IMO, TGT is perfectly good value for money. When playing the Kzinti, I do build some TGC, but I probably build more TGT.

By Sam Benner (Nucaranlaeg) on Friday, July 05, 2024 - 04:17 pm: Edit

Movement is done on A4.

The Hydrans are attacking all of the stacks of out of supply Lyrans, and they shuffled a bunch of cripples offmap. 7 frigates and a destroyer are attacking 1618 (a late attempt at the expedition?), but there's an E4 and a pair of cripples there, so I don't think the base is in any real danger.

A Klingon reserve is going to help the huge stack of Lyran cripples mostly get away, and a pair of Lyran reserves are opening supply to the Lyrans in 0217, as the Hydrans have been aggressive in Lyran space. There are 4 ships in the Lyran capital for some reason (LGE TG-S HN SC), and there's SSC in 0413 that could be very important. It's FF vs HN, and if the HN dies the LGE will be trapped out of supply in Lyran space.

One of the reserves opening supply consists of STT 3DW DD 3FF SC in 0215, with the only defender of the SB being a SC. I don't know if the SB will be destroyed, but I can score some SIDS for sure.

In Kzinti space, it was rather chaotic. I'd left the FRD park open as a trap, planning to reinforce ships in 1302 and 1402 so that pursuit in 1307 would mean not getting back to 1401. Instead, Karl went after pickets in force, also attacking 0705 and 1107. 0705 will be destroyed; 1107 likely not.

The Kzinti still control 1105; some number of ships will remain there or in 1202 after this turn (how many depends on retreats). There aren't any big battles here.

By Paul Howard (Raven) on Friday, July 05, 2024 - 05:16 pm: Edit

Not sure what 4 ships can do against the Lyran capital.

Probably a waste of 4 good ships - 2 of which should be in the Hydran Captial.

Karl - what was the reason for this attack - as it can't do much damage even with no ships there.

215 - Ahh, the Sucker punch of attacking stuff which blocks to supply to other units being attacked.

About the only thing the Hydrans cao do is Rapid Combat Repair to take some damage on the SC.... which probably means the SB will survive (althhogh might well be crippled).


Another simple missed trick is cripples are ideal to help in SSC combbat - 1 crippled ship could have been added to 413 for example - if a reserve turns up - you give ip the cripple, but a HN v FF is -1 v 0...whereas a HN+hn v FF is +1 v -2 - a huge difference.

Simple chages - huge differences!

By Sam Benner (Nucaranlaeg) on Friday, July 05, 2024 - 05:33 pm: Edit

Had Karl put a cripple or two in 0413, I might have reacted from 0212 (there are plenty of ships there). A second frigate, maybe, but this wasn't the place that a cripple could be used for SSC.

By Karl Mangold (Solomon) on Saturday, July 06, 2024 - 07:51 am: Edit

"The closer you are to danger, the farther you are from harm."
My primary reason for attacking the Lyran capital is that I had the opportunity to create a rather unique situation that would allow me to test a few ideas. Lyrantan is virtually undefended (there are a few cripples and a couple of theater transports), there was the idea also that Sam night want to call a reserve up there, which obviously takes that fleet back away from the front. My main curiosity here is an idea I had long ago that I never had the opportunity to try out. If I am able to devastate one of the minor planets it would be enough to invoke the capital defense priority, which would scramble up the coalition logistical network. The Lyrans are supplying much of the Klingon repair capacity and they have not bothered to set up any MBs in Klingon territory. Theoretically some ships could be adopted of course
Since we are not playing with victory points, I like to make the Hydrans aggressive as it creates interesting situations like this and is an opportunity to test ideas about tactics. The Hydrans have many opportunities to make things difficult for the coalition; the standard strategy of hunkering down in 0617 and fending off coalition attacks certainly leaves the Hydrans with more ships in the end (maybe) and prolongs the downfall of Hydrax. That allows the coalition player to dictate the pace and direction of action in that theatre, and if the coalition's goal is to take Hydrax it is going to happen one way or another. Might as well go down fighting (as the historical Hydrans did.)
The situation at the 2nd SB was an error; I had not originally intended to move the fleet from there, but added them in to bolster the battles against the unsupplied Lyran fleets. The reserve is a mauler and a bunch of SC4 ships; I can't imagine Sam would risk using the mauler so it is basically acting as a de facto BC. If he rolls well though it could cause significant damage.
The Kzintis did not fall for the FRD park trap; there were just too many reserve fleets and no way Sam would give them up like that. They did have a few opportunities though; there were some choice cripples (TGC, CLS) at the BATS in 0705 undefended. Unfortunately the Kzintis rolling two 1s in a row meant that only the base was destroyed. It is a key location on the Lyran/Kzinti front so hopefully that at least will help out down the line. We have 18 battle hexes to resolve this turn so the map is going to look a bit different by the end of this turn.

