Archive through January 01, 2024
Star Fleet Universe Discussion Board: Federation & Empire: F&E QUESTIONS:
F&E Q&A Discussions:
Archive through January 01, 2024
Quote:By Sean Dzafovic (Sdzafovic) on Thursday, July 13, 2023 - 09:35 am: Edit
For the Gorns, would this be all of the planets devastated in ALL capital systems? Or just the planets in shipyard hex?
All systems would at least be consistent with the rules for capital capture and victory conditions.
It is mine and Lar's belief that all in the case of the Gorns and Romulans this means all planets in all capital system hexes.
Looks like my most earlier in the week on Unreleased fleets has got lost!
In brief therefore : -
600.30 States Unreleased Fleets can't move until released.
600.313 gives the ability for up to 6 ships to move 'Operationaly' within that fleets area.
(PLus there is the rule allowing 1 ship to go to a SB if the Fleet area doesn't have one).
Therefore - assuming 'Operationally' does refer to Operational Movement - it seems the Strategic Movement can't be used on Unreleased Fleets?
If oeprationally is just a phrase rather than a link to Operational movement - I think the rule would be limited to six ships in total - not 6 operationally and 'unlimited' (to normal limit of that Empire) Strategcially.
That would seem to disregard the 'cannot move' rule!
"operationally" is an operative word, and as far as I've ever seen, only ever refers to movement during the Operational Movement phase.
Quote:By Joe Stevenson (Ikv_Sabre) on Friday, July 14, 2023 - 12:34 pm: Edit
Question on the Eye scenario regarding the Romulan IWR.
The IWR rules say ships can only be activated from the IWR when the Rom are at war with both the Fed and the Gorn, or if either Rom capital hex is attacked.
It should follow that since the Gorns are allies, the requirements are satisfied, but the scenario rules should say that. Otherwise, the Romulan IWR is trapped.
Can someone confirm this was not the intent?
I believe it should be Turn 2 same as the Klingons.
(501.542) Carriers which are repaired receive replacement fighters as part of the repair step. Carriers and FCRs‡ received from Depot Level Repair‡ (424.31) receive replacement fighters at the same time the carrier is received.
Is RCR a "repair step"? Would RCR of a carrier generate its fighters in the middle of the battle?
No it is not.
A situation came up in my recent game, and we were wondering how to handle it (it ended up being moot, but could arise in a future game).
The Coalition has conquered all of Hydran space except the capital and the planet in hex 0718. The Lyrans have blocked any potential supply route to the offmap area. The Coalition then conquers the capital, which would normally force the Hydrans to retreat to 0718 because it is the only available supply point. However, in our game, a small Klingon force was already in 0718. This force was smaller than the retreating force so Priority 2 would not apply.
If hex 718 has enemy units in it, do the Hydrans still have to retreat into that hex? All other hexes had been previously eliminated by the supply situation. If they do have to retreat to hex 718, does that turn the pending battle in 718 into a fighting retreat?
John
It would be a normal retreat.
Fighting Retreats only happen if the force retreating in effect has two or more hexes to retreat to.
On this occasion - a single hex is a partial supply grid and no other hexes have supply - so 718 by default is where they have to retreat to.
They could retreat again and as all hexes are Out of Supply - could go anywhere - even 617 (if they outnumber the Coalitioin Eq's) - but that would be a Fighting retreat - assuming 1 or more other hexes are empty 
Coalition can in effect dictate where the Hydrans have to retreat to, if they do 718 after 617.
If the Coaltion don't want them in 718 - the Coalition have to do 718 first - and so although the Hydrans can still retreat to 718 - it WOULD then be a fighting retreat, as 718 is not a supply source then.
Paul, one minor change, if the Hyrdrans retreat out of 617, they cannot later retreat back to 617 for any reason.
Believe this is a CL add-on to prevent the above (or a ring-around fight pattern) ...
Stewart -
I believe that is incorrect.
If you retreat from 617 - 617 can no longer be considered a Supply Source - but there is nothing to stop the Hydrans retreating into 617 if either there was a valid reason to do so (416 was still Hydran and it's the only supply point for example) - or no hex had priority and the Hydrans Fighting retreated into it - and then retreated again.
Might have missed a rule change in CL - but the only thing I can remember (which never became a rule in the end) was the 'retreat 3 times and die rule', which was designed to stop the daisy chain retreating over several hexes.
Retreat sub-priority 3E specifically forbids retreating back in 0617. "For example, a Hydran force on 0617 which retreats to 0718 cannot thereafter retreat back into 0617 as part of the same battle."
I know this has come up in my games, and you absolutely can retreat back to a hex that you've fought in - it just can't be a supply source, so you'd need a supply source on the other side in order to do so. Paul's got this one correct.
Quote:(302.733) SPECIAL-PRIORITY-3E: In the case of multiple or chain retreats, any hex abandoned during a previous combat round in the same chain of events cannot be considered a supply point for subsequent retreats. For example, a Hydran force on 0617 which retreats to 0718 cannot thereafter retreat back into 0617 as part of the same battle.
Thus you cannot "YoYo back to 0617 in the same player turn."
NOTE The above rule excerpt is copied directly from the 2010 Rulebook except that the quote marks are missing around the word battle at the end of the rule because of a formatting issue with discus.
"...cannot be considered a supply point for subsequent retreats."
But if all hexes are not in supply (no supply point available), then isn't this step ruled out, thus making all hexes available again?
I mean, it specifically says you cannot go back to 0617 after retreating from there, but that was because 0617 was no longer a supply source, which assumes there is another supply source that takes precedent. It doesn't sound like it totally overrules 0617 entirely.
