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Archive through July 01, 2024
I originally had planned to take out 0212 as well but ultimately decided to save ships to have stronger reserves at the end of the turn for the expected backlash. Alternatively I could have pulled ships from the fleet attacking 0411 but that potentially would have jeopardized the mission. 0212 still keeps Lyrans supplied enough for Hydran space, but without the SB as well the Lyran supply points are on the edge of the map. Perhaps I will be wishing I had committed those ships in a few turns, but for now I'll have to live with it.
As the Kzinti, there are times when I deliberately trade my CA for crips, just to slow down the Coalition. Obviously one wants a favorable exchange rate on that one. If the Coalition is doing considerably more damage every round than you are, it's not good.
It's better done on the Kzinti turn, because then the Coalition won't get a retro phase, meaning that the crips will take one turn longer to repair. But it can also be worth it on the Coalition turn if the consequence is failure to devastate your capital planets.
Trading carriers for crips does make sense on occasion. But what happened here seems like a little much.
Ah, well I don't want to give the impression that the Kzinti carriers were given up intentionally.
So far AT4 is going about as expected for the Hydrans; so far the 2nd SB and Exp SB are being attacked (by covering forces), and I expect the West fleet will be making its way into 0617 shortly. 1st SB has been completely ignored so far an I'm expecting it to stay that way.
The West fleet isn't too terribly fearsome a fleet, but it has 4 maulers which will make the Hydrans hurt one way or another.
CT4 moves are finished. Mostly pinning battles of on-map fleets to get as many ships as possible in (both) capitals. The Lyrans aren't contributing much but I guess I'm not going to complain about the Klingons doing double capital assaults more or less on their own...gotta soften them up for the Feds after all.
As of press time I still have to decide where the Kzinti reserves will go. Certainly one will need to go to the capital but they have enough ships to spare saving one of the outer planets as well.
There's a pile of ships in 1401, and the loose ships holding Kzinti space are all under attack. In Hydran space, the Lyrans pinned both reserves out of the capital (but they don't have much in the way of a retrograde path).
There are nearly 80 Coalition ships in 0617 but only 26 Hydrans (plus a bunch of auxes, 24PDUs, 3PGBs, and a SB). Total defpot is really close (counting fighters and PDUs, not counting auxes), so it could be very close.
SB 0716 and all the BATS on the Klingon border are going to be destroyed; the Lyrans focussed all of their ships on pinning reserves and getting 3DN 2BC 4CC to 0617. Heavy firepower; all the depth is from Klingons.
Kzintai is not in nearly as much danger. But with only 5 cruisers (BC/CC) left, it's likely that some of the Kzinti planets will be devastated this turn.
Quickk question - why didn't the Hydrans use the Old Colony Fleet as a Reserve?
Only way to avoid it being used is not attack 617 - which is perhaps ideal for the Hydrans (OK, or block off all the entry hexes, which isn't easy on C4!!)
Even if Defensive Compt is similar - 617 is safe - as the initial lines over the Capital will be brutal for the Coalition - but with so few ships.... those side systems might fall on the cheap!
Where were the Hydran reserves?
Hydran reserves were in 0318 and 0519 - none of the ships sent to pin them are going to be able to retrograde. So actually, "pinning" out the old colonies would take about the same number of ships (as you can't leave more than half of the fleet behind, so I'd just need half of the fleet size in 0517 and 0518). If both fleets were in the Old Colonies, though, I would only be able to pin out one of them without lots of ships.
I guess my (strict) reading of the rules is that Old Colonies fleet isn't activated until a SB is destroyed or a home planet devastated. Since reserve movement occurs before either of those things happen on CT4, I assume they can't be used for that purpose.
I originally had wanted to put the reserves off-map but then they could only reach the 2nd Starbase and Hydrax. As it is it probably didn't matter, the pinning fleets still had to fight a battle round and take cripples for fighters, and those were ships not available to participate in the capital assault. Still it would have been nice to have the reserve ships in Hydrax to bolster defenses there. I've been going over and over whether that reserve allocation was correct, maybe I'll have come to a conclusion by the end of combat this turn.
