A blockade is an overtly aggressive action, though, and the Federation is not an overtly aggressive government (at least in an ideal world.)

As I said, though, that doesn't preclude them from throwing up so many economic barriers that it's basically impossible for the "non-aligned" world to interact with the Federation that surrounds it on all sides.

By michael john campbell (Michaelcampbell) on Wednesday, June 27, 2007 - 11:40 pm: Edit

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OK, Loren, then what do you do if you have a race that doesn't recognize the Federation's authority, for any number of possible reasons, and they don't want to toe the Federation line. For example, they want to colonize a planet in a nearby system, but the Feds have reserved it for someone else. Do you blow up the colony ships when they refuse to talk with the Feds?

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What if the race is so alien that communication is impossible? A race that is telepathic within it's own species, and the Fed telepath races cannot make contact?

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As Loren says star ships are expensive, in F&E terms an independent world cannot produce enough economic might to finance a "fleet" in anything under a generation. Let alone maintain it

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By Dale Lloyd Fields (Dylkha) on Thursday, June 28, 2007 - 12:43 am: Edit

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I suspect the Federation respects the law of "squatter's rights" which in a lot of ways is an outworking of the book of proverbs which warns against moving old boundary markers even if they're in the wrong place.

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By Terry O'Carroll (Terryoc) on Thursday, June 28, 2007 - 03:17 am: Edit

According to the background in Federation Commander, the Klingons had not formally claimed that space. The Federation saw itself as stabilising a potentially dangerous situation. The Klingons saw it otherwise.

As for the Kzintis, I don't know whether that space had been formally claimed or not. The Federation probably saw itself as freeing the oppressed Cygnans, and other races in that area enslaved by the Kzintis. (The cats EAT other intelligent beings, so I imagine that anti-Kzinti feeling may have run high in the Federation at the time.)

By Chris Bonaiuto (Epyon) on Thursday, June 28, 2007 - 03:04 pm: Edit

The way it sounded to me from Module Y, GDP, and the timeline on this site, the Federation's 4250 Declaration of Y102 was made because most of the problems they were having with the Klingons and Kzinti were because of the undifined borders. The Feds thought that a solidly defined border would solve those problems. The Klingons said they wanted the space, but haden't moved in to claim it. And even then, it took them 8 years to get mad enough about it to actually go to war. As far as a non-member in Fed space, I think the Feds would try to impress them with membership benefits, and if that dosen't work, they'd just leave the planet to its own devices so long as they didn't harm anyone else or interfere in Federation affairs. Eventually, I'd think most planets would see the benefits of membership and join. I think the best example is from "Errand of Mercy" when Kirk is negotiating with the Orgainians. He flatly says, "I'm a soldier, not a diplomat. I can only tell you the truth." Star Fleet is a military organization that also performs exploration, diplomacy, and humanitarian actions. They would sent regular line ships on diplomatic missions, meaning that the captains would have to have some training in negoitation. It would send a message that the Feds are peaceful, but that membership also has military advantages such as defense. It also sends the message that while that nice fancy cruiser in orbit could forcefully conquer your planet quite easily, we won't do that. You have the choice to join or not. Such as in "Mirror, Mirror" when the Halkan reminds Kirk that he could take the planets dilithium from the Halkans, and Kirk tells him that they won't do that.

By Loren Knight (Loren) on Thursday, June 28, 2007 - 09:32 pm: Edit

Of course to join you much meet certain levels of advancement. You much respect sentient rights and adhere to the laws. Enticements asside, joining the UFP is something that must be earned.

By Gary Plana (Garyplana) on Friday, June 29, 2007 - 11:59 am: Edit

Chris, I've always thought that the reason the Klingons didn't start a war over the Fed Y102 Declaration was that they were at war with the Tholians and had taken heavy losses attacking the Sphere, and part of their fleet was occupying Hydran Space.

Simply put, they were overextended militarily and had already begun planning for war against the Kzinti, in concert with their (relatively) new Lyran allies, which happened in Y103.

If the Lyrans had a border with the Federation, things might have gone very differently, but they didn't so the Klingons got dragged into a catfight, instead.

