Archive through July 05, 2024
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Archive through July 05, 2024
The Hydrans have only one crippled ship outside of the capital (a CR) and 42 uncrippled, outside of the expedition fleet that is sitting in Lyran space. The allocation for Hydrax was almost all the static ships over the home planet; this unfortunately had two unforseen downsides. The first is that Sam only had to survive 3 rounds of clearing PDUs before it turned into just a regular starbase assault, and the light defenses from the mobile fleet trying to then cover two systems meant that they were outgunned in both. There really isn't much of a difference between outlying majors and minors (18 compot) but what was more noticable was the EW achilles heel of the Hydrans. Outlying planets essentially rely on PDUs for EW, and once those are gone the going gets even tougher. Also the Hydran EW game is weak early on; Hydrax was almost entirely manned with auxiliary scouts since the starting 1-point scouts are basically worthless. With that, the minor planet battles essentially only went 1 round before I had to abandon them.
My other error was in underestimating my opponent. I had for some reason thought that Sam was risk-averse, when evidently the opposite is true. At the conclusion of the battle, every coalition ship but one (D6S) was crippled, and the coalition lost somewhere in the neighborhood of 20 hulls. A heavy price, but one that did achieve the goal of killing the capital starbase.
With lack of repair facilities (closest SB/FRD is Klinshai) on top of the loss of hulls, the coalition will (at least temporarily) be at a pincount disadvantage. Also the Lyran fleets in Hydran space at present are either crippled or out of supply. So perhaps the Hydrans can make some hay next turn on the cats, at least. Certainly has dealt a blow to the Hydran economy though (and certainly alliance morale.)
Total casualties for C4 (except 0617):
Z Dead 3PDU PGB 2CLE FFK FKE SF FF EFF SAD
Z Crip BC CL DD FFK FFG FF EFF (9EP)
H Dead SB 5BATS 2DG THR HN
H Crip 2CR (3EP)
L Dead JGP CL DD
L Crip CC CA 6CW CL CLS 3DD 2FF (21EP)
K Dead D7 2D6M F5
K Crip D7 D6 16D5 6F5L 21F5 F5G 3F5S 8E4 E4A (71EP)
0617 is over! 22 battle lines, not counting destruction of 2PDU without fighters or devastating undefended planets.
Casualties in 0617:
H Dead SB 20PDU 3PGB RN HR 2LN HN 3CU FTL LAS FHL
H Crip PAL 2LM TG RN THR LN 2KN 2CR FCR (21.5EP)
L Dead
L Crip 2DN DNL 2BC 4CC CW 2CL CLS FF (28EP)
K Dead 2D6M 4D5 5F5L 9F5 5E4 E4A
K Crip 2D6M 4D7C TGA 4D7 2D6D D6 D6J 6D5 CVT 2F5S 3F5G F5J E4G E4T E4S 2E4A 3E4 E3A (56EP)
K Depot D5 2F5L 3F5 E4A
26 ships (mostly small) and 85EP of repairs isn't cheap... but it's a steal compared to what it could have been. For the whole turn, that's 156EP of repairs for the Coalition - I might have gone a bit overboard. Karl apparently forgot about RCR until the end of the battle, when he spent 24EP to fix half of those cripples (and drive me off).
My biggest regret so far this game is not having the Klingons build FRDs. I'm trying to keep Alliance fleets small - and that means I'm generating lots of Coalition cripples. Doubly so, since Karl hasn't done much directing at all. I'm totally okay with the repair bill cutting into ship building costs (after all, if the Coalition lose 10 EP and the Alliance lose 10 EP, it's the Coalition who have come out ahead). But the lack of repair facilities is making this hard. I think I'll start building some PRDs...
In fact, that's my theory of the game: the goal of the Alliance (early on) should be to spend fighters, PDUs, and bases to do disproportionate damage to the Coalition. The Kzinti can't hold. The Hydrans can't hold. But they can make it costly, and they can (mostly) preserve their fleets. When the Federation joins and the Klingons shift focus, the Kzinti and the Hydrans want to spend their fleets on distracting the Klingons so that the Federation can hold.
Conversely, I think the goal of the Coalition early on should be to reduce the size of the Alliance fleets so that it's easier to contain them later. I'm happy to trade cruisers and cripple fleets if it puts the Hydrans in an awkward spot. Then, when the time comes to attack the Federation, the maximum force can be applied because the Hydrans aren't a threat.
