This would be a good place to discuss the type of manual defined by the title.

By Richard Brown (Richardb) on Tuesday, September 17, 2002 - 07:46 pm: Edit

Regarding the discussion of What-If worlds for GPD in the Racial Sourcebook group. I understand not wanting to spawn a host of alternate timelines. However, would there be interest in a single adventure, or series of adventures, involving traveling to and geting back from a alternate world? The general premise would be similar to the Trek TOS episode "Mirror Mirror" but with a radicaly diferent alternate universe

By Steve Cole (Stevecole) on Wednesday, September 18, 2002 - 01:31 pm: Edit

Such a thing would be possible.

By Robert Gilson (Bobcat) on Thursday, September 19, 2002 - 02:30 pm: Edit

An interesting cross-over supplement would be a Mirror Star Fleet Universe with information for both SFB and GPD. You could even do it half and half. My guess the SFB side would have some changes to some of the races ships and maybe some new toys. The GPD side would be background changes in the empires, race changes, new weapons and lots of other stuff.

By Steve Cole (Stevecole) on Thursday, September 19, 2002 - 02:44 pm: Edit

Robert: That's possible. It could be about 1/3 fiction and background, 1/3 SSDs, and 1/3 GURPS stuff. That way, both groups would buy it.

By Loren Knight (Loren) on Thursday, September 19, 2002 - 02:54 pm: Edit

No Federation but the Earth Empire?

Klingons= Economic war barrons?

Romulans= Logical Isolationists?

Kzinti= Race ruled by the Females?

Hydrans= Kamakazi fighter/drones?

Gorns= Pirates.

Orion= Brutally wiped out by the Earth Empire Forces for trying for independance. Now a prison colony.

Tholians= Attempted invasion and were wiped out.

Seltorians= Escaped Tholians and settled in Klingon space as a subject race.

Lyran= Part of the Klingon Kingdom as a honored barony.

Andomidans= Turned tail and ran!

By Loren Knight (Loren) on Thursday, September 19, 2002 - 02:57 pm: Edit

ISC=same but facing a very diferent universe!

By Loren Knight (Loren) on Thursday, September 19, 2002 - 03:09 pm: Edit

Klingons: With money comes B-10s galor!

Earth Empire: That more accurate photon some people have always wanted!(i.e. shift the chart to be the same as a -1).

By John Sickels (Johnsickels) on Thursday, September 19, 2002 - 03:19 pm: Edit

How exactly would a SFB Mirror universe work in terms of the license/Paramount? Would that be a problem?

By Steve Cole (Stevecole) on Thursday, September 19, 2002 - 03:31 pm: Edit

John: So long as we did our own unique creation, it's not a problem. (The problem is that there could be 999,999 of them, so why is the one you wrote any more valid than the one Loren wrote?) And if we're not going to print all of them, how do we pick just one to be THE alternative reality? Star Trek did so, of course, by having DS9 episodes that reused this original alternative reality, in effect declaring it to be the only one they would portray. I don't mind the idea of creating one cohesive and interesting one, but I'm not really going to be interested in the alternative reality of the month.

By John Sickels (Johnsickels) on Thursday, September 19, 2002 - 03:37 pm: Edit

SVC: OK, I understand. It's usable as long as it's not a direct copy of the universe depicted in Mirror, Mirror.

By Loren Knight (Loren) on Thursday, September 19, 2002 - 04:32 pm: Edit

I would think that would be safe.

Also, as to choosing which universe, I would suggest the following. Choose by each race an opposite creation in someway. Try to establish a balance in the new way the race operates. Look at verious submition sumarys (accept only ideas in short form). Give a few tweeks here and there and then Steve Cole ultimately decides what is right.

Frankely, I don't want anything that isn't finalized by SVC. If it is not then it's not real SFB.

I would like to see this be a historical thing. "The Other World" could be an opening scenario.

Also, address to every one that though there is one less than a million alternate universes, only one will be published.(If this happens.) Too many is too many.

By Loren Knight (Loren) on Thursday, September 19, 2002 - 04:36 pm: Edit

I guess what I'm trying to say is that the whole Alternate Universe doesn't have to be written by only one person. Gather ideas for races individually and tie them together into one history.

Of course, I know squat about game design so I may be spewing poo.

By Steve Cole (Stevecole) on Thursday, September 19, 2002 - 04:47 pm: Edit

Loren: I have found it very hard to integrate histories and backgrounds written independently into one unified whole. I wrote most of the original unified whole as, ahem, whole cloth, and then the various people who successfully proposed new races were the ones who cleverly made theirs fit into the existing whole.

If we were going to do one specific alternative reality, we should try to identify two or three unified themes, and those will define everything else.

I'd suggest that weapons stay the same in most cases. It's not much different from a GPD point of view to have Romulan drones and Klingon plasmas.

You might start from the idea of a Klingon democracy vs a Federation autocracy (communist or nazi, your choice). Then figure maybe the cat races were all allies with each other. Might be that the Paravians beat the Gorns and what Gorns are left are a small enclave protected by the Feds. Just some musing.

By Richard Brown (Richardb) on Thursday, September 19, 2002 - 04:48 pm: Edit

Some of these ideas put what I've been working on to shame. All I've done is extrapolated from what if the Tholians ended up somewhere else.

SVC: Why pick a single alternate as official? Why not do a series of "Alternate Universe Missions" with enough background material in each to let people create more GPD adventures or SFB scenarios in that setting? Then perhaps write the adventures so they may be played alone or linked into a campaign of the PC's visiting various alternates while trying to get home.

