Richard, by my calculations, you can easily add another zero on the end of that.

Figure that an F&E hex is 500 parsecs, and if we assume that there's a stellar body an average of every 5 parsecs, then you have 100x100x100 = one million such stellar bodies per F&E hex.


Garth L. Getgen

By F. Douglas Wall (Knarf) on Friday, November 18, 2005 - 10:01 pm: Edit

I'm rather undecided on the potential for starship combat. The main problem there is system. The old GSpace3 starship combat system, with the mods from GPD3 is still a serviceable system, but no longer supported. The vehicle system in G4e Basic Set can be used, but there are a number of obstacles there to be surmounted before it is really useful. If I'm looking to get this adventure published, I might want to leave out starship combat, since there is no vehicle combat system currently supported by GPD.

Y163 sounds about right. I want there to be political tension, but not outright war. Just enough that the Federation would look to covert means to hamper the Klingons, instead of just blowing them up.

The Y164 Gnasher raid could be a reprisal for this event. Depending on how it's done, the Klingons may take that long figuring out who did it, or it may be a matter of waiting for the perfect opportunity for revenge.

I'm planning on having the Klingons being rather benign and even helpful to the planet. They employ locals in the dilithium mine (a possible way in for PCs) and stay on good terms with the local nobility.

But there is one faction that is not happy about the current state of affairs. They used to be in favor in the High Court, but have lost that favor to the Klingons. If an opportunity (read: the PCs) were to arise which would discomfit the Klingons, they would readily take advantage.

By Richard Wells (Rwwells) on Saturday, November 19, 2005 - 12:46 am: Edit

If you don't expect any of the PCs to be in positions to command starships, you could simply abstract the combat using a variant of the old mass combat system. Adjust chances based on what actions the PCs did to help trigger open conflict in the system like bluff attempts gone wrong.

You might also consider preparing similar quick resolution methods in case the PC's actions lead to open warfare between factions or nations on the planet.

By michael john campbell (Michaelcampbell) on Saturday, November 19, 2005 - 03:19 am: Edit

I'm not sure if it's "no longer supported" but the SFB/GURPS modifier table should still bve usible to have SFB be the ship to ship combat system for your adventure.

If the PCs have one ship then it's destruction is a big enough deal to make a three hour battle out of so it's worth while, just don't try it late towards the end of the session, call the session and warn the players that the next session will cover the ship to ship combat.

By F. Douglas Wall (Knarf) on Saturday, November 26, 2005 - 05:42 pm: Edit

Unfortunately, I'm not an SFB person. I have a copy of Star Fleet Battle Force (The card game) and enjoy it, but I'm not sure I want to take the plunge into either SFB or FedCommander. And if I want to get this published, I'd like to make it as official as possible, using only material that a GPDer would be reasonably able to use.

If they do have a ship, it's likely just a shuttle or a Free Trader at most. Actually, since this is a Prime Directive mission, they would probably be reliant on transporters, so as to leave no unnecessary artifacts for the natives to find.

By michael john campbell (Michaelcampbell) on Saturday, November 26, 2005 - 10:29 pm: Edit

You could boil it down to just the team.

In my adventure in MPA, the ship left on an emergency medical mission and thus the heroes can't just beam down a matter-disintergrator or a mind-reading tricorder.

Remember a Federation CA has 4 Photons, 6Ph-1s, 3 Transporters, 2 Tractors ( this all from memory ) 4 admin shuttles and 430 crew, 60 of `em marines.
In PD terms that a small army with all the ancillary stuff thrown in.

Taking the ship away is probably the first thing you should consider when begining to write an adventure.

By Richard Wells (Rwwells) on Sunday, November 27, 2005 - 12:36 am: Edit

Knarf: A fully detailed ship combat could be a very lengthy appendage to the scenario. Devoting 4-8 pages providing information about a battle that the PCs can only watch and might not happen if the PCs perform successfully wastes space. If the information does not actively concern the PCs, one should do everything possible to abstract it.

MJC: That is a good way to encourage players to quit. Not much point in providing the resources if one prevents their usage. Figure out how to do the adventure with the PCs in full possession of all available equipment.

