Oh boy …

SAFs are bases for approach battles but not much else as they are mobile (if slow) and not static, like bases are.
Cannot be excluded (not a base).
Different locations, possible (they are mobile), but …
Escorted, yes (515.43).
Form [only one - (308.71)] if not escorted (308.74).

By Lawrence Bergen (Lar) on Sunday, February 16, 2025 - 10:30 pm: Edit

And this is for Jimi:

5-SAFs in the same hex

Here is my question to FEAR if we don’t get an answer:
After 3 rounds of approach they get to attack the SAF’s. I can escort each SAF, do the escorts or the SAF’s count as part of the command limits?

Or is 1 the main “base” and all others (are under that base with their escorts?

By Ryan Opel (Ryan) on Sunday, February 16, 2025 - 11:45 pm: Edit

The SAFs probably would not. The escorts would.

SAFs are treated as convoys in open combat. (520.51)

I believe all the SAFs would not be treated as a base for separate locations in the hex like multi-BATS in a would. (302.2122) says convoys...serving as "supply points" are designated at the start of each round and nothing about regular convoys.

Since the SAF has to be in the battle force you need a biggest command ship possible since each SAF+2 escorts is 2 command slots.

You can likely kill one in the initial battle, and then maybe another one in the Slow Retreat.

By Steve Cole (Stevecole) on Monday, February 17, 2025 - 10:28 pm: Edit

Ryan's answer is good with me.

By Bill Powell (Bleedingbill) on Sunday, March 23, 2025 - 11:06 pm: Edit

Hello there. I have a question concerning initial PF deployment. Rule 502.6 in the main rule book covers the time table for PF deployments, rule 502.612 also states that normal production limits for PFT's and PFs begins on the second turn of free deployments. The Master F&E Order of Battle that are available through this website are also specific on when PF's will be available. The question that we are having is that Tactical Operations book that became available on 2021 on section 551.4 describes a Light PF tender that is available for all of the primary races, except the Romulans, and these Light PF tenders become available starting on year 175 depending on the race. Our question is that the main rules show that PFs don't start becoming available until year 178 spring at the earliest, and that you cannot start building PFTs and PFs until the second turn of free PF deployments, but Tactical operations says that you can start building Light PFTs as early as turn 175 depending on race. Does that mean that PFs can be built for these Light PF Tenders or are we misinterpreting the rules entirely? Thank you for your time.

By Mike Erickson (Mike_Erickson) on Monday, March 24, 2025 - 11:42 am: Edit

Just play it as listed. The formal PF deployment schedule remains unchanged. Those empires with light PFTs listed earlier in TO are allowed to build them earlier (and replacement PFs as needed) within the limitations of other rules. These just represent either interceptor tenders, or PF tenders carrying prototype PFs prior to full deployment.

Interceptors are not really called out specifically in FE, but just abstracted into these early PF factors on a few ships.

--Mike

By Warren Mathews (Turtle) on Monday, March 24, 2025 - 01:51 pm: Edit

Bill, your question is misleading. Nowhere is Y175 mentioned in any part of (551.4). However, under (551.413) Light PFT production would start on PF2 for a given empire. The TacOps SIT may create a question about availability with a YIS date not matching PF2.

NOTE: I have not looked at the TACOPS SIT to match YIS dates of light PFTs to PF2.

By Bill Powell (Bleedingbill) on Monday, March 24, 2025 - 05:56 pm: Edit

Mike, I appreciate the answer. Am I to understand that the races who are scheduled to build these Light PFTs on the TACOP SIT are allowed to do so, paying the price listed on the SIT, and replacing those attrition units as needed. Is that correct?

Warren, It was not my intent to be misleading. I should have been more specific in my question. I did not get the time table for these Light PF Tenders from the TACOPS manual. I got the schedule from from the TACOPS SIT. The Lyrans and Kzinti get these units on year 175, the other three races can build them on year 178. I asked my question on this site because I didn't understand how I could build these Light PF Tenders 7 turns before PFs would be available for deployment. Thank you for your time.

By Mike Erickson (Mike_Erickson) on Monday, March 24, 2025 - 10:13 pm: Edit

>> I have not looked at the TACOPS SIT to match YIS dates of light PFTs to PF2.