Note that release of the Old Colonies Squadron only requires that the capital be _attacked_. It doesn't require that any planet in the capital be devastated. As soon as a coalition ship enters the capital hex, the OCS is released.
from 709.0
"This fleet cannot move unless the capital hex is attacked or a starbase is destroyed."
Karl
Jason has answered it correctly - it often is the best use of one of the Hydran Reserve Counters on A3/C4 - but if the Coalition doesn't attack 617, unless you have created a fleet of released ships and the Old Colony ships in the Reserve Fleet - the Reserve Fleet 'Counter' is not released.
But it is explicitif 617 is Attacked (and as Jason said, placing Coalition ships in 617 is an attack - and so the activation rule does occurs) or a SB destroyed - not Planet Devastated.
It is one of the more lenient rules for the Hydrans - in that Combat does not have to actually have occured for the rule to then be activated.
We're now 9 combat rounds in in the Kzinti capital (3x3 lines) and I've committed three more lines, and I still am directing ships (smaller ones now - the Kzinti seem to have decided that they'd like to keep the rest of their cruisers). This may be an error, but Karl's nearly out of fighters that he can use on his ships, so it feels like a bad idea to stop now. In for a penny, in for a pound, right?
"Stay on Target"
Are the Kzinti still defending defenceless planets?
Assuming the Coalition can avoid their FRD park being raided - the Kzinti are going to be so weak - they will not be able to help the Federation when the time arrives??
How many fighters have each side lost - and have the Kzinti being able to take up to 9 damage on each planet which had no defences (so the planet isn't devastated.....)?
R4 (lines 10-12) had the Coalition devastating 3 planets: 2 minors and a major. The Coalition then redevastated Vronkett, then killed 3PDU for a D6M and some cripples. It may or may not be over: I've offered an approach battle.
It finished after the Kzinti declined the approach, which I took to signal the end of the siege. What hurt most was that the Kzinti missed the pursuit roll, with 33 coalition cripples retreating out of the hex.
Ultimately as long as there were fighters to take damage on, I would continue to defend any undevastated planets. In doing so there would be more rounds with typically escorts getting directed on in exchange for coalition cripples, draining resources to make an attempt on a real target, or at least waste points directing on the planet to devastate it. Last turn it resulted in only one planet being devastated, now there are two more. I suppose Sam's steadily wearing down the defenses of Kzintai, but it feels like the Kzinti can hold on for awhile.
The Hydrans, on the other hand, well that theatre is a mess. The reckless Hydran offense in killing the Enemy's Blood SB and border BATS left the capital with lighter defenses than it should have, particularly as the reserves were pinned out of helping the capital assault by a similarly reckless advance of Lyran fleets that has left all but 6 ships in the Lyran navy out of supply.
Hydrax is being saved only by the lack of depth in the attacking Klingon fleet. That will be mostly wrecked this turn, and certainly it looks like some home planets will be devastated by the end (battle is still ongoing.) But the Hydrans have the Southern Reserve fleet to worry about next turn, which will bring the same or more I'm sure. I guess it was fun killing coalition bases, but it's probably time to bring the troops home...
We're 13 rounds in over Hydrax. The Hydrans are out of fighters, and the Coalition have just 18 uncrippled ships. Hydrax has 2PDUs, a PGB, and the SB, but the Coalition is beating the Hydrans in EW and compot. The big question is how many ships I'm willing to sacrifice to take the SB down - because I can almost certainly manage it, but I'd lose a lot.
Anthraxan still has 4PDU PGB, and that's not going to change in all likelihood. But crippling the SB here would be a major win for the Coalition - even with this large fleet crippled.
Round 14 now. Coalition went all in on Hydrax and it looks like the strategy is working. When PDUs are decimated, the Hydrans suffer a huge EW handicap which really isn't helping things.
Coalition has 70+ cripples in the hex, and this round some of them are on the line. Hydran ships still have fighters, but I'm not keen to sacrifice them due to the lowered COMPOT. The coalition line over Hydrax has mainly stayed afloat with 3 Lyran DNs, allowing damage to be taken on the cannon fodder. I've not been directing on ships because it's so close.