Okay, one can pull off the strip PCs of most of their support about once a decade provided the back story as to why the resources are unavailable is credible to the players. This is based on reviews of the old AD&D adventure A4 where the PCs equipment is reduced solely to loincloths. But when that becomes a recurring gimmick, the result is annoying.

By Gary Plana (Garyplana) on Sunday, November 27, 2005 - 04:42 am: Edit

In that case. the GM should design an adventure that can easily be accomplished by a small team, but a large force trying to do the same task would fail. Small team = player characters, of course.

For example, a Federation starship entering orbit over a moon run by the local mafia would set off all kinds of alerts, while a small team could land to get their shuttle resupplied, and do their real mission while waiting.

A more military example: a scouting mission to determine something before a major attack; the state of the defenses, sabotage the defsat network, etc.

By Steve Cole (Stevecole) on Sunday, November 27, 2005 - 01:19 pm: Edit

It is an axiom of PD1 that ships had a lot of things to do and would often drop off a few people to handle one problem then zip off to another star system to handle another problem.

By Loren Knight (Loren) on Sunday, November 27, 2005 - 01:32 pm: Edit

Or perhaps just need to leave to maintain their patrol presense. Patrol is very important and if a planet side problem can pull a starship off patrol then Pirates would be causing all sorts of problems every day.

By michael john campbell (Michaelcampbell) on Monday, November 28, 2005 - 12:08 am: Edit

---

Quote:

MJC: That is a good way to encourage players to quit. Not much point in providing the resources if one prevents their usage. Figure out how to do the adventure with the PCs in full possession of all available equipment.

---

By michael john campbell (Michaelcampbell) on Monday, November 28, 2005 - 12:13 am: Edit

Yick...dontcha just hate double posting due to your internet connection going down.

By Gary Plana (Garyplana) on Monday, November 28, 2005 - 12:15 pm: Edit

Your example in italics above -- poison sword, bees, etc -- is a pretty good example of writing bad rules, ie "the rule book says ..." and the rule is kinda stupid.

It's a balancing act. Always has been, always will be.

If the mission was something a starship could do from orbit, it would. So obviously, the mission MUST be something a starship cannot do from orbit. The mission has to be something that a starship cannot do, but a small team of characters can, and that's where the game should begin. The balancing act is the hard part.

On the one hand, the PCs have access to all sorts of neat, hi-tech equipment, and I'm sure you've heard of Clark's Law: "Any significantly advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic." In other words, under normal circumstances it is very, very easy for the PCs to overwhelm their opponents.

A game HAS to be challlenging to the players if they are to have any fun; the more challenging the better. Phasers against bow and arrow (for example) is NOT challenging, so either the PCs do not have phasers (and the GM needs to have a really really good reason), or the PCs have them but cannot use them for some reason, or else the GM had better up-gun the natives so that they DO pose a challenge to the PCs.

I agree with what you're saying, mostly. But I think that the point you're circling is that a GM is responsible for writing a good adventure scenario. On which point I am in perfect agreement. That is where the balancing act comes in, and that is why writing a GOOD adventure is so hard.

By michael john campbell (Michaelcampbell) on Monday, November 28, 2005 - 08:30 pm: Edit

---

Quote:

If the mission was something a starship could do from orbit, it would. So obviously, the mission MUST be something a starship cannot do from orbit.

---

By Loren Knight (Loren) on Monday, November 28, 2005 - 09:25 pm: Edit

MJC: If it's a secret ammo dump then the ship in orbit won't be able to hit it because it cannot find it. In this age it isn't secret if any old ship can swoop in and find it. While a planet might not have DefSats it will likely have some sort of basic satilites (any mid-level coloney would).

The ammo dump would need to be located on the ground by people. After which the ship might be able to hit it. But then ships cannot hit ground units. Ground units must be hit from the ground or perhaps from the air (air units capable of ground attack).

Also, an Ammo dump might be in an area where colateral damage from a photon barrage would be unacceptable.

