Archive through September 20, 2002
Star Fleet Universe Discussion Board: Prime Directive RPG: NEW KINDS OF RPG PRODUCTS:
Alternative Reality Manuals:
Archive through September 20, 2002
I thought Hydrans lived on worlds like Titan not on actual gas giants. Either way the idea of them spreading througout the Galaxy as a neutral race has an apeal. They might become the only neutral arbitrator of disputes everyone trusts, or perhaps their neutrality would alow them to become interstelar bankers like the Swiss on Earth?
Hmm.
I would suggest that the Federation be the same one ST:TOS had, but before good-Kirk talked the bad-Spock and mucked it up as seen in DS9. In fact, that could make a good scenario / campaign in the time frame when bad-Spock is trying to change things. That would be the best tie-in for StarTrek / non-SFB fans. I can even see the cover art with the dagger & Earth symbol.
Of course, the big question is: will Paramount bulk at ADB using it???
Garth L. Getgen
the concept of a mirrior universe where races that became extinct in this galaxy, thrive in the mirrior universe, and of course the ones that thrived here are extint or reduced to a foot note of history in the mirrior universe is a cool idea and gives more developement to new races and new ideas.
Garth: yes, they will, which is why we aren't going there. Somebody check to see why Garth isn't getting the memos.
Nazi or communist: There IS a difference. In communism, the government owns the factories. In Naziism, corporations do.
Synthesis of ideas for the "one alternate reality"...
Feds: Autocracy under Vulcans who are still logical. The Autocracy of Logic, if you will. Strong military but not necessarily militaristic or aggressive.
Klingons: Became a democracy about Y140, after the hydrans returned. Moderate-sized military, non-aggressive.
Romulans: Not sure. One thought was there aren't any and the Paravians have that space. Another was that the Romulans are still pretty much the same as before.
Kzintis & Lyrans: Allies against the Carnivons, enemies of Feds.
Gorns: Much smaller area due to non-expansion and raids by Paravians. Protected by the Feds.
Tholians: Never arrived. Replace with Seltorians who breed like flies. A few Tholians can show up and make a deal with the Klingons or Romulans or Feds or somebody.
Orions: Much more friendly toward the Klingons and Romulans.
Hydrans: Neutral and nobody's enemy; run by Guilds with the royal family a distant memory. They rent neptunian worlds in Klingon and Lyran space and a few in more remote areas including the Federation.
Andros: Same as ever. Something has to be a constant.
WYNs: Dominated by Lyran outcasts.
LDR: Even more cozy with Hydrans.
SVC wrote: Romulans: Not sure. One thought was there aren't any and the Paravians have that space. Another was that the Romulans are still pretty much the same as before.
I vote "no Romulans," with the normal Romulan Empire split between Paravian forces and the Vulcan Star Empire/militaristic Federation.
My idea for the VSE would be logical, autocratic, militaristic, but not imperialistic/expansionist, the idea being that the logical path the Vulcans took in this universe was not the logic of pacifism and non-violence, but rather the logic of military power, but with an idea of not wanting to "bite off more than you can chew."
Vulcans would be the dominant race, with humans and other Fed races being subservient, though not quite to the same extent that the subject races are in the normal Klingon Empire.
Vulcans: Or, we're not gonna start problems, but we have an awdully big stick for beating the ever-living tar out of whoever does.
Alex: Yeah, something like that.
Perhaps in this universe the Vulcans had been wacked around a bit by the Old Kings. When the Old Kings leave, the Vulcans decide "that's not going to happen again," so they expand outward and absorb the resources and peoples of Earth, Alpha Centauri, Andor, Rigel, etc., and build them into a militaristic Empire as the ultimate form of self-defense.
Would it be possible to bring in non-alphan elements, I.E. the Bolosco and Iridani from Omega? Something from the LMC perhaps?
ADM
A few more ideas.
Reverse the Seltorian and Tholian roles: The Selts attempt a rebellion and fail; they escape in one or more of those huge Nest ships. The Tholian 312th Battle Squadron arrives here Y180-ish while tracking them down.
The Old Kings never depart, the Klingons and Vergarians remain Subject Races. Or, the Vergarians destroy Klinshai, and the remaining Klingons assume the role of the Pirates, with special attention to the Vergarian Empire.
The roles in the Vulcan/Romulan split are reversed; the "Surakians" go off to form their own logical empire, and the people remaining on the Vulcan homeworld are emotional, not especially logical, and warlike. (The Surakians develop the cloaking device as battle is not logical; Frax Submarine ship classes?)
In this possible Vulcan Star Empire, local cultures and planetary governments have considerable autonomy in terms of things like religion and culture, but the foreign policy, economics, and general leadership of the Empire as a whole is set by Vulcan. So instead of a loose Federation with economically aggressive Humans as the leaders, we have an Empire with paranoid and rather militaristic Vulcans in charge.
Gary: I like the idea of no Vulcan/Romulan split of any kind....the development of logic on this Vulcan differed from ours....perhaps Surak wasn't a pure pacifist in this universe.
Remember, Spock himself is not a pacifist, recognizing the importance of military force under some circumstances (see Balance of Terror). Wheras it appears that Surak WAS a pure pacifist. Perhaps in this alternate reality Surak was more like Spock, and thus the Vulcan/Romulan split over pacifist logic never occured.
