Couldn't anyone who has seen "Mirror, Mirror" be able to figure out how the primaries work in the alternate universe and take a guess at the rest?

By F. Douglas Wall (Knarf) on Wednesday, May 26, 2004 - 02:30 am: Edit

Chris: We're not trying to do "Mirror, Mirror" all over again.

Richard: I agree. If the designer is not careful, all the uniqueness of an alternate can get lost in all the minutiae. My proposed solution is a bit different. Make the changes huge. Don't set up a change that alters everything. If something lies untouched, perhaps we should look elsewhere.

Another challenge I can see coming up regarding the SFU is the scope of the history already written. Would an alternate have to have that much detail expended? Or would we present a "snapshot?" ("The year is Y125, ten years after the Andromedans conquered the entire galaxy.")GURPS Alternate Earths uses this technique to great effect. It could greatly simplify things and make this sort of thing more immediately useful.

By Randy Buttram (Peregrine) on Wednesday, May 26, 2004 - 12:59 pm: Edit

I don't think it's been mentioned yet, but Captain's Log #28 has an alternate universe in it, one where the Sun Snake hit one of the Gorn homeworlds' star rather than the Paravians' star. Nicely done AU.

By F. Douglas Wall (Knarf) on Tuesday, June 01, 2004 - 03:08 am: Edit

Unfortunately, I'm a pure GPDer, so I don't pick up the Captain's Logs. It sounds like an interesting story.

Which Gorn homeworld was destroyed in the story? If it was the main world (The most technologically advanced one, I don't recall the name off hand) that would have the most repurcussions. Without the technological base provided by that world, the rest of the area would be weakened to such a degree that they would probably be easy pickings for the Paravians, if not the Romulans and how the picture changes depends on who gets there first and best.

If it's one of the lesser Gorn worlds, it would probably result in the loss of economic resources that could force the Gornms into alliance with the Paravians whether they like it or not.

If the Paravians are in charge of that region, they'd probably give the Gorn a taste of their own medicine and might not be prepared for the Romulans when they come charging in.

If the Gorns and Paravians found themselves in something resembling an equal partnership, they'd probably be a formidable force, giving the Romulans a smaller share of the galactic pie.

By Mark Norman (Mnorman) on Tuesday, June 01, 2004 - 07:42 am: Edit

Knarf: no, it much simpler than that, without their main world, the Gorns are easily wiped out by the Paravians, leaving a race hostile to everyone around them (the Federation and ISC accepted Gorns as refugees, the Romulans accepted them as slaves, resulting in the Paravians hating all of them).

By Mike West (Mjwest) on Tuesday, June 01, 2004 - 11:35 am: Edit

Knarf: You are forgetting a primary point about the Paravians: their genocidal, nearly instinctive hatred of the Gorns.

There can never be an alliance between the Gorns and Paravians in any alternative universe without changing the Paravians at such a basic level that they stop being Paravians and become something else.

By F. Douglas Wall (Knarf) on Wednesday, June 02, 2004 - 01:31 am: Edit

Alright. I'm corrected. I never claimed to be an expert on the SFU, but am pleased to be continually educated.

By Mark Norman (Mnorman) on Wednesday, June 02, 2004 - 04:15 pm: Edit

Knarf: Don't worry, the Paravians have only been in 3 products so far (P6,Y1 and CL28). they are not exactly a major part of the history.

By Gary Plana (Garyplana) on Wednesday, June 02, 2004 - 08:17 pm: Edit

That is about to change -- the Paravians are getting a full write-up in MPB, the way the Hydrans were in MPA. Also in CL29, IIRC, which is a month away.

By Christopher E. Fant (Cfant) on Wednesday, June 02, 2004 - 10:51 pm: Edit

Still not a major part of the history. Poof, there are gone.

By F. Douglas Wall (Knarf) on Thursday, June 03, 2004 - 01:38 am: Edit

But if they had survived, things would be different. At least in their part of space. That's the fun part of alternate histories: examining what repurcussions an event would have.

By Robbie Chastain (Leandar) on Thursday, May 12, 2005 - 09:46 pm: Edit

If you are still interested in doing an "alternate universe" concept, a friend of mine and I came up with a history of the Mirror Universe for RPG use. It was used with races from the original version of Prime Directive and some ideas from GURPs and combined with "official" material, but it could easily be converted for GURPS use to get rid of the "official" stuff if that would be something you all are interested in.