By Paul Howard (Raven) on Saturday, July 06, 2024 - 08:15 am: Edit

Not seing the Map makes it more difficult.... but it seems Karl is playing 'suicidal' Hydrans - why wasn't 212 attacked (to destroy the last supply point)?

But sending 4 ships on which will probaby see 2 or 3 die (assuming they do end up Out of Supply) before they can get back to Hydran space, for with luck - 2 minor plantes MIGHT get devastaed and so thats 16 EP's of Damage done.

Equally it's possible no planets will be devastated - and that TG+S and LGE 100-% should be defending the Capital - thats prohably 10 Ep's less of Damage done in itself.

Is there is any other Hydran ships in Hydran space (as there are points I could make whcih may make the above tactic really good - or really bad, but don't want to give anything away)?

By Paul Howard (Raven) on Saturday, July 06, 2024 - 08:27 am: Edit

Sorry Karl, you might want to re-read 511.4..... as it requires thr Capital Planet to be Devastated - not the other planets.

Yes - the Alliance needs to do be aggresive - but for every sneaky plan the Alliance can do - the Coalition can do twice as maney at this stage!


Fingers crossed the HN lives!!

By Sam Benner (Nucaranlaeg) on Saturday, July 06, 2024 - 09:49 pm: Edit

Paul, your comment on good luck with the Depot made me check - and realize that ships only make depot on 1, not 1-2. Which means that only f5l f5 made depot, and I'm a little sadder.

By Lawrence Bergen (Lar) on Sunday, July 07, 2024 - 06:40 pm: Edit

The depot rolls are done for every eligible self destroyed ship. (As opposed to capture of all for one roll per round.) 1:6 chance isn’t that bad if you are rolling multiple times, especially when the consolation is salvage cash.

By Paul Howard (Raven) on Monday, July 08, 2024 - 03:03 am: Edit

Lawrence

Yep - the numbers looked on the lucky side to me (as some ships would have been directed on or lost in persuit).

Saml - atleast it means more spendable salvage

By Sam Benner (Nucaranlaeg) on Tuesday, July 09, 2024 - 08:23 pm: Edit

Combat progresses on A4. The Klingons manage to use a smallish reserve to help out a few Lyrans - and kill the fourth Kzinti carrier this game! I had a mauler which made its shock roll when it crippled CVE+EFF (force of 38 only did 10 damage!), then I got enough damage to maul the group in pursuit.

Lots of pickets picked off in Kzinti space, expected losses of out of supply Lyrans. It would have been a fairly good turn for the Kzinti if not for this.

By Sam Benner (Nucaranlaeg) on Tuesday, July 16, 2024 - 10:35 pm: Edit

A4 is over. The LGE and TG-S retreated north, for some reason. They've got a pair of frigates with them. We'll have to let Karl tell his reasoning, but I don't see them doing anything other than disrupting a few provinces for a few turns until they die.

Similarly, in 1718, there are 6 frigates and a KN. There's no realistic chance they make it to the Feds before combat on A6 (and even that is unlikely).

C5 Econ:

The Lyrans have 127 EP. They build BC STT 4CW 2DW 4FF (60EP) and spend 64EP on repairs. They're probably going to have similar econ next turn, so I might need to cut back a few things, but they're mostly fine.

The Klingons have 175 EP (after nearly 12 EP in DBB - ouch). They build D7C D6M TGA D5V 6D5 2AD5 3F5 F5G 2F5E 3E4, activate 2D6 2F5 2E4 E4G, and convert D6M D6D D5V. They spend 47 EP on repairs, ending up with exactly 0 EP remaining. If I'm judicious with DBB this turn, it might not be too painful when I'm repairing all the ships that were crippled last turn and couldn't make it to bases.

The Klingons received 34.675 EP in salvage from 29 ships! I think that emphasizes just how many of the ships were small. The B10 is making good progress - already at 13/36.

Both depots are in use, and it's likely that the Klingons (at least - the Lyrans prefer putting in CLs) will continue to put D5s and smaller in the depot. I have a lot of cripples.

By Paul Howard (Raven) on Wednesday, July 17, 2024 - 02:51 am: Edit

Did the Lyran Capital Raid do anything?

Two very important ships....very out of position!