I happen to want something different with the variations in history/racial concept impacting players. For example, with the Lyrans, different visions in how strong the central government versus outlying counties are. In a weak Empire with strong counties, every crossing of a County border (possibly even province border) would enter the PCs into a region governed by completely different laws. While if the central Lyran Empire is strong, Imperial functionaries would be available to appeal any ruling of a minor Noble. Very different RPG level experiences.
For complete SFU background change would a fragmented universe where the various races arrived in space later. More open uncontrolled regions with more room for minor space faring races and borders for less lawfully minded PC groups to hide out over. (A more traditional SF RPG background.)
A number of proposals presented here don't seem to apply to a traditional RPG setting. At the PC level, changing which border a given race appears or changing the ruling government has little effect. (Though those who like playing ruler diplomancy style campaigns notice it, but the players tend for a autocratic belligerence no matter what the official background claims.) Plus too often, the alternate universe puzzle scenario becomes an exercise in endless globs of explanation instead of playing.
Some ideas I have on the Alternate Universe product(s):
If done as a magizine I would like to see sections for SFB, F&E, and GPD.(Counters sold seperatly?) this could be a great place to publish some conjectural ships (Aliance mauler, weapons on fed engines etc.)
This product could also have an issue dedicated to the Darwin futre and the WebWar idea for F&E, each fleshed out the the whole Star Fleet Universe.
Richard touches on something that I would like to see for racial sourcebooks: a section (maybe a page or two) on "adjusting the dials" as it were for a given race's background. Not an alternate universe, but "here's some things you as a GM can do to adjust the race and setting". Richards first paragraph is a good example. Very short, very succint, makes a good jumping off point for groups that want to explore such options.
SVC did'nt seem to like any of my ideas. 
OH well! 
The other ones are good too! I rather like the idea of the Vulcan Star Empire. I would submit though that while the Vulcans wouldn't trust the top councel positions to humans I would say they would learn to apreciate humans for their passion and ability to get things done in effective ways that Vulcan logic wont allow. Make Humans their trusted(mostly) leutenants.
I have trouble seeing Klingons as non-agressive. Rather I think that they could be agressive in another way. The one way they are not agressive in "our Universe" is Economicly. So I would like to resuggest, just once, that they are Economic Barrons, using a style of government Britan used around the time when Parlament put forthe the Magna Carta. Give them a Empiror and a Democraticly Elected Prime Minister. The Empiror makes Economic Forign Policy and the Military is in his name but is under the control of Parlement.
Hydrans: Since they don't make war with any one perhaps they never developed the Hellbore. Back to old style ships only. One minor change could be most ships didn't use fighters at all and replace all/most fighter bays with cargo to support their new merchant lifestyle. The Stinger I should be their most advanced fighter.
And there needs to be a war. A big one!
ISC: Enter Alpha while running from the Andros?
Please excuss any nasty misspellings above.
Rename VSE to Vulcan InterStellar Empire. That way it would be VISE. Kinda logical.
ADM: Let's leave Omega out of this. When we do the omega module, people who want to bring them into this or other realities can do so.
Gary: Seltorian/Tholian: I said that.
Old kings; no, they stay gone.
Vulcan-Rom/reversal: Obvious choice, perhaps too obvious. And frankly, I want the logical Vulcans running the Federation, not off playing romulans.
Richard: I like the Lyran thing. Let's do that.
David: No, I will not put webwar and darwin in this product. we might do either or both of those separately. Remember that Darwin is only a slight variation, not a whole new universe.
F&E, not in this product, but perhaps as a separate F&E module exploring this and other alternatives.
Loren: I like the economic Klingons.
SVC: I just had a thought. It seems likely that a miniature printing of a new F&E map needed to show the new borders. No big. But I thought that a printing of that same hex map in blank form might be useful for those who want to create their own alternative realitys. Possibly with a few notes and guide lines and blank copys of any charts necesary. Of course keeping it to a minimum.
Sounds plausible.
Just a few thoughts.
Supose the Vulcan Empire has restrictions on becoming a military officer or holding political office, making both only open to those who have embraced Vulcan mental discipline. This would mean that members of subject races have to "out Vulcan the Vulcans" to atain either position.
Supose the Romulans exist as a social group, but they are emotional pacifists. They have a couple of colony worlds, but politicaly they are controled by the Vulcan Empire.
If the Klingons are economicaly agresive and the Hydrans are neutral, trading with everyone are the two powers alies or competitors?
For the ISC. How about the member races start out at each others throats instead of peacefully. The wars between them prevent expansion beond a handfull of systems and they never expand far enough to encounter the other powers in the sector.
I like the idea that the ISC races (which are recorded in the history as having fought wars before the ISC was formed) never formed the ISC but remained a patchwork quilt of semi-neutral statelettes barely able to stand the sight of each other.
Economic Klingons and spread out Hydrans would be competitors and allies and partners and enemies.
Could be the Andros enter the Galaxy near the ISC and creat a sort of despirate unity. The the band of fleeing ISC races proceed a strong Andro invasion. The Alpha Sectors ultimatly survives because of the intel provided by the ISC races. Perhaps there is a united push to take back the ISC worlds (instead of the megallanic cloud) which get divided among the Liberating Races (Fed, Rom, Gorn etc.) only to fall into a sector of rebelion as the old ISC races struggle to regain their freedom. Finally forming the beginnings of the ISC at the end of the games time line.
I really like the fact that the Paravians and the Carnivons grow into major races. Very, very good plan.
And the Paladine manage to survive, too. Liking it.
So, what happens to Mantor??