By Patrick H. Dillman (Patrick) on Monday, November 28, 2005 - 09:40 pm: Edit

Like the basement of a Hospital or inside a University. (Just some RW examples that might help GM's in their search to make the game even more challanging.) ;)

PHD

By michael john campbell (Michaelcampbell) on Monday, November 28, 2005 - 10:36 pm: Edit

Blowing up the ammo dump would be as bad, if not worse than a photon strike, one would assume.

Also is ship based scanning more capable than civilian scanning via satelites?...if not defsats.
If so then a base unknown to the civilian governement is possible.

By Loren Knight (Loren) on Monday, November 28, 2005 - 11:15 pm: Edit

I rather think a photon torpedo hit is something akin to a tactical nuke (although the damage would be more akin to a nutron bomb but not exactly.)

Blowing the ammo dump on the ground could be done with many small devices in select places. You do not need to entirely explode the target, just make the individual componants useless. And if the ordinance is a nuke then you can destroy the device without detonating the nuke.

Then again the best thing is to capture the dump and use it as evidence. The ship certainly can't do that from orbit.

By Loren Knight (Loren) on Monday, November 28, 2005 - 11:25 pm: Edit

MJC: It depends on the technological level of the government on the planet. If they are of a level equal to the real world of today then there is no place on earth you could hide a base that would be observable by a starship in orbit from us at our tech level.

If you could hide it from us it would not be observable from space. That means it's under ground, under buildings, or under water.

The advantage that an in place government would have is prolonged observation. A Starship can see an awful lot too if there is prolonged observation although it wouldn't be as long as the ground forces have had.

In this case the Starship Captain would communicate with the authorities on the ground and gather as much intel as possible (and probably share some). Then a Landing Party(s) would be sent down to the most likely places to pin point the location and take appropriate action, probably in conjunction with the local police.

By Gary Plana (Garyplana) on Tuesday, November 29, 2005 - 01:11 am: Edit

So make my earlier comment "something a starship cannot or should not do from orbit." It's such an obvious extension that I didn't think of it.

As for my thoughts re the concealed base argument, may I refer you to RESCUE AT ROON which is in GPD4? Been there, done that.

By Loren Knight (Loren) on Tuesday, November 29, 2005 - 02:17 am: Edit

Yup.

By F. Douglas Wall (Knarf) on Thursday, December 01, 2005 - 08:56 pm: Edit

Having something else happening on or to the ship so that they can't rescue the landing party goes back to the original source material.

For my adventure, my plan is that it is both a Prime Directive mission and an espionage mission. This means that the ship (and any other high tech materials) have to remain undetected not only by the native populace, but the Klingons as well. They will be beamed down to the planet and the ship will either have another mission or be hiding in the system's asteroid belt to avoid detection. They may have an arranged check-in time when the ship is in communication range to request either more equipment or information.

By Gary Plana (Garyplana) on Friday, December 02, 2005 - 01:22 am: Edit

One question you should ask yourself is "what happens if the party gets caught/revealed/detected?" which is something any plan would have to allow for.

This will have an effect on whether the ship hangs around in the system, or if it goes on another mission.

By F. Douglas Wall (Knarf) on Friday, December 09, 2005 - 08:37 pm: Edit

If the party gets caught, I was thinking that they would have to reveal themselves to the native rulers. Since they've already met the Klingons, finding out about the Federation isn't so much of a culture shock. But the Federation isn't going to replace the Klingons. The ideal scenario is for the party to convince the nobility that they are allowing their planet to be exploited by an advanced race that they have no ability to stop once they get started. However, if they kick out the Klingons while they still can, they can develop on their own until they are able to interact with the Klingons and the Federation as equals, not inferiors.

If it works, it doesn't break the Prime Directive too much (since the Klingons already did that) but this should be treated as a last resort.

By Gary Plana (Garyplana) on Friday, December 09, 2005 - 09:35 pm: Edit

... The ideal scenario is for the party to convince the nobility that they are allowing their planet to be exploited by an advanced race that they have no ability to stop once they get started.

So let me get this right: the party is going to tell the natives that the Federation is going to let the Klingon Empire take over their planet?

Ummm, Doug ... you might wanna rethink that!