True, if the sculptor isn't comfortably with that scale, well I would hate to see the results.

By Loren Knight (Loren) on Tuesday, April 05, 2005 - 04:18 pm: Edit

Or do humanoids as 25mm and large races like Gorn, Kzin and Slirdarians as 28mm.

By michael john campbell (Michaelcampbell) on Tuesday, April 05, 2005 - 08:05 pm: Edit

Gorns may well be 30mm

By Andy Palmer (Andypalmer) on Tuesday, April 05, 2005 - 09:15 pm: Edit

Hydrans may well be 20mm

By Loren Knight (Loren) on Wednesday, April 06, 2005 - 12:14 am: Edit

And Cromargs too!

Thinking about it more I sure would like to see the Kzinti figures!

Ya know, the Kzinti are not my favorite characters to write about but they sure have some of the coolest images. The race, their ships etc.

By William F. Hostman (Aramis) on Wednesday, April 06, 2005 - 01:55 am: Edit

The mm scale is for a "normal Human" (5'8")...

It used to be you measured from top of cast-on base to eyes (old style 1960's and 1970's era). Most 15mm figs really are 15mm from top of base to eyes.

Somehow, 28mm evolved out of 25's having to do with measuring to top of head instead of to the eyes.

And there have always been a few companies measuring to top of head; their 15mm's are just a bit smaller; it's hardly visible except when using mixed units.

In 25 vs 28mm, it truly makes a BIG difference visually when side by side.

28 is currently more popular than 25mm.

While I am unsatisfied with the choice of 28's, I agree with the reasoning behind it.

So those gorn will still be 28mm minis, even though they are likely to be 30-32 mm tall. Assuming of course, that the sculptor keeps true to scale. (28mm is roughly 5mm=1')

Also, to be honest, for figs, especially for RP, I'd rather see plastic than metal: easier to modify, lighter to carry. (arms and legs can be moved much easier in plastic than in pewter, and many other useful bits. Much lighter to carry, and often less damaged by dropping.

(Of course metal is less likely to be blown over by a stiff breeze... and supposedly easier to manufacture.)

By Loren Knight (Loren) on Wednesday, April 06, 2005 - 02:42 am: Edit

The issue of plastic vs metal is expense. Dies for injection molding plastic are very expensive. Molds for metal are much much cheaper.

By David Lang (Dlang) on Wednesday, April 06, 2005 - 02:45 am: Edit

from SVC's comments you need to sell several tens of thousands of an item before it's worth switching to plastic

By F. Douglas Wall (Knarf) on Wednesday, April 06, 2005 - 03:02 am: Edit

Although I have no interest in painting miniatures, I would not object to the non-prepainted minis. I would probably leave them unpainted. As long as there are enough different poses or sculpts or whatever, I would have no problem telling them apart.

By Steve Cole (Stevecole) on Wednesday, April 06, 2005 - 09:48 am: Edit

I used to be big into 15mm civil war. I had an entire Union Corps. (Having lost the coin toss, I had to give the sainted Confederates to my business partner.) I painted them this way....

I had a brigade's worth to start and just slopped blue paint on them and moved along. I could tell the regiments apart because each was a different pose.

When I bought a second and third brigade, I went to a system with a dot of color on the base for the brigade and a dot of color on the cap for regiment. As before, the overall paint job was just sloppy blue.

Time went by. I got another brigade and when doing the color dot thing, I decided to go through and paint all of the boots black.

More time went by, another brigade came in, and I painted all of the rifles brown.

As time went by, I added more brigades (to a total of seven or eight, plus the overstrength cavalry brigade (could be made into two weak brigades) and scads of artillery). Whenever I got the paints out for some other reason, I would pick a color and a uniform detail and just go through and do them all.

At one point I got a bunch of napoleonic figures in a trade with a guy and repainted them as civil war, including that NY regiment with bearskin hats, the marines with their banana hats, and some zuaves.

Starships could be the same way. You buy a few new ones and straight out of the box they get a spray paint coat of primer of the appropriate color and can be used in gaming with a straight face. As time goes by, you pick a rainy afternoon or an evening of quiet chick flick TV and get out the paints, pick a color and do that color on every ship (that needs the color for some detail). In a month or two, you have a nice box of nicely painted ships.

By Steve Cole (Stevecole) on Wednesday, April 06, 2005 - 03:52 pm: Edit

Current theory is to do four packs of 3 figures for the initial release, probably in August.

I want to look forward not at specific plans but at options and opportunities. I don't want to paint ourselves into a corner, but I don't want to lock into one specific plan for the next 36 packs of three over three years and find out that the market doesn't think that is a good plan.

I would like to discuss the concept of being able to do "head and arm changes" that would allow us to do a lot more people at lower sculpting cost. I have in mind selling "platoon packs" of up to 15 figures in $40 clamshell boxes.

My theory is that one of the first packs will be FEDERATION OFFICERS including a human, vulcan, and andorian. Later we could do packs of federation crewman, federation marines, federation explorers, maybe Federation [whatever].

My theory is that one of the first packs will be KLINGON OFFICERS and include three Klingons, or maybe two Klingons and a Dunkar. Later we can do klingon crewmen, klingon marines, and Klingon Empire Races. In the first pack, one of the klingons would be female.

My theory is that one of the first four packs will be ROMULAN OFFICERS including, well, three romulans (one of them female). Later we can do Romulan storm troopers and romulan crewmen.

