SVC, I'm a bit miffed about PD20 not having a char sheet included in the book. You can't use a D&D char sheet for PD and not everyone owns modern. I feel that I just purchased an incomplete game that will just sit on my shelf. Without a char sheet in it how are people supposed to roll up a char? It also seems to me that the unwillingness of you not wanting to put the effort into a char sheet will mean there will be no support to PDd20.

When I got the book I was looking through it and thinking this is cool. Then flipped to the back looking for a char sheet like all d20 games have. There wasn't one. I think that was a very large mistake by not putting it there. You say there was no room for the char sheet, but you basically put adds for the other games you do. Also don't you print and bind the books there? So adding 1 more page for a char sheet dosn't seem like it would be that big a deal.

None of this is meant to be personal. I'm just speaking as a customer.

By Dale McKee (Brigman) on Tuesday, August 02, 2005 - 09:13 pm: Edit

Dear God, you new gamers are a spoiled lot. When I used to play D&D, way back in the dark ages before PDFs, computers, Palm Pilots, and every other bloody thing, there was this little thing called "Binder Paper" and "Pencils" along with "Dice" that were made out of real plastic, not electronic. Sure, it's not as "sexy" as the slick graphics you can put together in Acrobat, but it works.

A lack of character sheet is hardly a deal-breaker, and I can't imagine in this day and age a group of gamers that lacked ONE person online amongst them. I'm sure an online PDF will be made available soon enough.

By Barton Pyle (Bart) on Tuesday, August 02, 2005 - 09:59 pm: Edit

Dale, I've been playing rpgs since the early 80's. I remember those days myself. But the gaming industry has evolved alot since those days. You look at any new rpg and it WILL have a char sheet included that is tailored to its system. The lack of one in PDd20 is a downside for the game.

For example on how important a char sheet is. I told my wife that PD didn't have a char sheet, her reply was "How are you supposed to make a char then?"

And also with a char sheet it will look like a finished product.

By Dale McKee (Brigman) on Tuesday, August 02, 2005 - 10:49 pm: Edit

Barton,

Sure, it's evolved from those days. But man, I remember when RPGs were "games of the imagination". Are you telling me that your average gamer lacks the imagination to either 1.) create their own character sheet; 2.) Download a character sheet from the web or 3.) write the dang thing on binder paper?

If so, well, that's just another sad mark to the attention span of the modern gamer.

That said, when I get back from my Disney trip next week, I'll probably take a stab at a character sheet for PD: D20. Just because I can. ;-)

By michael john campbell (Michaelcampbell) on Wednesday, August 03, 2005 - 12:18 am: Edit

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Quote:

I would NOT attempt to create a templet for each and every combination. (What happens if two mixed-race beings have offspring?????)

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By Troy J. Latta (Saaur) on Wednesday, August 03, 2005 - 08:32 am: Edit

Here's how I did it for the Munchkin races (standard D&D with a couple twists)
http://www.angelfire.com/hero/munchkin/races.html
Sorry about the ads, but it's a free site.
Is it safe to say that races can only interbreed within two Zorski steps from each other? That would allow Human/Vulcan crossbreeds (don't know why anyone would want to do that...) and disallow Human/Gorn, which would just be weird (something like the two in the tv series 'V' maybe?).

By Steve Cole (Stevecole) on Wednesday, August 03, 2005 - 10:31 am: Edit

Funny that nobody actually working on PD20 ever mentioned any need for a chracter sheet. Indeed, everyone involved said "don't waste the space, we use one from the web anyway".

Like I said, send me one and I'll upload it, but I haven't a clue what one would look like so there ain't nothing I can do about it until then. So send me a sheet if you can, but no point in even mentioning it until somebody does.

By Steve Cole (Stevecole) on Wednesday, August 03, 2005 - 10:33 am: Edit

Andy: By any stretch, humans and vulcans are not breedable (copper blood vs iron blood), but there is that Spock fellow, so for all practical purposes, all humanoids are breedable.

By John Sickels (Johnsickels) on Wednesday, August 03, 2005 - 12:14 pm: Edit

I always assumed that Spock was the result of some genetic tinkering.

By Steve Cole (Stevecole) on Wednesday, August 03, 2005 - 01:02 pm: Edit

I have a question. Since the PD20 book says you have to have PH3.5 to use it, why can't you use the CS in PH3.5? If and PH3.5 doesn't have a CS, why is it an issue that PD20 doesn't?

By Richard Wells (Rwwells) on Wednesday, August 03, 2005 - 01:54 pm: Edit

The Character Sheet in 3.5 does not work for all D20 games. I have not seen PD-D20 but some common problems can be

1) Special game world needs like military rank

2) To handle any special variant rules. Examples can include rules that alter hit points, rules that create new stats (like reputation), or simply if the characters are expected to use more feats than normal

D20 has so much variability now that unless the game is identical to standard D&D, a specific character sheet is required.