On that note, one of my theories is that it's worth trading a D6M for 4PDU in the Kzinti capital every turn, for as long as the Kzinti are willing to build PDUs. 4PDU costs 28, a D6M costs 10, and it costs about 0.25EP to take one point of damage, so breakeven is about when the Kzinti line deals 100 damage (assuming the Kzinti direct the D6M). This is obviously modified by things like pursuit, but I think spending that much on PDUs is a losing proposition.
And in regard to what Karl said: I went into this thinking I'd kill some cruisers, kill the PDUs over Hydrax, then leave. I got more opportunities than expected to drop damage with only a few PDUs, so I got rid of all the spare Hydran fighters against relatively inconsequential lines. This meant that I never had to fight the SB against a monster line with fighter replacements (which I would have avoided).
I've never been risk-averse, so I don't know where Karl got that from (see: daring FRD park raids in our previous game).
Without knowing all the details - but self killing all those Coalition ships might well turn out to be a false dawn for the Coalition.
No point in trying to keep the Kzinti navy small by directing.... and then making the Coalition Fleet smaller too! 
Looks like the Coalition got lucky on Depot too!
As the hex couldn't be captured - I think the Coalition should have left after the SB was crippled - thats a mission kill (no repairs, no conversions) on Alliance turn 4.
They come back in on C5 and direct kill the crippled SB.
With possible a good Hydran fleet left in theatre - and the Coalition needing to cover the FRD park...... will the Coalition have enough ships to assault 617 next turn?
Rapid Combat Repair..... to be honest, haven't used it before so easy to forget - but silly question - how was 24 Ep'a spent?
Was there 2 FRD's in 617 (and so 2 Compt per round may have been missed) - as RCR is limited to 4 from the SB and 12 from a FRD.....
Could the relevant number of ships been repaired soone - thereby maintaining the Hydran compot for a round or two.
TR's are ideal to cripple and RCR (as fighters reamin dead).
How many Ep's will be in the 617 main grid?
Can the Hydrans build the Pal (Activation), UH (to use up as many free fighters as possible) and a TG (use a key pod - or drag a FRD to the Old Colonies) - and Frigates for the balance of any money?
Ran out of time for comments - off to work!
So on 617 - are any planets undevastated or have defences left?
All the Hydrans can do do is bascially force the Coalition to burn through all the Hydran Fighters agaim to capture the hex.
And if it can't be done on turn 5, what can the Alliance do on turn 5 to reduce the chances the Coalition can do it on turn 6 (as that could delay any attack on the Federation)?
As an example - could the Hydrans pin the Coalition out of 617 on turn 5 and/or turn 6??
Anthraxan has 4PDU PGB, and there's a MB set up near Hydrax. Earlier / aggressive use of RCR could have made a huge difference.
I figured that killing the SB was worth it in case the Coalition could get pinned out on C5 - the Hydrans sacrificing a lot to get it operational again might have made it painful to take on C6.
I'm not sure if the Hydrans can pin me out - and part of that might depend on what I repair. I think I have enough to make a credible attempt, but that depends on whether the Hydrans give me the 2nd Fleet SB for free - and on whether they try to take out 0212.
I think that Hydrax is mine if I want it on C6 and don't get it C5. Between new builds and repairs, I can divert enough ships to take it. But yes, that might make for a weak C7 attack on the Feds.
Well, with so many Coalitiomn ships crippled - I can't see how they can pin the Alliance out of the FRD park (assuming it's on the Front line!)?
So 617 is worth 12 plus the provinces and other planets in that grid.
Getting the 3 needed hulls (with that level of RCR, noting some will be covered by salvage) is probably possible - but poor timing on the RCR will not help - was the RCR done after the SB was crippled or before?
Do the Hydrans still have what I assume is two FRD's in 617 - and did they contribute the 1 compot each during every battle round over Hydrax?
(Not alot, but it will all help!).
Not sure if two near max Strength Reserves in the Old Colonies or placeing them in 617 will be better for flexibility......
With so many Hydran huills thrown away on A3 - I don't think they can defend all 3 SB's with ships - and will have to use the reserves to do that.
One thing - is the MB in 617 and what deployed it?
That to me is a total waste - will die too easy and it took a valuable hull away from the defence of the Capital!! (and if so., the Tug should have been in the battle lines) - so is the MB in a hex near 617?
.
RCR probably would have made a difference had I thought of it maybe 2 rounds earlier. As it was, I'm not sure if the sudden repair of an entire line is what prompted the coalition to finally pull out.
