Archive through September 18, 2008
Star Fleet Universe Discussion Board: Prime Directive RPG: NEW GAME SYSTEMS:
Prime Directive 20 (PD20):
Archive through September 18, 2008
4.0 is heavily influenced by the draw of the MMORPGs (World of Warcraft, etc.). They've focused heavily on trying to ensure the gaming experience is equally fun at 1st level as 30th level and balanced across all classes (as opposed to the current symbiotic Fighter-Mage relationship that evolves over time) and have removed those classes and races deemed "uncool" (Gnomes, Druids) and added other "cool" ones (half-Demons, half-Dragons). They have also dummed down the overall rules somewhat, limiting the use of the system for non hack-n-slash use.
Many of us long time players are outright angerered by what they've done to the Forgotten Realms - advancing the timeline 100 years while removing 70% of the dieties and 90% of the powerful NPCs.
Loren: You aren't the only one who feels that way. (I don't know enough to feel one way or the other.) The consensus on the GPA list is that Hasbro just wants to "cash in on customer loyalty". But then, ADB did that (what, three times? four?) ourselves, although I like to think our new editions were genuinely needed and wanted.
SVC: YOu don't have to "think" that. It's a fact.
As you have recovered and grown your company you've taken the games to where you and your players had always wanted them to go. You NEVER changed anything for the sake of change.
I have little doubt that D20v2 needed the change to 3 and that 3.5 (so I've heard) fixed a lot of problems.
What sucks about these version changes is that support for previous versions stop. Granted, you did that with Doomsday but Captains edition was very well forewarned and anticipated. I had only a few Commander sets and used a friends for many years while I saved and waited for Captain's edition. When THAT came out I bought everything.
And even with that great investment I was pleased to no end to get the MRB. The MRB didn't make anything obsolete except, to a degree, the errata file; which can only be seen as a good thing.
I never saw you as cashing in on customer loyalty. I saw it as the saying goes, "Being a river to your people."
I just hope new counters for earlier sets and modules will be not too far up river. I love the new ones. I'll check my lotto ticket and get back to ya. 
Well, considering how long 'Captain's Edition' has lasted compared to the whole of SFB history, I would say that our esteemed designers have done us a favor in not cashing in like how it appears is happening with D&D.
Of course, I have bought ever edition of Shadowrun so far, so I can be as bad as that myself.
Quick question (and yes, I have asked this on WotC message boards, and have not gotten any answer there): Does anyone know what happens to the d20 3.0/3.5 SRD after the shift to 4.0?
I realize that it (meaning the license and the SRD itself) will not go away, but consider: the d20 STL states:
No Covered Product may contain rules or instructions of any kind that:
* Describe a process for Creating a Character
* Describe a process for Applying the Effects of Experience to a Character
Addiionally, there is the requirement for including the phrase "Requires the use of the Dungeons & Dragons Player's Handbook, Third Edition, published by Wizards of the Coast, Inc." (or any of the variations on this presented in the d20 Guide).
So... once the 3.5 rules are no longer published, once the game has moved on to v4 -- how do you continue to publish a game that has no core support; how do you publish a game that has people unable to get the core books needed to play?
Would ADB consider doing an OGL version sans the d20 STL that included all of those things that would be missing once the core books are no longer available?
David: I don't want to give an imprecise answer, and most of the d20 OGL and SRD and STL and all that stuff is a mystery to me personally.
My understanding is that for the next year or two, there are going to be plenty of V3.5 rulebooks in stores and internet stores. After that, we have another solution available.
Gotcha.
It might be a mystery, but it does sound as though you have already thought about this and have a solution. Thus -- I'm good.
Well, somebody did. I don't have to do all the thinking.
This cartoon says it all: http://ars.userfriendly.org/cartoons/?id=20080429
I'm sure this has been thought about already, but I was just wondering whether d20 Prime Directive products still carry the d20 logo now that the old d20 license has been withdrawn, and how long that will be able to continue for? I mention this because it might affect printing for covers for d20 Modern Prime Directive too.