By Chris Bonaiuto (Epyon) on Friday, June 29, 2007 - 06:58 pm: Edit

Gary, D'OH! I forgot about that! The Klingons were fighting the Tholians, glaring across the border with the Kzinti, and smacking the Hydrans. Forgot about all that. Thanks for reminding me.

By John Sickels (Johnsickels) on Tuesday, July 24, 2007 - 05:11 pm: Edit

Trying to find the Brecon homeworld on the map....can't find it. Is it there? Does it have a different name other than "Brecon"? Am I just blind? Anyone help?

By Gary Plana (Garyplana) on Tuesday, July 24, 2007 - 07:08 pm: Edit

I have a handwritten note in my GPD3 master that the Brecon homeworld is in 3214.

Their homeworld was discovered by a GSC, no date given. GSCs have a YIS of Y140, so they are a relatively recent addition to the Federation but definitely pre-General War. Say Y145?

Associate Member. Homeworld is Class M with two moons. No names given for planet or star, so I guess you can make something up!

They were first introduced on page 89 of PD1's THE FEDERATION, and there is some material there that did not make it into GPD. Mostly it's irrelevant, but you might want to look at it, just in case.

And speaking of handwritten notes in my GPD3, Mantor is in 2215. You remember Mantor, don't you?

By John Sickels (Johnsickels) on Tuesday, July 24, 2007 - 07:56 pm: Edit

I had preliminarily decided to put the Brecon at 3204 pending approval of SVC, and established First Contact by the GSC USS Discovery in Y148. So it doesn't sound like I was far off.

By Gary Plana (Garyplana) on Tuesday, July 24, 2007 - 08:04 pm: Edit

Either sounds good to me.

By James Cain (Jcain) on Tuesday, August 07, 2007 - 02:41 pm: Edit

Gary:

"Star Fleet Universe Discussion Board: Prime Directive RPG: RPG FEDERATION: Federation Background: Archive through May 12, 2005

By John Sickels (Johnsickels) on Wednesday, May 11, 2005 - 06:09 pm: Edit

Ok, then let's say that Mantor is in 2006 but that the BATS is not in the Mantor system proper. Fine with me."

By James Cain (Jcain) on Tuesday, August 07, 2007 - 03:01 pm: Edit

I was looking back at the archives and I think that I saw a Federation associate member that may have been overlooked - the Skoleans. Even if they are being held over to be in the RPG Gorn book, they should be listed in the RPG Federation book with a hex # and perhaps also a very brief history of contact/planetary system description.


"Star Fleet Universe Discussion Board: Prime Directive RPG: RPG FEDERATION: Federation Background: Archive through May 11, 2005

By Gary Plana (Garyplana) on Wednesday, May 11, 2005 - 11:49 am: Edit

OK, the list of who is doing what for GF is:

Myself: Fralli, Cygnans, Mintakans (and probably all of the other existing races no one else wants to do)

Mark Costello: Mynieini

Mike West: Rigellians

John Sickels: Vulcans, Orions, Mantorese

Matthew Francois: Deians

Bishop: Andorians. I'm not sure who this is, would you please speak up and ID yourself?

Nick Blank: FedX deckplans

Don Willett: article(s) TBA -- like what, Don?

Missing Fed Academy templates (already done)

Map update for worlds left off the list: 2215 Mantor, 2910 Mintaka, and Brecon TBD.

Keep in mind that GF has a release date of August, so everyone should be done with their assignments by the end of June."

By James Cain (Jcain) on Tuesday, August 07, 2007 - 03:12 pm: Edit

A bit more information about Federation colonies in their respective NZ's might be nice, too.

Example: GRUPS Prime Directive (4th Ed.), page 163, "Adanerg: (1909) Class M Federation colony." and "Rita's World: (2114) Class M Federation colony." could each be expanded to a short paragraph.

By Gary Plana (Garyplana) on Tuesday, August 07, 2007 - 07:26 pm: Edit

First and foremost, that list of "who's doing what" for FEDS is way, way, way out of date. Current plan is that John Sickles is doing it all.

There was a reason we couldn't put Mantor in 2006. I don't remember the details but the staff discussed it in email. We settled on 2215, and the Steves didn't veto it.

The Skoleans will have entries in both GF and GG books. Places like Rita's World became part of the SFU because they were mentioned in SFB scenarios; they'll get a write-up, too.