Sounds like Maulers are very much paying their way at the moment - with a tad of luck every so often??

What happended in the othher battles??

By Sam Benner (Nucaranlaeg) on Wednesday, July 17, 2024 - 10:44 pm: Edit

The Lyran Capital raid... didn't happen, unsurprisingly. The Hydran force was about 30 compot, which is similar to the defense force that was available (including IFFs from other systems).

The HN survived, but to minimal effect.

In Kzinti space, BATS 0705 was destroyed and BATS 1107 survived. The Kzinti reclaimed all of their planets but didn't keep control of anything outside of their planets. There weren't any significant casualties aside from the CVE (3-5 ships from each side killed, all small, and a few cripples).

---

On C5, SB1017 is pinned (essentially all the Klingons - 65 ships - are in 0617). A stack of cripples are in 1118 killing an hn so that they get some extra distance with retrogrades. The Hydrans left half a dozen ships in 1017, 0416, and 0215, and two good reserves off map. Just 27 Hydrans are in 0617, so there is zero chance it holds even with both reserves.

SB0215 has only taken 5 SIDS, so it's possible that the 19 Lyrans sent there decide not to kill it if both reserves come, but one reserve might not be enough. The Lyrans are also attacking 0416, 0315, and 0515 - because the focus on the capital means that those BATS were not attacked prior to this.

0515 is also where all the high-value cripples are. I expect it'll get a reserve in an effort to kill some of them, but the best pursuit force possible is PAL+PT HR TR 2LN SA 50/0, and an F5J was sent to help protect them. We'll see if Karl thinks that's a good use of the Paladin.

There's still some movement left to go in Kzinti space. The bulk of the Klingon fleet has not moved yet, but there are attacks on all of the Kzinti planets outside the capital. There are already 20 EP worth of cripples in the FRD park (of 32 capacity, assuming no FRDs are moved), so it's not impossible that this will be a quiet turn up north.

By Paul Howard (Raven) on Thursday, July 18, 2024 - 08:53 am: Edit

Well, the Lyran Raid was almost certainly going to fail - as the Lyrans could accept an Approach battle (which I didn't want to mention!) and use 18 Fighters from the SB/PDU's and crippled ships to buy 1-3 round depending on what cripples was there - so devastating even 1 minor planet was not certain.

The part that will hurt is that LGE and Scout Tug should be over a SB or the Capital - and so it's two turns of combats they have done nothing.

In addition - the LGE can make persuits far more dangerous (both the Fast Ship bonus and Compot) - so sending them 'to do nothing' hurts even more,

What was the ship numbers at the start of Alliance turn 4 - as it's difficult to work out why the Coalition seem to have so many ships able to defend the FRD parks and then get huge numbers of ships deep into Hydran space?

Question is - what is the Quality of the Coalitions in 617 and what us the Quality of the Hydrans and reserves which can get to 617?

Putting all the Static Forces in the Anthraxan system would allow Mobile Ships to Defend the MB (if its worth it - it probably isn't) - but if the Hhydrans have enough quality - 617 could hold.

But with so many valuable hulls elsewehre.... I am guessing they don't?

Last comment.... Hydrans probably should have only left 1 or 2 ships on each SB - allowing them to put the rest in 617.

Two near max strength reserves could tben help defend a SB - or go to 617 - as it is, the Attacker can calculate easily what is needed to kill a SB + 6 ships fairly easily - when a SB +2 Ships will require very similar numbers of attackers (the 2 ships can hide using the Flagship rejection rule, if required also).

In effect, both reserves can save a SB (assuming they are say 7-8 ships+ each)- but 617 will fall easily - so having more ships on a SB, will not increase the chance of it living, if the reserves go there. BUT they might make a difference in 617 if both reserves go there.

What are the ship strengths of the reserves?

By Sam Benner (Nucaranlaeg) on Saturday, July 20, 2024 - 04:36 pm: Edit

The Coalition is mostly high quality in 0617 - all the small ships got blown up last turn. The Hydrans are mostly low quality - and the reserves are:

1 - PAL HR TR 2LN 2SA 2CU PGS (this went to 0617)
2 - LC HR 2LN 3SA CU PGS (this went to 0515)

Karl has been defending the starbases quite a bit, and I think that's where the ship disparity comes from.

By Paul Howard (Raven) on Sunday, July 21, 2024 - 11:45 am: Edit

Mmm - - why was 2 War Cruisers in 1 and 1 War Cruiser in the other...

Depending on what is defending 617 and the SB's - but Karl perhaops should have all 3 War Cruisers in 1 Reserve - so that the War Cruiser Leader bonus would be gained?