By Bruce Leslie Grubb (Maximara) on Tuesday, September 06, 2005 - 01:45 am: Edit

The "Mirror Mirror" universe has been a long favorite of mine and an idea about it that IMHO makes sence tying its history to the "City on the Edge of Forever" - it is the result of the timeline Mccoy accidently created. The fun part is thinking about how certain episodes would ahve gone down in the Empire's universe (assuming they occured at all)

By Gary Plana (Garyplana) on Tuesday, September 06, 2005 - 02:53 am: Edit

While he was up here in Colorado last weekend, SVC was teasing me about doing a PARANOIA version of Prime Directive. The PARANOIA game system -- and the mindset that goes with it -- would be absolutely perfect if set in the Mirror Universe.

If nothing else, it would bring a whole new layer of meaning to "Red shirts." Heh, heh.

By Ken Humpherys (Pmthecat) on Tuesday, September 06, 2005 - 12:31 pm: Edit

Ah yes PARANOIA, where changing a lightbulb is a life threatening experience. (I only died twice)

I agree that it would be the perfect setting for the mirror universe.

By F. Douglas Wall (Knarf) on Friday, September 30, 2005 - 08:42 pm: Edit

Bruce: When Last Unicorn Games had the Star Trek license, they did a time travel book that included a brief treatment of that history. The short version is: Nazis took over the Earth and tried conquering the galaxy once they got Warp drive. The alien races were organized such that it was pretty much WWII in space

By Steve Zamboni (Szamboni) on Monday, October 17, 2005 - 06:53 pm: Edit

I've added a web page with a slightly different version of the Looking Glass map. I'm open to suggestions for further tinkering.

Looking Glass

By Russell J. Manning (Rjmanning) on Saturday, December 17, 2005 - 01:47 am: Edit

Suffering from a wicked case of insomnia and read the entire thread in about 2 hours so I wanted to add my 2cents.

I like Jeremy's original map.

I like the concepts of the Militaristic Locigal VSE with humans as trusted associates. Seems to reverse the human/vulcan relationship of SFU.

I like the idea of the Economically driven Klingon Commonwealth with a knighthood class as the military (thinking Battletech's FWL).

Love the concept of a Klingo/Romulan Empire and a Romulan Republic as well as 3 different Gorn States.

Like the concept of split Hydrans spreading across the galaxy and appearing in other races fleets. If doing that, would use the suggestion of them not firing on each other.

I agree with Geoff Conn that I think the ISC needs to be a large power to counter act the VSE in the East. The response to the Klingon Commonwealth attacking an East distracted VSE is the larger Cat Alliance in the west.

By Chris Carlsen (Jimmyjimjam) on Friday, October 06, 2006 - 01:45 am: Edit

What would a the feds, roms, gorns, etc. look like if they were conquered by the Andros?Anyone have any ideas?

By Michael Powers (Mtpowers) on Friday, October 06, 2006 - 02:12 am: Edit

They'd probably look like fine-grain dust with all trace of useful organic material removed.

By Chris Carlsen (Jimmyjimjam) on Monday, October 09, 2006 - 07:42 pm: Edit

The andros are similar to the borg then?

By Michael Powers (Mtpowers) on Monday, October 09, 2006 - 10:09 pm: Edit

Note that this is my own interpretation--ADB has never given out any information about the actual Andromedan beings, other than that "nobody has ever seen one and been able to tell anyone else--even a Vulcan mind-meld will not work". I think that they're probably something like Fred Saberhagen's Berserkers, or maybe Greg Bear's Killers. Von Neumann machines, the end stage of the self-induced evolution of the robot probes of a long-dead civilisation, with no purpose other than to spread and consume. Presumably one could turn them off, if one knew the actual "off" switch, but the dust of the bones of the Andromedan's creators has long since collapsed into the event horizon of the singularity that was their star. Somewhere in the galaxy is a gigantic...artifact, something like a starbase but it's the size of an entire star cluster, the product of hundreds of worlds' useful matter, everything but the carbon molecules stripped down and used to create this edifice that is forever built higher and wider and further by machines whose purposelessness has become purpose, whose complex programming mimics a malevolent hunger...

By Gary Plana (Garyplana) on Tuesday, October 10, 2006 - 12:45 am: Edit

Not that I will oonfirm or deny your assumptions, but you got one thing wrong: the Andromedans are extra-galactic.

By Chris Carlsen (Jimmyjimjam) on Wednesday, October 11, 2006 - 12:57 am: Edit

does anybody know of any alternate histories of the general war?im making one and curious if its worth a ••••...

By Troy J. Latta (Saaur) on Wednesday, October 11, 2006 - 08:33 am: Edit

CL28 has an alternate history, but I'm not sure if there really is a "General War" in it.
Pesky Sunsnake...