Hope this answers your concerns?

By James Cain (Jcain) on Wednesday, August 08, 2007 - 01:46 pm: Edit

Gary,

Thanks for the reply, but I am still confused with the placement of Mantor in 2215. Allow me to cite:

CL#24, page 2: "The Mantor region was on the edge of the First Klingo-Kziniti War..."

CL#24, page 19: "Cygnus was in the same sector of space as Mantor..."

CL#31, page 25: "The B-57 was proposed by the Tinram Corporation of Mantor, a planet located near the Kziniti border and one of the Federation's newest members."

However, in contradiction to Mantor being in hex 2006, CL#24, pages 5, 8, and 18 all refer to the Federation 4th Fleet which is (according to F&E) "north of hex row xx05 inclusive."

I suggest Mantor be just a bit further north in hex 2005, rather than a _LONG_ ways south such as 2215.

By Gary Plana (Garyplana) on Wednesday, August 08, 2007 - 05:28 pm: Edit

I've been posting from work for the last several days; I just got up and looked at my big map, and 2215 is in Klingon territory. So yeah, 2215 is definitely wrong.

2005 is just inside Fed space next to the Fed-Kzin neutral zone in 19xx, which seems too far west. Cygnus and LTGG are in 2306, which would have been just inside the Kzinti border at their farthest excursion east before the Federation's Y102 Border Declaration.

John, you created the Mantorese, didn't you? Where do you think they should go?

By John Sickels (Johnsickels) on Wednesday, August 08, 2007 - 06:34 pm: Edit

I think it should be 2005.

By Gary Plana (Garyplana) on Thursday, August 09, 2007 - 12:46 pm: Edit

John: OK, well ... I think the reason I wanted them further east is that I think of that region in EY terms, and the Mantorese are much later than that.

Go ahead and put them in 2005 unless some guy named Steve says something.

By James Cain (Jcain) on Thursday, August 09, 2007 - 02:37 pm: Edit

Gary,

I don't have a problem with Mantor moving 1 hex east to 21xx nor I don't have a problem with them being in 2006 either if SVC says that the Fed 4th Fleet operated north of hex row xx06 inclusive at that point in history. In fact, we really _need_ him to say that to explain why Cygnus is in 2306 yet implied as being inside the 4th Fleet operating area of that time.

I only raised this whole issue because I could not see Mantor as far south as xx15.

By Gary Plana (Garyplana) on Friday, August 10, 2007 - 01:02 am: Edit

Cygnus is in 2306, and a starbase is in 2204; every F&E map ever printed has them there. I think it's safe to assume that 4th Fleet operates out of that starbase.

I don't know how you figured Mantor and Cygnus were outside 4th Fleet's operating area, but 2 hexes? The next closest starbase is Kzinti.

By James Cain (Jcain) on Friday, August 10, 2007 - 01:40 pm: Edit

Gary,

(702.0): ... "3rd Fleet: Set up within four hexes of the Klingon Neutral Zone, but not in 7th or 4th Fleet areas." ... "4th Fleet: Setup within three hexes of the Kziniti Neutral Zone and north of hex row xx05 inclusive."

As I understand this F&E OOB data, the 4th Fleet is north of hex row xx05 inclusive and the 3rd Fleet is south of hex row xx06 inclusive as of Y168. If so, then Cygnus is within the 3rd Fleet area rather than the 4th Fleet area.

I am simply suggesting that if 2006 is a problem for Mantor as you have indicated, that we solve that by moving it north into the Y168 4th Fleet operating area.

Alternatively, I am suggesting that SVC be asked to say that the 4th Fleet operated north of xx06 inclusive in Y135 to place Cygnus within the 4th Fleet operating area if 2006 is not a problem for Mantor.

By Andrew Marrington (Mazza) on Wednesday, December 26, 2007 - 10:36 am: Edit

The current discussion about the American Civil War in the Military History topic of General Discussions made me wonder whether the Federation in the SFU allows secession, and whether its constitution specifically says anything about it one way or another. Might be something interesting which could be part of the Federation sourcebook?

By Will McCammon (Djdood) on Wednesday, December 26, 2007 - 03:27 pm: Edit

Didn't the Orions try it during the GW (declaring neutrality)?