Anyway, there is a lot of hand-wringing (tentacle-wringing?) going on in the Hydran capital. One way or another it should be over soon.
Alas, the lack of hulls in 617 perhaps is telling.
The oversight on not knowing the Old Colonies release conditions is going to be turn out to be very painful.
If the Coalition can leave the hex with the SB crippled - the Hydrans are in big trouble.
What have the lines been - as with a EWN, PDU/PGB early on and the SB - the Hydrans should be OK with EW?
(2 x D6S's and 3 x D6D's is 14 EW - and it doesn't leave much room for Cannon Fodder to take damage)
What Scout have the Hydrans been using (Tug+SP, 4 PDU, EWN is 9 EW so 13 EW is fairly easy and upto 15 can be got)?
What have the Coalition lost so far also - and any good/bad rolls for either side?
Casualties in 0617 so far:
H Dead 6SIDS 14PDU RN HR 2LN
H Crip LN KN CR 3CU 2HN HNG (10.5EP)
L Dead
L Crip 2BC 4CC CW 2CL CLS FF (20EP)
K Dead 2D6M 2F5L
K Crip 2D6M 4D7C 4D7 D6 9D5 4F5L 9F5 3F5G 2F5S 8E4 3E4A E4G E4T E4S E3A (72EP)
One of the F5Ls killed made depot; all of the dead Hydran ships were mauled.
Rolls have felt uneven, with the Alliance averaging 3.9 and the Coalition averaging 3.6. But there were a few rounds where low Alliance compot meant that the rolls meant essentially nothing, so a better metric overall is difference from expected damage. In other words, how much more (or less) damage did each side do than if they'd rolled 3.5 every round. At this point, the Alliance did ~16 damage more than average and the Coalition did ~5 damage more than average.
I'm actually quite surprised by that analysis - and also, that's a nearly negligible difference. Total damage so far is C:494, O:487. Like I said earlier, this one's coming down to the wire.
I'm likely to self-kill a whole bunch of ships. If you consider that with full fleets one SIDS costs about one cruiser, it's actually a fantastic deal to kill one frigate per SIDS scored in the capital.
The latest lines are:
Coalition: TGA-B/D(flg,frm) 2DN(PT) DNL 2D6D D6J 7f3 D6S(frs) 90/9
Hydrans: PGB, SB(1EW, 36AF)(no ftrs), PAL(3ftrs)(frm, flg), LAS(frs), 2LM(1ftr each), DG(no ftrs), RN(4ftrs), THR, LNG(no ftrs), hn, 3cu 110/5
I have a D6V that's uncrippled (but with 2e4a+e3a as escorts, so it's not great to put on the line), plus a F5J. Hydran scouts have been using a LAS as their scout.
The Hydrans won't lose their capital next turn - they've got more than enough ships to defend against the uncrippled Klingons in range. But with the Old Colonies cut off by an FF in 0118, they'll have money problems. It's not looking pretty for them.
Of course, it's not all roses for the Coalition either - there's an absurd number of crippled ships, the FRDs are basically all in 1307 which probably can't be completely defended, and the Lyrans only have BATS 0311 from which they can reach Hydran space. And, of course, I forgot to send the cripples left in 1307 elsewhere so my repair facilities will get underutilized. But hey! It's probably still cheaper than a normal C5 or C6 assault on Hydrax would be, so avoiding that is a win.
I have to admire Sam's determination, I've never seen anything like this. Once the Hydrans run low on fighters they have to start crippling ships, and they don't exactly have a surplus of those lying around. We're at round 18 over Hydrax and the Klingons have self-killed 4 frigates the last two turns to offset damage...there are only 4 uncrippled coalition ships left in the hex. However, the Hydrans don't have much either; a full-strength PAL and LM but otherwise most of the fleet is crippled now, and I'm having to do things like put up a PTR and FHL(!) to possibly take damage. I don't think Sam has the luxury of directing ships at this point but I don't want to risk putting more cripples on the line with a penal cruiser on the other side.