Both of us have decisions to make. C4 was an absolute bloodbath for both sides, (mainly Hydran and Klingon) and the current board with a quick glance has more crippled ships than uncrippled. Hydrans are hobbled by their economy (Old Colonies is cut off - it won't be for long but that's enough to affect this turn's production.) A bitter irony being that all of the hulls lost last turn are what is allowing a full build schedule this turn. The coalition is hampered by repair facilities; the Hydran front has 3 FRDs but they are all Klingon so it will affect their economy as well. Otherwise Klinshai has considerable repair capacity but would take ships out of circulation for a couple of turns. Sam could recycle those into ships available for the Federation front, but that leaves the Hydrans in question.
The Kzinti theatre is business as usual, the interesting things are all happening to the south.
I had up until this point not understood what advantage the TR had; that is a good point about RCR.
Anyway the events of last turn are making econ more complicated than usual. The Hydrans are still without a new province from survey, although next turn the extra SR from AT3 will be able to start surveying as well. I'll post econ here when I have it done, for anyone interested.
TR - it's a rounding up Odd Numbered Hull - so 3 Repair points for 7 damage.... and as it has no fighters, doesn't lose compot (i.e. although you take the 2 Fighters and cripple a HR, your down 1 Compot if its repaired!)
(Not like those lovely CR's!)
Can't remember the rules on new survey ships - is it 1 Turn to move off Map (if not built off) - and then 1 turn to move to the survey area?
The MB is at Hydrax, it was deployed by a team of FFTs. (The other one was evacuated to the Old Colonies last turn.) The MB will be the last thing that has to be destroyed to take the hex, although Sam may choose to deal with the other Major planet first. Either way it is a delay tactic to force the coalition to fight additional rounds; at this point any cripples exceeding repair capacity is contributing to further weakening of SEQs on the Klingon border. I honestly don't know of a better deployment for the MB, I've tried once in the past to put one over one of the minors to harden defenses but that gets it killed easily too. So over Hydrax it went.
The Klingons have 3 FRDs and most of the uncrippled ships available are protecting the park.
The Hydrans have both FRDs in Hydrax; one was involved in battle but I thought it not wise to make additional valuable targets when Sam is so keen on directing Hydran hulls. They did turn out to be useful with the RCR. I for sure won't be able to get both of them out this turn, but I probably want one for RCR again with the next capital assault.
The Hydrans also have to decide what to do with the Lyrans; there are three fleets out of supply with 16 cripples combined (including 3DNs). Some ships could be adopted by the Klingons but two of the fleets are too far away to even to get supply that way. It's a lot to consider.
Looks like you might have played afew rules wrong.
1) The FRD's are at a Planet (normally the Capital - 302.2122) - and can be directed as normal if the Base they are with is the Focus of the Attack - but they add their compot for free.
So the FRD's die - but thats the directed damage attack used up.
2) Excluded Target Rule (302.2123) could be used to protect the MB... but when the SB was killed, I think that get drppped (point A of the rule) - and those 3 FFT's would then need to be included in the Battle Line.
One big risk of using FFT's (or LTT's) - they are very ineffecient if they have to be included in the battle force and if one is killed - it stops the base being set up IIRC.
Probably easieys to call it a wash and ignore both issues!!!
There were no rounds after the SB was killed. And, unless I'm misremembering it, FRDs can shelter at the hidden base. I definitely would have fought another round without the CDR.
On where the MB's can be placed - yes, dragging one to the Old Colonies for future use isn't bad - but trying to put one in 518 can be useful - as it ensures the Hydrans can retreat to the Old Colonies, if the Coalition tries to get the Hydrans to retreat to 718.
Issue is - those Tugs have lots of missions needed and perhaps using the FFT's to drag the MB off map might be better?
Especially as you can then put the FFT's in a Reserve Fleet and with a say a LC, the LC and FFT's can always reserve onto the map - or can reserve with the rest of the Old Colonies Fleet if 617 is attacked. (Tactic Note to follow).
The FRDs were assigned to the MB although I think its legal to fight a round with the FRD as the "base" target, since only one base can be hidden. I'm not totally sure on that rule though.
The FFTs potentially could have been included in the battle without stopping the MB set-up, but it would have delayed, as each FFT contributes 1/3 turn to the setup. So up to two could have been included, if I was really desperate (in this situation, delaying the MB setup would essentially mean that it would be destroyed next turn as the SB was already taken out and the MB could be targeted next.
Those are good ideas about using the OM for reserves even before OC fleet is released. I've also never heard of/thought about setting up a MB in 0518 that is a very good idea. The fall of Hydrax otherwise requires the Hydran fleet to retreat to Hydraxaport unless the coalition made a mistake and conquered it first.