My theory was to do four packs initially, and if the above are three of them, what is the fourth? One possibility would be to do "aliens" and include one each Tholian, Orion Slave Girl, and Gorn. I am sure there are other theories.

My theory was to follow up with two more packs in October. These might well be Kzinti and Lyran. We could do them as officers or whatever.

After that, we might think about two more packs for December (assuming that the first four sell).

Eventually, I'd like to do a shuttlecraft that is assembled from cast parts.

Obviously, we need male and female for each race that has any difference (e.g, Hydrans, Gorns, Tholians probably don't.)

By David Keyser (Riov_Tafv) on Wednesday, April 06, 2005 - 04:05 pm: Edit

Well, some of the GW minis cast legs and torso as a piece. Toss in a head and a pair of arms to make a blister pack. Same main body goes to make several different types. Mainly this is used to change out the weapons a particular mini uses. This might be an option for the troopers of a given race.

By Loren Knight (Loren) on Wednesday, April 06, 2005 - 04:07 pm: Edit

Regarding Tholian mini's: Part of what I'm doing for Tholian's RPG is to do a full work up of Tholian physiology. To assist with the art which will include full front and side views and also comparative views of growth, I'm probably going to either make a 3D model or a sculpture. It can be hard to render the facets in 2D as an original design and facets are important.

By the time a Tholian mini will be sculpted there will be pleanty of data available!

By Scott Tenhoff (Scottt) on Wednesday, April 06, 2005 - 04:25 pm: Edit

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Quote:

Toss in a head and a pair of arms to make a blister pack.

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By Steve Cole (Stevecole) on Wednesday, April 06, 2005 - 04:59 pm: Edit

Let's worry about plastics next year. Or the year after.

I will ask the sculptor if he can do the bodies in two pieces so players can mix them up, but I don't think it will work. But what do I know?

By David Keyser (Riov_Tafv) on Wednesday, April 06, 2005 - 05:43 pm: Edit

The ones I was thinking of were all pewter. They took a fair amout of filing to make them fit together without too much of a seam.

Amother option is something Reaper has done and infact ADB did for the starships. A kitbash pack of different weapons.

By Andy Palmer (Andypalmer) on Wednesday, April 06, 2005 - 06:22 pm: Edit

Having them in parts will limit their sales, IMO. I for one hate having to do more than base my miniatures. I despise the GW plastic regiments for that reason (6-12 parts per figure). Note: I dot not consider myself a miniatures guy, but am an avid RPGer and I do own over 1000 fantasy minis.

By Gary Plana (Garyplana) on Wednesday, April 06, 2005 - 07:23 pm: Edit

As I've been away for a couple days, I know I'm late, but my two cents worth:

15mm miniatures are just too small for real detail, plus they are a pain to paint properly. Make them 25mm or larger, please.

By Scott Tenhoff (Scottt) on Wednesday, April 06, 2005 - 07:36 pm: Edit

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Quote:

15mm miniatures are just too small for real detail,

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By Tony L Thomas (Scoutdad) on Wednesday, April 06, 2005 - 08:15 pm: Edit

Hey Scott,
I had a whole epic Space Wolf army with unit insignia on one shoulder pad and type (assault / devestator / tactical) insignia on the other shoulder.
Looked good, but waaaaaay too much effort to ever do again.

By Dale McKee (Brigman) on Wednesday, April 06, 2005 - 08:43 pm: Edit

SVC,

On the topic of scale, I would recommend 28mm, as (having painted and played with anything from 15mm to 28mm) they have the greatest visual appeal. I'm sure you've got a great sculptor, and this will let him/her show their stuff.

BTW, since I enjoy painting miniatures - I would be happy to offer my services in painting minis to PD players who are not so inclined, as I'm sure others (such as Mike Raper) would be, for a reasonable fee!

By Will McCammon (Djdood) on Thursday, April 07, 2005 - 12:17 am: Edit

SVC -

RE: multi-piece shuttlecraft mini; this would probably be much cheaper to produce and have a lower price point if cast in resin instead of metal. Room temp. pour-casting with some vacuum preperation instead of hot metal and spin.

Steve Jackson did this with some of the OGRE buildings.

There are quite a few outfits making small-market aviation/armor/scifi resin kits. Federation Models comes to mind. They could handle the production and aren't going to disappear (like Cory McDaniels...).

By F. Douglas Wall (Knarf) on Thursday, April 07, 2005 - 02:58 am: Edit

I could deal with separate arms that could be inserted into the body in a couple different ways to create different poses. Too much more than that and it's excessive.

By Gary Plana (Garyplana) on Thursday, April 07, 2005 - 12:49 pm: Edit

Will, I don't know how many resin models you've seen, but I collect resin ship models. The observed quality of them upon arrival is poor (compared to lead or pewter), even from the very best makers. In order to get rid of all the flawa, you have to putty them to fill in the voids, sand them, paint them, etc.

IMHO, there is no way anyone can make a 25mm resin model in a profitable manner. The quality would be so low that the reject rate would be astronomical.

By William F. Hostman (Aramis) on Thursday, April 07, 2005 - 09:34 pm: Edit

One of the things about resin models is that they seldom get spun; many can be spun into their molds IF the molds are correctly laid out, and the equipment is present, and the right resin is used. I've seen some gorgeous resins unpainted at my FLGS... but they have all been fairly large pieces of scenery, too.

Realize, also, a 28mm SCALE Shuttle will be roughly 6x3x2 inches when done. If done as an exterior only prop, it shouldn't be that bad, even in resin. Doing it "Playset style" would be considerably harder.