The SB is still standing, and there is still a PGB left on Hydrax. The bitter irony is that the Hydrans' money problems are mostly offset (at least this turn) by all the mauled cruiser hulls of the other battle hexes this turn. It's not like the Hydrans are going to retreat out of the capital, so it's going to be Sam's job to call it on this bloodbath.
Do you have any of the earlier rounds as damage done of C:494, O:487 does not seem correct (unless the Hydrans basically was defending minor planets and not defending major ones...)
Round 1 over the capital planet should see over 80 damage done (even with a low roll) - and 3 or 4 rounds of over 60 damage done while the PDU's are killed.... so I can't see why so little damage has been done.
With a modest roll - Hydrans should do over 100 - and with a good roll (40% say) - it could easily be 120+.
Did the Coalition Direct on Hydran Fighters over Minor Planets so the PDU fighters could always find a base?
Only thing the Hydrans need to ensure is the Coalition can't 1 shot crippple the SB - so with a Mauler and say 130 Coalition Compot - they would need 50%..... - so Hydrans can easily pick BIR 3 - and if the Coalition go low on BIR, the Mauler might not be able to maul - so probably would pick BIR 3 too.
In other words - equal damage seems to have been done defending a Capitlal hex - when 2 to 1 damage is normal (Damage starts at 3 to 1 or greater than and falls slowly to 1.2 to 1 say, once the PDU's are dead and the Coalition has higher EW).
So 1 to 1 just looks wrong....
... and only thing I can think of that would allow that is the Hydrans defended the Minors .... and then couldn't then put up a strong line for the Majors or Capital?
Sorry if this seems harsh - but what has happened?
I have all the records!
Karl put up a fight at every planet, only ceding the minors after a round or two (and I mauled Hydramax's PDUs). I outgunned him by 10-20 compot most rounds.
R1 at Hydrax was:
10PDU, PGB, SB(36AF:1EW), BT(frm, flg), LAS(frs), LM, RN, THR, LN, KN, CR, CU, LNG for 207/9 (EWN) BIR4
TGA-B/D(flg, frm) 2DN(PT) 2BC D6M 3D7C 2D5 CW 3F5L 8DBB(2D6D) D6S(frs) 142/4 BIR 2
We both rolled 6, but BIR rolled down 1. There were a few cruisers in other Hydran lines, but I presume this got the most ships fighting this round (for the most aggregate damage). That was just 72 damage for the Hydrans and 43 for me.
On the one hand, the Hydrans had a few cruisers killed because Karl defended the minors. On the other hand, he would be in much worse shape overall had I gotten to kill those PDUs basically for free. It might have been advantageous to self-kill the PDUs with the first damage taken (so that there were no empty fighter bays - that's been my strategy when I play the Alliance). But honestly, I'm not sure.
I have also realized that if - by some miracle - I take the hex, I arguably wouldn't destroy the shipyard. (511.35) says that "the only way to destroy the shipyard is to capture the entire hex which contains it". I have fewer than 6 uncrippled ships, so even if I did capture the hex I couldn't capture all of the planets and thus not "the entire hex". Which is a hilarious edge case that almost certainly won't come into play.
Sorry, so let me get this right.
Karl was defending his Capital Planet - with less than a full line of ships - never mind with what appears to be a pile of rubbish for the first round?
I don't think I have ever seen such a poor line for the first round of the capital defence.
The Hydran Line COULD be around 280 at this stage (as it doesn't have 20 PDU's) - but even accepting it lost some cruisers on Alliance Turn 3 - it should have been easily north of 260.
Did the SB also lose Fighters which didn't get replaced (as it should be 36+12)?
I make the compot only around 199 also with whats stated - so they might have been another ship or two in the line or some SB fighters.
But - No Command Points spent
No Battle Group created (3 x HR/TR and 3 x CR makes an ideal Battle group if you lack Cruisers).
Only 4 Heavy Cruisers used.
it's far more important for the Hydrans to maximise the big battles - even if they can't defend the minors then - as the crucial different is - a big roll over Hydrax means the Coalition has to self kill to deal with the damage (or cripple several key hulls) - and doing 6 damage over a minor or 20 damage over a minor is not going to make much difference (and also avoids Hydran ships being directed or if sufficent damage is done, the Hydrans have to self cripple ships).