Same point can be made about LN's (and KN's if there was any) - - it's an extra free Compot which could have been gained.

i.e. If one fleet had 2 x HR, TR - thats +1 compot

If the other fleet has 3 x LN - thats +1 compot.

So that's 1 compot per round in possibly 2 hexes this turn, in effect being lost.

Might not make much difference - but it probably is 1 more damagge for every 2 or 3 rounds??

In general though, I think it seems the Hydrans are trying to defend eveywhere with a modest force - rather defending where must be defended - and using Reserve Fleets to force the Coalition to over allocate forces where thet want to win.

If all the quality Coalition ships are in 617 - what is attacking the SB's?

By Sam Benner (Nucaranlaeg) on Thursday, July 25, 2024 - 12:03 pm: Edit

Not much is attacking the SBs, honestly. D7 7F5 at the 1st Fleet SB, just pinning the fleet there. Lyrans have a decent fleet in 0215. There aren't any Lyrans at Hydrax, so the reason that the Klingons are high quality is mainly just because only the high quality ships are available.

Combat in Kzinti space is just about over. Much lower intensity than previous turns, and the Kzinti still hold 1302.

By Sam Benner (Nucaranlaeg) on Monday, August 05, 2024 - 06:01 pm: Edit

C5 is over!

The Klingons have control of Hydrax, and the Hydran fleet is shattered. Not counting the LGE TG-S KN and 8 FFs off on doomed excursions through Coalition space, this is the Hydran navy:

2PAL LGE
LC LM RN 2DG THR 2TG D7A
2HR 2TR 4PGS
4KN 7LN 2LNG GRV
38 Frigates (including 3FCR)
2LAV FTS SAS FHL

Yes, you read that right. The Hydrans managed to capture the D7A - but that was pretty much the only thing that went well for them. The battle in 0617 went 14 rounds, costing the Klingons 55EP in repairs and D6M D7 D7A F5J. The Hydrans lost RN 3DG TG+BP HR 2KN 2CR, 3SAV FTS SAS, 10FFF MB 3PDU PGB 2FRD, and have 12.5EP in repairs. One of the DGs is in Klingon hands.

Other than that, the Hydrans still hold all of their own planets outside of the capital, they have BATS in 0114, 0515, and 0318, and SB1017 is still standing. The Lyrans have brought a couple of FRDs over to 0212 and enough ships that there's little risk there. They've got a strong reserve in 0212.

The Klingons have 22 ships in 0617 and another 23 ships in reserves in 1013 - so there's minimal chance that the Hydrans will recapture 0617 on their turn.

As the Kzinti theatre was quiet due to the Coalition trying to work through the repair backlog, there are three strong reserves (1001, 1307, 1307). The Lyrans also put an 8 ship reserve in 0707.

By Jason E. Schaff (Jschaff297061) on Monday, August 05, 2024 - 08:52 pm: Edit

Did you remember to charge the Klingons 10 EP under 312.14 when the D7A was captured?

By Sam Benner (Nucaranlaeg) on Monday, August 05, 2024 - 09:36 pm: Edit

Yeah, hence my grumbling.

By Paul Howard (Raven) on Tuesday, August 06, 2024 - 03:49 pm: Edit

Never seen a SFG be captured....

....shame it can't be repaired and work still!!


Isn't there also the rule that if a Klingon Admiral is in the Commander in the Battle, they are executed (yes - 316.312) - but your not playing with Admirals !!

By Paul Howard (Raven) on Tuesday, August 06, 2024 - 03:54 pm: Edit

What has been also sent to stop the Expedition?

By Sam Benner (Nucaranlaeg) on Wednesday, August 07, 2024 - 12:11 am: Edit

The Expedition consists of LGE TG-S HN in 0507 - and there's a half dozen DWs nearby to keep them there. The LGE could in theory reach 1202 this turn (and then Fed space in A6). The 0707 reserve might be sent to cause them trouble.

There's also a south Expedition of KN 3HN HNG SA SC hn in 1718. D7 F5L 4F5 6E4 F5J are nearby to stop that, so I don't think there's a way that it could reach Fed space on A6. Those ships could conceivably retreat back to 1017 this turn.

By Paul Howard (Raven) on Wednesday, August 07, 2024 - 04:13 am: Edit

Well, if the Expedition can get through.... thats a pretty goods Alliance boost!!

Ignoring silly mistakes on either side (reacting the wrong way, pinning in the wrong hex, retreating the wrong way etc), can the LGE be stopped?