Also I'm quite proud our game seems to have inspired a tac note!
Hi Karl
Well, the FRD's can move bewtween the main base and the exlculuded base at the start of each rounbd - but when the SB died - the excluded base rule no longer applies.
So yes, you could protect the FRD's if you wanted to on.
On the Tatic note - sorry, have used it before but your game did remind me to write it up.
But including the 2 FFT's was something I added - as I the last few games have only been basic rules and the 2 FFT's can replace the TG which drags something to the Old Colonies (usually it's a CC, TG and HN added to the Reserve Fleet).
The CC is important as unless 3 high Command Rated Ships blockaid the Old Colonies - the CC (and probably TG) can always get past on CR rating and the poor HN meets the pin requirement.
Here's Alliance Econ for turn 4:
AT4 Y170 Spring
Kzinti Survey = 33+1+5+1+2 (3 survey ships + PT) = 42 (1 new province)
0.875 Existing treasury
16 On Map (2 minors, 8 provinces (6 disrupted))
21 Off Map (1 Major, 2 Minors, 3+2 Provinces)
22 Capital (4 Majors (2dev), 4 Minors(2dev)) Kuballus/Keevarsh/Zaforma/Vronkett recovery ¼
Income: 59EP
59.875 New Treasury
DBB AT1: 1001 -4 (0.4EP)
DBB CT1: 1401 - 8 (0.8EP
Total DBB: -1.2EP
Salvage AT3: FH (0.625EP)
Salvage CT4: CLE, CLE, SAD, FKE, FFK, EFF, SF, FF(6EP)
Total salvage: +6.625
Prior turn EPs: -1.2 + 6.625 = +5.425
EPs received from allies: 0
Other income: 0
Total: 65.3 EP
FFF Y170 = 12
Production:
Standard production (61)
16 DN
6 TGT sub BC
18 3MEC sub 3CM
5 LTT sub CM
3.5 FKE sub FF
12.5 3FF
0 Free PT
Conversions (0)
0 ENG start CM MSY (OM Major - Klarkska)
Repairs (3.5)
OM - FFK, FKE, CLE
0 no E/S Raid
Total:
65.3 - 65 = 0.3 EP remaining
Command Points: 2+1=3
FFF: Y169 12 - 0 + (0 Y169) = 12 remain Y170
Tug Assignments:
OM - ENG start CM shipyard (¼)
1401 - TGT (new) - V/V
1401 - TGC-B/B
1401 - TGT-S/S
1401 - TGT-S/V
1401 - LTT-V
1401 - 3FFT - No assigned mission
1202 - TGC-B/V
1202 - TGC-S/V
PT assignments:
1 - OM - Survey
2 - 1401 - Shipyard protection
3 - 1401 - FFF protection
4 - OM - Survey
5 - New - Survey
Federation Production
Home: 1 peacetime PT
3rd fleet (2211)t: 3NCL, 3FF
6th fleet (3611)t: CVB, DE, FFE, FFS
AT4 Y170 Spring
Hydran Econ - Main Grid
0 Existing treasury
25 On Map (1 major, 2 minors, 10 provinces(6 disrupted)
12 Capital (3 Majors (2 dev), 3 Minors (all dev))
0 Off-map (Partial grid)
37 New Treasury
Prior turn accounting
Salvage: AT3 - TG+FSP, 2LB, 4RN, HR (16.25EP)
CT4 - 2DG, RN, THR, HR, 2LN, 3CU, 2HN, FHL, FTL, LAS, 2F5 (16.175EP)
Total Salvage: 34.425EP
Field Repair: 24EP (RCR CT4)
EPs received from allies: 
Other income: 0
AT3+CT4: 16.25+16.175-24 = 8.425EP
Total treasury: 45.425
Y170F FFF: 12
Production:
Standard production (40.5)
5 PAL (activate)
6 TG sub RN (1.5 FFF)
10 2HR (3FFF)
5 TR
7.5 3CU
3.5 SA sub HN
3.5 AH sub HN
0 Free PT
Conversions (0)
Repairs (0)
Other expenditures: (0)
Total: 40.5
45.425 - 40.5 = 4.925 EP remaining
Command Points: 1+1=2
Free fighter factors: Y170 12+3.25(Y169) - 5.25 = 10 remain
Hydran Econ - Old Colonies partial grid
Survey: 7(turn 3)+1+5+3=16
Income
17 Off Map (2 Majors, 1 Minor, 2 Provinces)
Total 17EP
Production:
2.5 HN
0 ENG build CW MSY @ Altroth(OM), step 1/4
Repairs (1.5)
1.5 LN
Conversions (3)
3 HN to 3SA
3 Set up extra survey line
Total expenditures: 10 EP
Stockpile 7 EP in SB (OM)
Total: 17 - 17 = 0
Tug assignments:
0617 New Tug - SP
0718 TG - No assignment (crippled)
0616 TG - BP
0312 TG - FCP
OM - (ENG) CW MSY
PT Assignments
1 - OM - Survey
2 - 0617 (New) - Survey
Couple of points if I may...
