action reports, but I just noticed something in the new AO rules that was not in the original. Specifically,
"(314.246C) Target ships cannot use cloaked evasion (306.1) to avoid a raid."
Is this as broad and general a statement as it appears? It is a subsection of the rule on dealing with cloaked raiders and so seems out of place.

By Daniel Glenn Knipfer (Dgknipfer) on Monday, December 12, 2022 - 11:44 pm: Edit

To go with Jason's question:

If you cannot use (306.1) to evade a raid due to (314.246C) should you be able to use (302.1) to withdraw before combat from a raid?

I would think no; but I have not found a specific rule covering this.

By Stewart Frazier (Frazikar3) on Tuesday, December 13, 2022 - 07:23 pm: Edit

Successful raids are usually a surprise against its target ... look up the surprise rules (D18.0) and set up the raider 100 hexes from you, you have less than three turns ...

By Richard Eitzen (Rbeitzen) on Tuesday, December 13, 2022 - 07:45 pm: Edit

Generally raiders can be seen by the local base which warns prospective targets. Sometimes that doesn't matter and you get a successful raid.

Rarely, the raider ends up undetected and close, but usually not.

By John Christiansen (Roscoehatfield) on Saturday, December 17, 2022 - 08:46 am: Edit

Stewart, "set up the raider 100 hexes from you, you have less than three turns" makes no sense. The maximum ship speed during a SFB scenario is 31 hexes per turn. Starting 100 hexes away when you can only move a maximum of 93 hexes during the time allowed doesn't work. 35 hexes away at the beginning of the scenario is the logical maximum starting distance.

Although this distance isn't exactly in line with (D17.0), it allows for little bit of the hesitation from someone not believing what is seen at the moment.

By Lawrence Bergen (Lar) on Saturday, December 17, 2022 - 11:52 am: Edit

John, with the exception Richard notes in a static location base/planet (which are not technically static as they are moving in an orbit with an orbital rotation), what Stew refers to from 100 hexes is that units are typically moving toward one another...this takes about 3 turns unless both are moving at single digit speeds. One unit at least wants to engage so this is unlikely.

The SSC and combat/withdrawal rules are in Basic set so this question about withdrawal of cloaked units should likely be asked then answered then added to the update thread so it can be referenced/cross referenced at the time of the update.

Note SSC and Raids (using SSC) currently allow ship with cloak to use said cloak offensively whether they are the target or the raider. Not the issue but just thought I would point it out.

By John Christiansen (Roscoehatfield) on Saturday, December 17, 2022 - 03:55 pm: Edit

Lawrence, my continued comments are in the discussion page.

By Dal Downing (Rambler) on Monday, December 19, 2022 - 05:26 am: Edit

What is the maximum number of Attrition Squadrons or Flotillas you can have in a Battle Force?

By Thomas Mathews (Turtle) on Monday, December 19, 2022 - 05:46 am: Edit

Dal, see (302.332) and subsequent sub rules.

By Richard Eitzen (Rbeitzen) on Monday, December 19, 2022 - 02:28 pm: Edit

The maximum probably involves 20 PDU and a SB defended by a Federation fleet using the 3rd way and SWACs(for extra fighters).

Or if Hybrid ships are allowed for this, perhaps such a static defense defended by Hydrans utilizing lots of fighters.

By Jamey Johnston (Totino) on Monday, January 02, 2023 - 02:14 am: Edit

Rule 503.611 has a parenthetical note I'm quoting here for convenience:
(as is reflected by a few
special case rules, such as the prohibition against the Lyrans
entering Klingon space or hexes 0805 and 0905, since this would
provide overt proof that an alliance exists).

But I can find no special case rules anywhere that mention these restrictions.

Is that something that existed in a version before the 2010 version, but the parenthetical note was missed for striking? Or is there supposed to be a special case rule that was omitted from 2010 rulebook?

i.e. Can a Lyran ship enter Klingon space and/or either of those hexes?

By Jamey Johnston (Totino) on Monday, January 02, 2023 - 02:20 am: Edit

I answered part of my own question, found it in 601.1611 that says Lyrans cannot enter Klingon territory on turn 1. So that covers that.

So that just leaves the NZ part:

Can Lyran ships enter 0805 or 0905 on turn 1?

By Richard Eitzen (Rbeitzen) on Monday, January 02, 2023 - 05:19 am: Edit

"Can Lyran ships enter 0805 or 0905 on turn 1?"

No. See (503.61).

By Jamey Johnston (Totino) on Monday, January 02, 2023 - 06:33 am: Edit

Fair enough, I mean I saw the parenthetical note, but given how it is worded I thought there might be another rule somewhere that explained it.

On the surface, I don't really see a reason why 0805 would be any different than, say 0808, since Wyn adjacent hexes are allowed by 503.64. Thanks for the clarification!