Correct
Retreating back into a hex you have already retreated from is difficult - as normally another hex would be in supply.
At best, if every hex is out of supply - the Hydrans could retreat back into 617 - but assuming the Coalition didn't also retreat - it would be a fighting retreat.
Another question came up in today's game.
Klingon Fleet A is on an SMN. Klingon Fleet B moves into the same hex as A, and then the Kzintis react into that hex as well. No further movement occurs, and after combat the Kzinti fleet retreats, leaving both Klingon fleets in the hex with the SMN.
Are the ships in Fleet A eligible for strategic movement? Technically, they didn't move, other fleets moved to them. 507.21 suggests that the ships in Fleet A could be in a reserve fleet (since they did not move or retreat), and I would like to strategically move that reserve fleet to a more optimal position.
Yes, as Fleet A did not move, the ships from Fleet A are eligible for strategic movement. Any crippled ships from Fleet A would not be eligible to be placed in a Reserve Fleet.
If I understand correctly, on AT3 a Klingon Reserve Fleet in hex 1013 (which would have to be composed of West Fleet ships or new construction) would be able to travel along the neutral zone hexes to assist the Lyrans if the Hydrans attack hex 0413. However, once there, the fighters on Hydran battlestation 0714 would block the supply path back to 1013. Thus, at the beginning of CT4, these ships would be declared homeless, and the Lyrans would have to decide whether to pay the extra cost of supplying them or leave them unsupplied. Is my understanding correct?
John
"Yes".
Unless the Coalition have another reserve fleet on AT3...which can wierdly go to 413.... as those Klingons are Out of Supply, and so a new battle to reopen supply can be done.
One of the most stupid rules in my opinion - if you put your fleet out of supply - you shouldn't be able to use another reserve fleet to get it back into supply.
Yes, that is definitely one way things could work out. Another option might be for the Klingons to build a convoy in 0908 and then have it move 2 hexes into 0709. From 0709, it could then extend supply down to 0413 as well as to most of the southern part of the Lyran empire.
--Mike
RE SAF escorted or not question
Thanks gents for taking the time to look into it. I would say it is a gap in the rules that will need to be closed.
Even if what you are pointing at is considered true there are additional points to consider.
Another GAP: Phasing player force with SAFs during operational moves is reacted to. This force is the attacking force but is not actually 'attacking' that hex (because its a reaction battle hex). In this case the defender is pre-emptively attacking the force to get at the SAFs. This is only a fine line from what my Q is regarding moving all my SAFs into a hex (with only some I intend to use in combat). These SAFs would be otherwise unprotected if left outside the hex so I brought them along.
I tend to agree with the finding about once escorted they cannot drop them per the rule. They can be shot away however.
I offer an exception to this 'No dropped escort rule' if only from the standpoint that an SAF 'may' be able to do this in order to enter combat (thinking is if the escorts were previously assigned they CAN be dropped but the SAF escorts count against the command in this case). I offer the penalty would be for this exception the loss of 1-2 slots work of combat potential. the benefit being the ability to use the SAF in combat as normal. The whole existence of an SAF is to perform this sacrificial combat duty.
Anyway I will wait for the ruling before making any official proposals
Hmmm, (520.5) covers when SAFs are not assaulting bases/PDUs which includes the escort ability and formation bonus use …
Note the condition, escorted only when not assaulting ...
I am interested in the interaction between rapid combat repair (425.3) and capital assaults. There is an old question from Dana Madsen, dated 12/15/2016, with a partial answer that only helps a little. I am not reproducing it here because I want to rephrase.
Suppose a ship is RCR'd during a capital assault. What force does it go into?
If it happens during the approach battle, I think it's clear that if things later proceed to a base battle, the ship is treated like any other uncrippled ship.
But what if the RCR happens during the base battle? Let's say the RCR happens at Earth. What force does the repaired ship go into? One could divide things into subcases:
Case A: The ship is fast. My answer would be it goes into the mobile force.
Case B: The ship started the battle crippled.
Case C: The ship started the battle in a static force in any system.
Case D: The ship started the battle in the mobile force.
In cases B-D, my answer would be that the ship ends up static in the Earth system, regardless of where it started. Crips go to Earth, and there is no provision to re-assign them after RCR.
I'd be interested in others' take on this.
Alas, I think you will need to re-flag the question for an answer - as there seems to be zero link/timescale between 511.532 (which is outside the normal 'repeat steps 5 to 8' and so not part of the normal SoP) and phase 5-6X8 when Rapid Combat repair takes place.
On 'thoughts' - it would seem an argument for allowing the ships to remain Fast/Mobile if the ship started in that category - but equally the ship 'has' to leave the front line and so becomes a static ship in the system where it is repaired?
Escorts being crippled mess up the balance I think - I would be more 'comfortable' for game balance that RCR'd Escorts can remain wih the rest of the group, if it was in a Mobile Group - but individual ships less so!
if a ship stayed in the static pool - it does make RCR less valuable - but it still has value, so is that enough?
So, I would go for : -
Escorts (but NOT** if the Carrier is crippled and RCR'd) in Groups in the Mobile Pool RCR'd can remain with the Group in the Mobile pool
All other ships if crippled are moved to the relevant Static System pool - and even if RCR'd remain in that System.
** - Adds to the idea that Escorts are rapidly repaired to get back in the combat line and are able to operate normally (and the full repairs are done at a non-relevant point later) but other ships still have limitations on the ship capacity, even if they on the face of it appear fully operational?
I would think that if the ship is repaired using RCR after the combat round it was damaged in it would go back to the force it was originally assigned to. If repaired via RCR in a later round it would still be stuck at the planet in question.