The TO SIT (and the corresponding SFB MSSB) indicate YIS of most of the light PFTs as prior to PF1:

Empire	Unit	YIS	PF1	Delta	MSSB
Lyran	DWY	Y175	S-Y178	3 years before	(R11.91)
Kzinti	DWY	Y175	F-Y180	5 years before	(R5.108)
Klingon	F5Y	Y177	F-Y178	1 years before	(R3.157)
Gorn	BYD	Y178	S-Y182	4 years before	(R6.95)
Hydran	DWY	Y178	F-Y179	1 years before	(R9.117)
Romulan	CH	Y182	F-Y181	1 years after	(R4.13)

The only one with a YIS after PF1 is the Romulan.

--Mike

By Mike Erickson (Mike_Erickson) on Monday, March 24, 2025 - 10:33 pm: Edit

>> races who are scheduled to build these Light PFTs on the TACOP SIT are allowed to do so, paying the price listed on the SIT, and replacing those attrition units as needed.

Yes, that's how I read it. I'd further read:

---

Quote:

(551.413) Any empire can produce one of these light PFTs per year above the PFT limit; any further light PFT production counts against the PFT limit.

---

By Bill Powell (Bleedingbill) on Monday, March 24, 2025 - 11:38 pm: Edit

Outstanding, Thanks again Mike. I appreciate the response.

By Warren Mathews (Turtle) on Saturday, April 05, 2025 - 06:33 pm: Edit

By Lawrence Bergen (Lar) on Saturday, April 05, 2025 - 06:27 pm: Edit

---

Quote:

Can the Federation use its (602.17 and 602.172) diplomatic money during T1-6 to pay the cost outlined in (443.31) replacing a Com Con?

---

By Stewart Frazier (Frazikar3) on Sunday, April 06, 2025 - 06:54 pm: Edit

Note that there is no diplomatic income on T1 as that's when they are moved into the various capitals (unless they are moved on Turn 0 or earlier via special rules) …

By Bill Powell (Bleedingbill) on Wednesday, April 09, 2025 - 05:45 pm: Edit

Hello there. My gaming partner and I have just discovered that we have been using SWACS wrong for over three decades now. I'm hoping to get a clarification here. Section 518.43 in FO give the effects on enemy BIR for the various races and ship types. the line that shows a 2 point reduction for the BIR for the Klingons, Federation, and Orions. Is that reduction for their carriers and the fighters that they have deployed, or just for the fighters alone that have been deployed? Also, I haven't seen any mention of PFs. I would assume that their BIR would be reduced at the same rate as the fighters, am I wrong in this assumption?

By Ryan Opel (Ryan) on Wednesday, April 09, 2025 - 09:13 pm: Edit

Klingon and Orion PF's should fall under the -1 non-carrier.

By Stewart Frazier (Frazikar3) on Wednesday, April 09, 2025 - 09:13 pm: Edit

Bill, if it has drones, it's affected, if not, it isn't …

By Bill Powell (Bleedingbill) on Wednesday, April 09, 2025 - 09:52 pm: Edit

I appreciate the answers guys. I understand that the idea behind the SWAC is to jam drones, or rather the guidance systems which explains why the Romulans are also effected with a -2. I also understand that all Federation, Klingon, and Orion ships(non-carriers) suffer a -1 modifier to their BIR. My question is on the -2 line for Klingons, Federation, and Orion ships does this -2 modifier only apply to fighters, or does it include the carriers as well? I suspect that it only includes the fighters, but I have been wrong before, and again I appreciate the help here.

By Mike Erickson (Mike_Erickson) on Tuesday, June 10, 2025 - 08:56 pm: Edit

Since a PRD is just an FRD that can't move, and (314.254) refers to an FRD as being "co-located" with a base (and not a base itself), I'd say a PRD (like an FRD) is not a base.

Just my unofficial 2 cents.

--Mike

By Lawrence Bergen (Lar) on Tuesday, June 10, 2025 - 09:19 pm: Edit

Except that the rule also calls out a PDU which also cannot move but is considered a base-like unit in combat along with (Convoy, Tug supply mission...).