By Nick G. Blank (Nickgb) on Wednesday, August 03, 2005 - 03:27 pm: Edit

The PHB3.5 CS has space for wizard spell lists (could maybe be used for telapathic powers if the character has it?), spell resistance (not needed for PD), a skill list (which I am guessing does not completely match the PD20 skill list).

I haven't seen PD20 yet, and while I would guess the char sheet in PHB3.5 would be mostly usable, I can see there are enough little differences like the above that would make a game specific one real nice to have.

By Steve Cole (Stevecole) on Wednesday, August 03, 2005 - 04:42 pm: Edit

"Nice to have means" I can wait for somebody to do one rather than trying to design one myself.

But seriously, if anybody would just whip one up in any kind of graphics or page layout or word processing document (or some combination of them) and email me printable images I can probably whip the thing up in an hour. I just haven't a clue how to do one.

Or, even simpler, just use the one in PH3.5 and tell me what changes to make on it.

By Steve Cole (Stevecole) on Wednesday, August 03, 2005 - 05:02 pm: Edit

Looking at the PHB-3.5 sheet....
Front: delete spell resistance but leave a blank spot for such things as radiation tolerance to be written in, Replace skill list. Back, replace entire right column (spells) with something useful (what?). Somewhere, add military rank.

By Andy Palmer (Andypalmer) on Wednesday, August 03, 2005 - 08:21 pm: Edit

Need to add Action Points and Replace the Coin/Treasure area with Wealth. I suspect the D20 Modern CS is a closer match.

By Troy J. Latta (Saaur) on Wednesday, August 03, 2005 - 10:40 pm: Edit

I liked the 3.0 Kalamar sheet, as it only had printed the skills "everyone" gets (usable untrained) and left a lot of blank lines for any other skills you buy. With the plethora of skills available, that made each sheet somewhat customizable to the character.
As far as a closer match, I'd bet Star Wars is closer than Modern. In fact, there's an Excel-based charsheet for SW that could probably be qquickly (4 hours of work, or thereabouts) modified for PD20.

By Joshua J Brumley (Sweeper) on Thursday, August 04, 2005 - 11:33 am: Edit

I agree with all folks who say a character sheet isn't neccassary. Helpfull? Heck Yeah! But not neccesary. Look at Palladium Books. They usually don't put Char sheets in their Core books at least and they they still sell pretty well. Besides a pdf sheet for each version of the game, (PD1 included), will go a long way to alleveate the griping about there being no character sheets in the core books. Maybe you could get someone to design the sheets to look like a PADD read-out for semi-uniqueness.
Oh yeah, SVC are you going to allow templates and/or plugins for GURPS Character Assistant for GPD as well as the other versions? A PD20 plugin for E-tools for example. Or does that fall under the nebulous no-nos of your license?

By Steve Cole (Stevecole) on Thursday, August 04, 2005 - 01:14 pm: Edit

Joshua: I'm not going to authorize such things (but I'm not going to do a darn thing to stop them either).

By William F. Hostman (Aramis) on Friday, August 05, 2005 - 11:43 am: Edit

Joshua: I don't have a palladium core book WITHOUT a character sheet, or several, in it, except for the first edition mechanoids. If they haven't been putting them in the recent releases, its due to having them on their website. Of course, I've not bought a palladium book since RIFTS 2ndEd came out.

In fact, I can't think of a single core rulebook I've bought in the last 10 years (and that is QUITE a lot, more than 20 core rulebooks) that lacks one. I can think of several which were far from optimal, but I can't find a single one without a sheet.I haven't acquired PD 20, but character sheets should be part of every core ruleset.

Having a PDF is still a good thing, tho, as it means ease of replication of, and more professional look for, the replicated sheets.

By Steve Cole (Stevecole) on Friday, August 05, 2005 - 01:20 pm: Edit

I have said before, I shall say again....

1. Somebody do one and I'll use it.

2. Somebody tell me how to do one and I'll do it.

By Joshua J Brumley (Sweeper) on Friday, August 05, 2005 - 05:33 pm: Edit

Um Will, Rifts 2nd ed isn't out yet

By Joshua J Brumley (Sweeper) on Friday, August 05, 2005 - 05:43 pm: Edit

Add to the fact that 'Every RPGer' I've met and known for the last 5+ years,(being in the Army means you get to know a lot of people), have just either DL'd their sheets form the website or made one up via word processer, spreadsheet or something else, (I saw one in MS Paint). Personally, I haven't photocopied a char. sheet since 1999. Professional looks aside, Character sheets really don't need to be in the books anymore, unless ADB wanted to put an insert in the book containing a few char. sheets for beginners.

By Steve Cole (Stevecole) on Tuesday, August 09, 2005 - 02:10 pm: Edit

Klingon d20 cover (wow!)

By Andy Palmer (Andypalmer) on Tuesday, August 09, 2005 - 02:21 pm: Edit

WOW!!

By Steve Cole (Stevecole) on Tuesday, August 09, 2005 - 02:29 pm: Edit

Klingon marines in the warp core chamber! We're hosed!