I've played that a crippled SB cannot manufacture new frigates.

Admittedly, in my games, SB have not often been crippled, and if they were they usually didn't last long in that state.

--Mike

By Chuck Strong (Raider) on Thursday, April 18, 2024 - 06:33 am: Edit

Crippled starbase production question answered in Q&A topic.

By Ted Fay (Catwhoeatsphoto) on Friday, April 19, 2024 - 04:51 pm: Edit

Request to FEDS:

Please continue to announce here when you answer questions in the Q&A topic by editing the original question post.

Thank you.

By Ted Fay (Catwhoeatsphoto) on Wednesday, April 24, 2024 - 10:00 am: Edit

Comment on Dan's challenge to the FSD ruling, assuming it's directed to the COE's inability to reduce the cost of of a FSD:

If I understood correctly, I don't necessarily oppose Dan's challenge. However, I'm more concerned about the result than the technical rationale for the rule. *Should* a COE be able to reduce the cost of a fighter depot - from a game perspective. That's the real question in my mind.

By John M. Williams (Jay) on Wednesday, April 24, 2024 - 06:16 pm: Edit

During CT3, are the Lyran Enemy's Blood Fleet and the Klingon West Fleet released? It's clear that they cannot attack the Hydrans, but can they do other things that released fleets can do during CT3?

By Warren Mathews (Turtle) on Thursday, April 25, 2024 - 07:39 am: Edit

John, No they are not released until the Hydrans enter the neutral zone and do not submit to internment on turn 3 or the Klingons and/or Lyrans attack on turn 4 or later. They may do certain things under (600.3) until they are released.

By Benjamin Lee Johnson (Jedipilot24) on Thursday, April 25, 2024 - 07:51 pm: Edit

Ahem, from the rulebook:

TURN #3, FALL Y169
Historical: Hydrans attack Klingons and Lyrans.
Hydrans are not required to attack. Klingons and/or Lyrans
cannot attack Hydrans. If Hydrans do not attack, released Coalition forces available against the Kzintis.
LYRAN: All Lyran Forces are available.
KLINGON: All except Eastern Fleet and Home Fleet. Home
Fleet is released if Hydrans enter Klingon territory. The Klingon
Southern Reserve is released on Turn #3 only if the Hydrans
attack the Lyrans or Klingons.
KZINTI forces Available: All except for six designated ships
from Marquis Fleet.
HYDRAN forces Available: All; Old Colonies (709)

By John M. Williams (Jay) on Thursday, April 25, 2024 - 09:48 pm: Edit

Hence my question. The rule states that releasing the Klingon Southern Reserve Fleet requires a Hydran attack, but I don't see anything in that text that requires a Hydran attack to release Enemy's Blood or West.

By Benjamin Lee Johnson (Jedipilot24) on Friday, April 26, 2024 - 07:59 am: Edit

The Southern Reserve is released on Turn 3 if the Hydrans attack, and on Turn 4 regardless.

The Enemy's Blood and Western Fleets are released on Turn 3 but can't attack the Hydrans until Turn 4.

By Warren Mathews (Turtle) on Friday, April 26, 2024 - 08:11 am: Edit

Benjamin, if the Hydrans do not attack the Klingons and/or Lyrans the fleets in question will not be released until turn 4. Remember, at this point of decision for the Hydrans, the Alliance is the phasing side and they are the phasing side after the coalition has completed their half of the turn as the phasing side.

By Benjamin Lee Johnson (Jedipilot24) on Friday, April 26, 2024 - 09:50 am: Edit

Once again, from the rule book:

TURN #3, FALL Y169
Historical: Hydrans attack Klingons and Lyrans.
Hydrans are not required to attack. Klingons and/or Lyrans
cannot attack Hydrans. If Hydrans do not attack, released Coalition
forces available against the Kzintis.
LYRAN: All Lyran Forces are available.
KLINGON: All except Eastern Fleet and Home Fleet. Home
Fleet is released if Hydrans enter Klingon territory. The Klingon
Southern Reserve is released on Turn #3 only if the Hydrans
attack the Lyrans or Klingons.
KZINTI forces Available: All except for six designated ships
from Marquis Fleet.
HYDRAN forces Available: All; Old Colonies (709).

TURN #4, SPRING Y170
Klingons-Lyrans can attack Hydrans and/or Kzintis.
LYRAN forces Available: All.
KLINGON forces Available: All except East Fleet.
KZINTI forces Available: All except six ships from Marquis
Fleet.
HYDRAN forces Available: All; Old Colonies (709).

By John M. Williams (Jay) on Sunday, April 28, 2024 - 12:02 pm: Edit

Turtle, to get to your conclusion, the rule should say: "Lyran Enemy's Blood Fleet and the Klingon West and Southern Reserve Fleets are released on Turn #3 only if the Hydrans attack the Lyrans or Klingons." However, it doesn't say that.

Instead, for Turn #3 it says: "Lyran: All Lyran Forces are available." There is no limiting clause requiring an attack by the Hydrans to release Enemy's Blood. Similarly, there is no qualifier related to the West Fleet. Therefore, both should be treated as released on CT3.

Maybe it was intended that these fleets are not released on CT3, but that's not what's written.

By Ryan Opel (Ryan) on Sunday, April 28, 2024 - 05:03 pm: Edit

Not sure what you gain by releasing the fleets on CT3 since you don't know the Hydran Setup yet.

By Benjamin Lee Johnson (Jedipilot24) on Sunday, April 28, 2024 - 06:24 pm: Edit

The Lyrans could, for example, set up the Enemy's Blood MB at 1013.