By Scott Tenhoff (Scottt) on Thursday, September 19, 2002 - 04:54 pm: Edit

How about the Lyran, Kzinti's, and Hydran's conquer all Klingon space during Early Years, and then the major rebellion starts at Klinshai, spreading throught the kingdom, liberating original subject races, and then forming one big "United Klingon Republic" With the Klingons being the effective leaders because they were able to throw off the yoke of the invader's first.

The other 3 powers not being able to put it down because of internal political bickering between them all. But not outright war.

LOL, give the Klingons what they gave the Hydrans.

By Loren Knight (Loren) on Thursday, September 19, 2002 - 04:57 pm: Edit

I only suggested one just to keep a handle on it. We players tend to take our inch and run like mad!

SVC: Ya, that works. I totally agree that a foundation should be laid. Then build on that. It is my hope that, after reviewing verious ideas, you would announce "OK here is the foundation. We're gonna build on this."

Hmmm. I guess I should worry about it since how could it be any other way?

By Loren Knight (Loren) on Thursday, September 19, 2002 - 05:00 pm: Edit

Oh ya, I also full heartedly agree NO NEW WEAPONS.

Maybe some very minor tweeks but NO NEW WEAPONS (or systems or SSDs). That would get way out of hand.

By Steve Cole (Stevecole) on Thursday, September 19, 2002 - 05:02 pm: Edit

Richard: Because infinite alternative realities would just be confusing. One is kinda neat, kinda spooky, kinda catchy. Every one you do after the first one just diminishes the specialness of all the others. If a GM wants to do one, fine, but we're not.

Seltorians arrive instead of tholians. Breed like crazy. Klingons annoyed. Film at 11.

Scott: Such exact reversals tend to be tiring. I would tend to say, instead, that the democratic Klingons simply didn't build a huge military and invade all their neighbors. We end up with a "four powers" that rarely fight wars but constantly bicker and squabble and cheat and raid and sneak.

By John Sickels (Johnsickels) on Thursday, September 19, 2002 - 05:19 pm: Edit

How about the Vulcan Star Empire?

Vulcan embarks on conquest, absorbs Earth and Alpha Centauri when those societies are about 20th century tech, uses them as subject races much like the Klingons do. The VSE would extend through "real" Federation and Romulan space. Enemies are the Gorns and the Klingons.

By Jessica Orsini (Jessica) on Thursday, September 19, 2002 - 05:23 pm: Edit

Here's one that's already has the underpinnings in SSJ#1....

[Alternative Mode]
The Peladine, who developed warp technology long before the Lyrans, don't dilly-dally in expanding and forming a fleet and such. They wind up locking horns with the newly-expansionist Lyrans at the same time that the Lyrans are fighting the Carnivons. The Lyrans come out the worse for wear...and then are hit on from the south and east by the Klingons, who clean their clocks for good. The remaining Lyrans run to...you guessed it, the WYN Cluster.

The Carnivons are not completely eliminated (and occupy the northernmost portions of Lyran space), continue a sniping war with the Kzinti for ages, and eventually ally with the Klingons against them. The Peladine occupy the western chunk of Lyran space, glaring at the Greater Klingon Empire (GKE) and Carnivons across the new border, which runs about mid-way through Lyran space.

Y134, the Hydrans come back and manage to take about two-thirds of the Kingdom back, with the GKE retaining the eastern third. Hydrans ally with the Peladine, in an enemy-of-my-enemy pact.

The Klingons use their enhanced economy to reclaim their easternmost province from the Tholians around Y150 or so, and then start moving into Romulan space, gobbling up vast tracts until met by the Gorns, who are taking advantage of the situation by doing their own conquest. The Romulans are eliminated as a force by Y166, with their space split about evenly between the Klingons and Gorn.

Y168 sees the Klingons use their lesser Carnivon allies as fodder to kick off an invasion of Kzinti space, with the Klingons intent on taking the better portion of it as their own. The Peladine and Hydrans decide that this would be a good time to kick the KGE in the ribs to try and push the Klingons out of the former Lyran and Hydran space. The General War ensues, with a massively bloated KGE going up against first the Kzinti/Peladine/Hydran alliance. The Federation/Gorn Alliance, which has been tacitly supporting the Kzintis for a few years, join the war shortly after.

No LDR is ever formed, and the composition of the WYN is predomenantly Lyran.

By Kenneth Jones (Kludge) on Thursday, September 19, 2002 - 07:03 pm: Edit

One alternate reality I would like to see expanded on is the Andro conquest of the Alpha sector.

IIRC it was a scenario in X1 with the Fed GSC Darwin(?) needing to get back in time from the future.

A lot of the info already exist ship wise in nook's and crannies of the SFB universe. Such as the Mauler's for every race etc.

I might even try my hand at writing an adventure along those line's. Or if desired a sourcebook for it.

If no one else graps it first. It might be to limited in and of itself. But I tend to run campaigns around a Grand Aypocalypse(sp?). So it might be a viable campaign setting, except for a few draw backs scenario wise.

By Randy Buttram (Peregrine) on Thursday, September 19, 2002 - 08:32 pm: Edit

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Quote:

Federation autocracy (communist or nazi, your choice).

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By Randy Buttram (Peregrine) on Thursday, September 19, 2002 - 08:34 pm: Edit

How about an alternate where the Hydrans were able to work it out with their neighbors to peacefully co-occupy the same star systems, the Hydrans in the gas giants and the others on the terrestrial worlds.

By Loren Knight (Loren) on Thursday, September 19, 2002 - 08:45 pm: Edit

Well, the general premise on my part was that the Alternate Universe was a little "Mad" but, shucks, I don't see why it HAS to be that way.

Hydrans might spread out all over the Galixy, living in everyones gas giants. And all neutral. Hmm.