This topic is for F&E Civil Wars suggestions, questions, proposals, complaints, campaigning, lobbying, begging, bitching, and moaning.

By Chuck Strong (Raider) on Tuesday, February 24, 2004 - 05:41 pm: Edit

Steve:

Can you share your vision of what CW might cover? (What wars, possible rules, scenarios?)

By Steve Cole (Stevecole) on Tuesday, February 24, 2004 - 05:59 pm: Edit

By Douglas E. Lampert (Dlampert) on Tuesday, February 24, 2004 - 06:02 pm: Edit

[Edited]

The advantage I see to Civil Wars is that it can present lots of little, quickly played, scenarios.

So I would like the emphasis to be on getting something where playing the entire scenario takes no more than 8 hours (4 would be better).

I assume Civil wars is the Wyn War of Return and Romulan Civil War, with the Vudar and Seltorian/Tholian actions thrown in.

The Vudar and Selts are in the main General war, and may need to be added, but the War of Return and Romulan Civil Wars can be standalones until Andro War comes out.

By James Southcott (Yakface) on Wednesday, February 25, 2004 - 07:45 am: Edit

Ha....4 hours, ya lightweight. I don't play a game unless it takes at least four hours to set-up

Joking aside it would be good to see some shorter scenarios.

By Jeff Wile (Jswile) on Wednesday, February 25, 2004 - 09:21 am: Edit

By Steve Cole (Stevecole) on Wednesday, February 25, 2004 - 11:25 am: Edit

Jeff: uh.... did you notice that this was done 15 hours before you asked for it to be done? There arleady is a Lyran civil war topic, the project is already subdivided into topics.

By Jeff Wile (Jswile) on Wednesday, February 25, 2004 - 12:24 pm: Edit

By Craig Tenhoff (Cktenhoff) on Wednesday, February 25, 2004 - 03:21 pm: Edit

This product might be a good place to put rules for resistance movements/planetary insurrections, since they're related to Civil Wars.

By Steve Cole (Stevecole) on Wednesday, February 25, 2004 - 03:23 pm: Edit

By Steve Cole (Stevecole) on Wednesday, February 25, 2004 - 03:31 pm: Edit

Impact of Civil Wars on historical GW scenario:

1. LDR units on map, violation of their border by Coalition makes them Hydran allies; Violation of their border by Hydrans makes them part of Lyrans.

2. WYN cluster invasion possible to capture scads of cool resources, but expensive and risky.

3. Kzinti civil war counters could be used for marquis fleet.

4. Romulan civil war counters could be used for just more romulan counters if you run out.

5. Lyran civil war or LDR counters could be used for more Lyran counters if you run out.

6. Seltorian rule already in Winds of Fire. Now, you'd have their counters on the board and could open up another fighting front if you wanted.

7. Vudar rule already in Winds of Fire. Now, you'd have their counters on the board and could open up another fighting front if you wanted.

By Kevin Howard (Jarawara) on Wednesday, February 25, 2004 - 04:23 pm: Edit

By Steve Cole (Stevecole) on Wednesday, February 25, 2004 - 04:33 pm: Edit

No, No, No, No, No, No, No, No, I hate the faction counter idea. One bump of the table and you have a mess. No, No, No, No, No, No, No, No, No. Besides, much of the fun of F&E is all the pretty colors.

By Steve Cole (Stevecole) on Wednesday, February 25, 2004 - 04:38 pm: Edit

By Jeremy Gray (Gray) on Wednesday, February 25, 2004 - 10:08 pm: Edit

A general rule that might be worth considering for this module: Defection.

This came to mind when I was thinking about the Romulan Civil war. There is at least one case where a ship switches sides right in the middle of a battle during the Romulan mini-campaign, and it it is easy to believe that similar incedents might occur in other civil wars. Rather than write a different rule to handle this for each individual war scenario, it might be worth a providing a general rule that each scenario falls back on.

For example, at the beginning of the game, one or both sides select X number of ships as future defectors. These could then be ordered to switch sides at various points in the sequence of play (movement or combat). Obviously, there would need to be some limits placed on this (key ships probably need to remain loyal - maybe a max compot limit on the ships that can be selected). Each scenerio would set the specific amounts allowed, sort of "filling in the blanks" in the generic defector rule.

Anyway, its just a thought. Might add a distinct flavor to some of these wars.