1) Is there anyway the Kzinti can built the TGC instead of the TGT?
As TGC with Carrier Pods (and 2 escorts) is a pretty good carrier group - and saving 2 Ep's to build the TGT loses those 4 Compot.... so not a good trade IMHO.
If it's only ever going to move Ep's or be used as a Scout Tug...... it probably is a good 2 Ep's saved, but flexibility is then lost.
On the Hydrans
I assume the SA is the 'SAR' (4-5/2/3 Frigate Leader)?
Not sure if thats a good or bad 1 Ep cost - yes it makes it an odd value so slightly more effecient on crippling - but it makes it an expensive ship to die.
(And is pretty poor as an Escort!).
Why not convert the 3 LN's into 3 x DE's in the Old colonies - cost is 6 Ep's - but the DE is an excellent escort and it helps protect the Fighters (as LN's are fairly good targtes for directing on).
2 x DE's (or any other Fighter ship) can feed it's fighters forward - so they can be used and will take 50% more damage to then die.....
The easy stateent is - when would you want to use 3 x SA's - not very often (poor compot, unless you have a Battlegroup being used) - but the DE's will be used alot!!
Looks like you only built 2 HN slots also, rather than the 3rd (and you had Eps left) - any reason?
AO rules are at home - doesn't the Activating Paladin have to pay for it's fighters (I can't remember!!)?
I am guessing you also feel 617 will be safe on turn 5...... which means you can build the much better CV instead of the UH to use up those fighters!!!
Using the FSP and losing it and the Tug and not building a TG on turn 3, will now really hurt you - those VP's are not being used!!
It looks like Karl built the 3rd HN off-map. FF production at SBs still counts against the build schedule.
Doh - I sort of noticed it and missed it at the same time !!!
Kzintis built the TGT mainly to use up the remaining carrier pods; the other TGTs I have been using as scout/carrier combos since the free scout does not contribute COMPOT (outside of the fighters.) This was a budget move, as building both a DN and CV the same turn would basically tie up all the money in the build schedule, and there are 10 or so cripples off-map that need repairing.
Just trying to use as many of the resources I already have as possible.
Hydrans did indeed convert the 3 HNs; I think the conversion from HN to SA is worth it, as the SA can absorb more damage and is easier to repair than the CR, making it better defensively IMO. Also its a pretty big improvement over the HN, and can hold their own in the SSC battles with picket frigates. I don't know if the 3EPs is totally worth it, but it seemed to me like the OC fleet with 3SAs instead of 3HNs is an upgrade. Certainly it is a better option than paying the 2EPs to upgrade to the marginally better CR. I hadn't even noticed that CRs crippled defense factor was only 2 until doing RCR last turn. I could've used those extra EPs honestly. It's almost not worth it to repair them for the money.
I also didn't know what to do with the spare fighter factors; there is a good chance 0617 will last at least another turn (unlikely more than that unless Sam shifts focus back to the Kzinti) so I'd rather spend them on the CV than an UH (which would've also spent a CW slot to build this turn.) The fighter factors can roll over for up to a year, so worst case scenario I convert a crippled LN to UH off-map if the shipyard goes away.
Two items, the Kzinti noted that they spent 12.5 for 3 FF when it should be 5 FF and what's with 3 PTs on survey duty, only one has any effect if it survives the dice roll …
I need to look back now to see if I actually put 5FFs on the board. That was a typo in the econ.
The PTs are each assigned to a survey cruiser, of which the Kzinti have 3. I have not come across a rule indicating that you are limited to only one on survey duty; in fact, (522.44) refers to making die rolls for each survey cruiser that has a PT. Anyway since the PTs are free I am using them to essentially get an extra rolls' worth of survey points per turn.
Last sentence of 522.44:
"No more than one prime team can be used by any given empire for this type of mission each turn."
Wow how did I miss that...