But with a Line of 207 did 72 damage - and so if the D6M is directed on, thats 44 damage left to take - or the D6M is self criippled, the Battlegroup is crippled - and the D7C's are crippled.
If the line was 251 (which doesn't use a Command Point) - which was easily achievable - thats 88 damage - the BC's get crippled or something dies -which massively hurts the Coalition ability to sustain a high compot line.
(As a point - where is the Hydran Prime Team????)
As another silly point - that Coalition line seems to have 15 ships Combat Ships????
Flag (Free) - TGA
1 DN
2 DN
3 BC
4 BC
5 D6M
6 D7C
7 D7C
8 D7C
9 D5
10 D5
CP 1 CW
CP 2 F5L
Battle Group Ship F5L
Extra Ship F5L comes from???? .....
(and it's techncially 2 ships too many, as you can't make a legal Battle Group with the all the D7C's....)
Droping a D7C would make the force legal so compot is 132/4
The error on the Old Colonies Fleet was significant - but defending Minors when the Capital is under defended, sorry, in my humble opinion is just suicdal play.
On capturing the hex - yes it was ruled you have to be able to capture all the planets, to destroy the Shipyard - so in effect if the Hydrans retreat, the Hex is not captured and you don't have 6 uncrppled Coalitin Ships, some planets will remain under Hydran control.
I had to self kill a Romulan Condor over the Gorn Shipyard hex to ensure I had enough uncrippled hulls to capture it (i.e. I self killed the Condor so IIRC, 3 other smaller ships could be left uncrippled - and yes, the Condor was then captured!!)
But, in this game, the Hydrans will have nothing left to defend the Hex on turn 5 - and sorry again, they have given up their capital hex very cheaply.
Although not hugely relevant
1) Where are the Hydran AUX's (other than 1 LAS)
2) What Tugs do the Hydrans have?
Turn 3 should see
1 x Battle
1 x Carrier (possibly - if not, a second BT)
1 x Supply+FCP
1 x Scout
It could see one being built on Turn 3, so that would give them a Carrier.... and the UH (which I like building, but not everyone does).
What happened to all the Hydran PDU Fighters?
(Giving the Coalition -24 points over the capital is crucial, as in effect thats 1 round of high damage (or should be high damage) for just possibly 1 or 2 PDU's dying. (Hydrans could be be sneaky and go low on BIR and so if the Coalition does the same, getting 34 damage to kill 1 PDU is not certain!)
Last silly question did the Hydrans drag a FRD off map with a Tug.... as the FRD should be in that line too!
The phrase of the day "The Hydran who defends eveything, defends nothing" 
It wasn't the first battle line of the hex - I'd attacked Hypnokerm and Hoplishka for a few rounds first.
Ah, yes, I did make an error in that line (and we fixed it) - so my line was actually 133/4. Battle group was 2D5 CW 3F5L.
Karl had a cruiser with each of the starbases (2 plus the LGE in 0215) and one in each reserve. That didn't leave very many for capital defense. That was the real problem - the reserves didn't look pinnable (because I'd have to strand 20 Lyrans to do so) and a whole bunch of Lyrans were crippled anyway.
Sam
Well, that just confirms my point - with any 26 or ships - it looks like most of the static ships was defending the other two systems and not Hydrax.
Depending on what was attacking - the Mobile fleet could be used over one of the other two systems - but if the Coalition was going to have a higher compot (even with the 2 PDU's on the Hydran side) - with so few ships to sustain lines over the majar planets the Minors planets should have just been given up.
1 LGE perhaps should have been in the reserve (with the Supply Tug) to give the chance of the expedition sneaking a fast ship round - but the second should have been in 617 (compot and always in the mobile fleet).
Yes - it can be pinned in 519 - but with the Old Colonies Fleet able to help unpin it - perhaps it would have been made more difficly - putting a stack of Lyran ships Out of Supply to pin them where they was though was perhaps a surprise?
What will the Hydrans have uncrippled (or perhaps not repairable shall we say) over the other 3 SB's?