By David Lang (Dlang) on Wednesday, February 25, 2004 - 11:56 pm: Edit

better to make it random (frequent enough to balance out over the game but rare enough not to dominate thingg)

By Jonathan Biggar (Jonb) on Thursday, February 26, 2004 - 12:57 pm: Edit

There also ought to be special rules for ships switching sides before/during a battle. In particular, if a fleet is badly outnumbered, each ship ought to have a chance to defect to the other side before combat.

By Randy Buttram (Peregrine) on Thursday, February 26, 2004 - 01:21 pm: Edit

Would the GW-era (threatened) Orion Secession count as a potential Fed Civil War?

By Steve Cole (Stevecole) on Thursday, February 26, 2004 - 01:50 pm: Edit

Could be!

By Craig Tenhoff (Cktenhoff) on Friday, February 27, 2004 - 02:57 pm: Edit

During a Civil War, I can see great care being given to preserve fixed defenses and avoid damage to planets. To reflect this, I purpose the following Civil War only rules. Otherwise a race would so weaken itself by a Civil War to be easily overrun by its aggressive neighbors.


BASE/PLANET NEUTRALITY

CWB.1 A planet or base can 'go neutral' during a battle. After the battle is completed, the side remaining in the hex gains control of the planet or base. If both sides retreat, the side that controled the planet or base at the start of the battle regains control.

CWB.2 To determine if a base goes 'neutral', at the start of each battle round, roll 1 die. If the die roll is less than the number of SIDS steps taken by the base, it goes 'neutral' and no longer participates in the battle. This die roll is modified by the following modifiers: -1 if the base is not supported by at least one combat ship, -1 if the bases fighters have been destroyed.

CWB.3 To determine if a planet goes 'neutral', at the start of each battle round, roll 1 die. If the die roll is less than the number of PDUs/PDBs + 2, the planet goes 'neutral' and no longer participates in the battle. This die roll is modified by the following modifiers: -1 if the planter is not supported by at least one combat ship, -1 if the planets fighters have been destroyed.

CWB.4 PDUs/PDBs and Bases cannot be voluntarily destroyed by damage. If these are the only units to resolve damage on, they surrender instead.

By Jeremy Gray (Gray) on Saturday, February 28, 2004 - 03:07 pm: Edit

As somewhat not entirely familar with how this all works and the cost involved, would it be cost-prohibitive to include a single countersheet in this product with unique units?

The reason I ask is that in a lot of these civil wars, factions will only have "one of something". The Romulan K9R; the Seltorian Hive Ship; the LDR BCH,NCA,CC; the WYN PBB, etc, etc - I could very easily come up with quite a list. Some of these a key units we don't want to ignore, but including them will mean wasting two counters each on the duplicate sheetts. Printing these on a seperate sheet would allow for more efficent use of counters (something a lot of folks seem to be interested in). Personally, it is not as big a deal to me, but I don't claim to know a whole lot about the world of F&E.

I know SVC mentioned that if we want to have unique units, we'ld have to live with the extras produced by multiple countersheets, but it just seems to me that we could have a LOT of unique ships in this product, just due to the nature of some of these small fleets.

Anyway just a thought.

By Steve Cole (Stevecole) on Saturday, February 28, 2004 - 03:20 pm: Edit

It's not impossible, but we need to identify how many Kzintis, how many Lyrans, how many Roms it takes to make a good mix for a civil war. If that is into the "four sheets" range, then one unique and three multiples would be possible. But figure out an OB first.

By Jeremy Gray (Gray) on Saturday, February 28, 2004 - 03:43 pm: Edit

Thanks Steve, that might end up being a huge help.

By Chuck Strong (Raider) on Monday, March 01, 2004 - 11:46 am: Edit

As to very limited or unique ships for CW:

We should build a known list to help create the OOBs. So what do we need or should have on hand (this is just the to start the list):

LDR: BCH, NCA, CC, ?
WYN: Aux DN, PBB
RCW: 3xK5, 3xK5X, 3xKSX, 3xK7X, K7R, KC9, 3xKEX, VLV?
ZCW: ?
LCW: ?
Selt: HVS
Fish: ?
NeoT: NBB, 3xNDD, 3xNFF, Collared Ships?
Vudar: ?

By David Johnson (Djj) on Monday, March 01, 2004 - 01:15 pm: Edit