FEDS:

---

Quote:

(425.161) It is treated like a base (requiring an approach battle, not counting against command limits, etc.).

---

By Lawrence Bergen (Lar) on Friday, July 25, 2025 - 11:32 pm: Edit

Can someone point me to a ruling regarding captured ships being sold to the WYN? I thought it was there but the search pulls may rules and I cannot find it.

By Benjamin Lee Johnson (Jedipilot24) on Saturday, July 26, 2025 - 10:50 am: Edit

This is all I've found:

https://www.starfleetgames.com/discus/messages/37/21656.html?1202593395

Search for "WYN" and you will find mention of a captured E4 being "donated" to the WYN. Presumably this means that captured ships can be sold to the WYN as long as they meet all the requirements for doing so.

By Lawrence Bergen (Lar) on Saturday, July 26, 2025 - 12:50 pm: Edit

Thanks yeah what we are discussing is the timing and conditions (if any). Like if we are in open space and Kzinti capture that same E4 its almost worthless to use due to the high cost of conversion (more than to build it. So makes sense to turn it into cash. Scrap is something but WYN sale is much better.
Items to consider, questions:
1) it uses up one slot for the number of ships you can send to the WYN over 20 turns
2) does it have to “touch a SB’ like some of the capture options to be considered captured or can it be immediately sent?
3) as its captured but not converted does this status affect the cost the wyn would pay or they dont care?
4) if that same E4 (crippled) was in the offmap can it go i to the blockade run slot or does it have to move by OpMv?

While we are discussing captures it came up about the timing of conversion of the capture vs repair of the capture. Is their an order to this does one have to precede the other? Which is first? Does it matter? It would seem a capture would have to be converted first in order to have all the right parts from the new empires tech to be fully functional

By Lawrence Bergen (Lar) on Saturday, July 26, 2025 - 02:43 pm: Edit

O found this in Capt Log 31

CAPTURE AND RELEASE
— Cadet Dave Butler, HMCS Ontario
If you are playing with Planetary Operations , and are in the
middle to late war, it is possible that the Klingons, Lyrans, and
Kzintis may not feel that they have any spare ships to sell the
WYN during Turns #21 and later. Consider selling any small ships
you have captured.
While it is true that the WYN will not pay as much for a cripple,
they do pay more than you would get for scrapping the ship per (305.22). Further, you save all the expense of repairing and con verting a ship that, given the limitations on sales to the WYN, probably is not worth the price unless you are desperate for pin
count. Finally, you get the pleasure of selling a ship that your
opponent paid for, essentially transferring money from his empire to yours.

By Warren Mathews (Turtle) on Sunday, July 27, 2025 - 08:43 am: Edit

The captured ship is a part of your fleet at the moment of capture. See (395.21) where you could sacrifice it to gain a +1 in the next battle round if you desired.

You cannot sell it to the Wyn during retreat or retrograde movement. See (449.21).

By Lawrence Bergen (Lar) on Sunday, July 27, 2025 - 12:07 pm: Edit

Right indeed under 449.21 below is can only move by two methods.

(449.21) DELIVERY: To sell a warship to the WYNs, it must enter the Cluster by operational movement or blockade running. The ship being sold must be stated as being sold to the WYN prior to the start of movement, and cannot be intercepted by Reaction Movement (205.0) as it is a neutral ship. Ships entering by other forms of movement are confiscated without compensation.

So the Klingons lose their favorite F5 to the Kzinti in combat at the Dukes SB. The Lyran fleets have wiped out BTS 803 & 1004 and have fleets there they also have 1105 captured. The Kzinti fleet has the z-F5 with their fleet in retreat hex 1203.

This ship alone is declared neutral prior to moving in this situation (designated for sale). It can (and must i would imagine) move alone from 1203 to the Cluster unmolested (no reaction possible) even though the Klingons want it back.

The Kzinti fleet may not use the ship (and rule) as a reaction shield to advance the fleet because the other ships in the fleet are reachable by reaction. Right? So does the no reaction possible trump other reaction or is the Kzinti subject to “if you wan to sell it they must send it alone” otherwise take your chances?