At least with PDF d20 products the d20 System logo seems to have disappeared over the past month, replaced with similar, non-Wizards logos which are pretty unambiguous for most gamers.
I am not worried about it. There are plenty of D20 logo products "in the system" (in the wholesaler warehouses, on the retailer shelves). Future covers we print will have a special logo of our own devising. When it becomes necessary to change existing products, we will just put a logo sticker over that.
I knew I was worrying for nothing - of course ADB had a plan!
We run on positive control. By all means, if you're worried, check! Check as many times as you want.
I get annoyed when some people (not you) use the old "tell me to do what I'm already doing so it looks like they're smarter than me" trick, but I don't mind one bit if somebody checks to make sure we did not screw up!
today I picked up 3 PD d20 books for five bucks each. Meanwhile I heard at another game store that Gurps 4e is being subordinated to munchkin.
Personally I think that d20 is the rpg with the mileage.
Am I right or wrong about this
From what I've heard, Munchkin is about 75 to 80 percent of SJG's sales right now. If true (and I have no reason to doubt my source) and I were Steve Jackson - everything would be subordinate to Munchkin.
This doesn't mean that GURPS 4e is going away, but I agree with you on D20 having legs. I'm sure more people play the various D20 rulesets than play GURPS. In my area, that is a definite fact. You can purchase D20 games at several video / hobby / book stores in this area. Only one location (and it's a 32 mile trip - one way) carries GURPS materials, and he only stocks the core rule books, beyond that it's a special order.
That's the reason I'm helping (as much as possible) to get the PD20 Modern rulebook out the door by the 9/22 deadline.
p.s. - Where did you manage to score all 3 books for $5 each?
I have them all, but there are a few others in our group that might like to pick up copies if the same deal can be found locally (or through the mil).
More people play gurps-mod/scifi than play d20-mod/scifi. But we're doing both.
It d20 PD d20 Kligons, and d20 Roms. I got them at Ravenstone games on Karl Court here in Columbus. I think they were priced to sell.
BTW I wanted to let Steve Cole that both of the game shops I know of here in Columbus area seem to be stocking and selling more FC than SFB with F&E nowhere in sight.
As for d20 having more mileage than GURPS, people can get pretty irrational IMO arguing about which RPG system is better (I say it's a matter of taste)... But I think with Wizards moving away from the d20 System to D&D 4e, d20's future is less certain than GURPS, which will be around in one form or another as long as SJG is. That said, I think all the OGL publishers will keep d20 alive in its various evolutions, and rightfully so too.
Personally, I play both systems, but my group and I prefer GURPS for modern or sci fi settings. d20 Modern is a very nice system, and I plan on picking up PD d20 Modern in case I have a group of d20 Star Wars RPG players or something who want to give Prime Directive a whirl.
I think that the system you know is probably the best.
I am very interested in PD20 Modern, though. If mainly for the hard work Jean and crew are putting into it. She and the PD20M staff have been working on generating a very clean and precisely assembled book.
I enjoy both systems, but I prefer GURPS mainly because d20 is too limited by its mechanics. I think d20 works real well in doing games where there's a lot of Hollywood physics involved.
I own PD20 along with GURPS PD and I plan on buying the Modern version as well.
I think people will like PD20M very much. We are working hard at producing a solid game and we are adding tidbits of information (both John Sickels who is writing Federation and Loren Knight who is writing Tholians have provided some details for PD20M).
We did not use this descriptive line, however: "low-down, dirty-rotten, methane-breathing, trashcan-looking Hydrans".
huh, that's funny... it shows up in my copy. how'd that happen? 
Did you order it direct from ADB?
I so SVC put it into your copy.
Just to bug you.
Actually, the print on demand system adds a few minor "throwaway" lines to each copy, and tracks what lines were in the copies sold to each customer, so if we see a scanned copy on line we would know who scanned and uploaded it, allowing us to target legal action against the miscreants.