By John M. Williams (Jay) on Sunday, April 28, 2024 - 09:48 pm: Edit

Another example would be that the Lyrans could try to immediately upgrade the battle station in 0413 to a starbase. This might convince the Hydrans to attack 0413 under less than ideal circumstances.

By Ryan Opel (Ryan) on Sunday, April 28, 2024 - 10:32 pm: Edit

Neither would be active for the Hydran attack.

Easy kills for the Hydrans and lost money for the Lyrans. 1013 get killed by Exped and 1st Fleets, 0413 killed by Home and 2nd Fleets. If you cover these to heavy I kill every other BATS on the border and maybe bypass 0413 and kill 0411.

By Kevin Howard (Jarawara) on Sunday, April 28, 2024 - 11:06 pm: Edit

However, the Lyrans could try it if they first sent a large portion of their northern fleets down south on turn 3. Maybe a majority of the fleet?

So 0413 becomes a starbase, but the northern territories get flamed by the Kzintis...

By Mike Erickson (Mike_Erickson) on Monday, April 29, 2024 - 02:24 pm: Edit

>> Not sure what you gain by releasing the fleets on CT3 since you don't know the Hydran Setup yet

One thing the Coalition can do is send some elements of the CT3 released fleets to KTO to accelerate a "Kzinti First" strategy. This would get those elements into position 1 turn earlier than waiting until CT4.

Now, I don't know if this is the best and/or most effective overall strategy, but (601.2) appears to allow it?

--Mike

By Ahmad Abdel-Hameed (Madarab) on Tuesday, April 30, 2024 - 08:32 am: Edit

I'd like to make what I believe is a salient point. As has already been stated several times, the wording according to the rules for the released fleets is that they're released on Turn 3, not upon Hydran attack. In contrast, the Romulan North Fleet is only released on Turn 13 with the clear caveat that it's released on Turn 12 during the Alliance phase if the Gorns invade Romulan space. Notice the distinction between the two statements. These descriptions have survived through revisions and careful combing of the rules. I believe that it leads to the obvious conclusion that the Klingon and Lyran fleets are released on Turn 3, prior to any Hydran activity.

By Kevin Howard (Jarawara) on Tuesday, April 30, 2024 - 09:43 am: Edit

Yes, I agree. Very clear.

Why? I do not know. Perhaps so that the Lyrans can legally upgrade their defenses? Or perhaps so that the Lyrans can commit seppuka by sending their fleet north on turn 3 and what the Enemy Blood's clan burn. I dunno.

Perhaps it's all just show to demonstrate that the Hydrans knew an attack was forthcoming and so they pulled the trigger first. I mean, seriously, all of the enemy's border fleets have been activated and are organizing and moving together, the attack is neigh, let's at least get a bite in before they overwhelm us.

By Paul Howard (Raven) on Tuesday, April 30, 2024 - 01:25 pm: Edit

You are missing one of the sentances in that rule and the way it is worded (yes it coud be cleaer) though seems to infer they are released on the Alliance turn as : -

"If Hydrans do not attack, released Coalition
forces available against the Kzintis."

So on the Coalition part of turn 3, the Hydrans have not yet had an opporuntity to attack and therefore they are NOT released until the Hydrans have had the opportunity to attack, which can only occur on the Alliance turn 3.


The Romulan example is not the same, as the Coalition can use the fleets on turn 3 (Reserve Fleets) which can reach the Kzinti front, which would be permitted by the rule/sentance if the Hydrans don't attack.

So Coalition Turn 3 - NOT released as per the sentenace stated in the rule.

Alliance turn 3 - is released as the Hydrans have the opportunity to attack.

I would agree though that it would help if the rules made it clearer if Fleets was released on the Coalition part of the X turn or the Alliance part of the X turn, but turn 3 and turn 12 in effect are the only turns this is relevant.

By John M. Williams (Jay) on Tuesday, April 30, 2024 - 01:43 pm: Edit

Clarifying this language as to when these fleets are released sounds like a good Warbook item.

By Warren Mathews (Turtle) on Saturday, May 25, 2024 - 09:39 am: Edit

---

Quote:

By Ahmad Abdel-Hameed (Madarab) on Saturday, May 25, 2024 - 08:31 am: Edit

That doesn't quite answer my question. To give a specific example, as the Klingons, can I substitute 2*D5V and an FV per turn 170+ instead of the 2 D5s and F5?

---

By Karl Mangold (Solomon) on Saturday, May 25, 2024 - 10:10 am: Edit

The Klingon OOB states-
(703.221) Allowable Substitutions:
D5V for D5 once per turn Y170+
F5V for F5 under CVE limit.

(703.23) RESTRICTIONS AND ALLOWANCES
Carriers:
Maximum of two carriers and one escort carrier per turn by any means, including no more than one C8V or C8S and one C7V/C7S per year.

So to be more specific you can produce 2D5V and F5V in one turn, but only one of those D5V by substitution. The other would have to be a conversion.

By Ahmad Abdel-Hameed (Madarab) on Saturday, May 25, 2024 - 02:18 pm: Edit

I'm using just the F&E base game. It doesn't have a (702.221) section in those rules. The OOBs found on the forums here are slightly different than what is found in the base game. For example, the Lyrans get an additional CW in their build schedule that isn't found in the base game. When I asked about that, I was told to use the rules as printed in the Federation & Empire Rulebook, 2010 Edition. Is it the same case here for the carrier substitutions. In the F&E2010 rulebook, (431.71) seems to be the controlling rule and it makes no mention of any limits (outside of the limits found in the OOB in the rulebook) for carrier substitutions. It doesn't actually make a difference in the game that I'm currently playing, but I'd like a ruling on as pertaining to just playing with the F&E base game.