SVC, sorry to continue the Fuel/engine discussion with this above post. I started writing the message when it wasn't a diversion. It was meant as an example only and not to challenge anything you've posted. Thanks.

By Jean Sexton (Jsexton) on Friday, June 15, 2012 - 09:20 pm: Edit

Robert, we have settled on restroom, I think. It makes it easier for some of the non-naval folks to understand without going into definitions in the text. We are going to strive for consistency because it makes me happy.

By Shawn Hantke (Shantke) on Friday, June 15, 2012 - 11:00 pm: Edit

Are these going to be a reference scale on a book page like most of the previous ADB plans? Will they have a square grid with each square representing 1.5 x 1.5 meters? will you do a different size square grid for the D20 crowd? How about a hex grid for the GURPS fans?

By Steve Cole (Stevecole) on Saturday, June 16, 2012 - 12:00 am: Edit

Consistency: I am not anal about it, and at least so far, the fact that all plans were done by people who just sat down and did them (each to his own style) made consistency impossible. I'm just not worried abut it, but sure, restroom if Jean wants.

I think lines for walls are just fine. They can be thicker in high pressure areas.

We use replicators and matter transformers. See the technology article in any of the core RPG books.

I already said "no server rooms" and I'm good with that. I don't know why it came up again.

Actually, in TOS they are ramscoops, that was defined in the ancient deck plans long before TNG was a glimmer in somebody's eye. Ramscoops are not TNG, but TOS.

I've never seen anyone say dilithium is a fuel. it's used to react the matter-anti-matter streams.

A warp engine is a warp engine. Form follows function.

I'm going to do deck plans for the book in reference scale (two decks per page) with no grids. We may or may not overlay them with grids in gamable sizes later.

By Randall Pick (Tremor3258) on Saturday, June 16, 2012 - 12:53 am: Edit

I don't see it mentioned on the list but environmental/life support/air processing/recycling would probably be included

By Xander Fulton (Dderidex) on Saturday, June 16, 2012 - 01:11 am: Edit

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Quote:

I've never seen anyone say dilithium is a fuel. it's used to react the matter-anti-matter streams

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By Gary Plana (Garyplana) on Saturday, June 16, 2012 - 01:52 am: Edit

SVC, at this point I'll repeat a suggestion I first made to you 10+ years ago and have used myself any number of times:

Print a clear plastic sheet with a square grid pattern *or* Hex grid pattern appropriate to the game system's tactical combat system -- scaled so you could put the deckplan on the table and lay the plastic sheet over it, so you could conduct combat accurately and use the same deckplan with ANY game system without having to print different versions on paper with grid/hex patterns on them.

That way you just need to stock one plastic overlay sheet for each game system, and use one generic set of deckplans without having to customize them for each game system.

By Terry O'Carroll (Terryoc) on Saturday, June 16, 2012 - 02:22 am: Edit

deleted by author, off topic

By Tom Vallejos (Gurps_Gm) on Saturday, June 16, 2012 - 04:12 am: Edit

I agree with Gary. For the three years or so I have been using a hexgrid overlay on an enlargement of Burke-class frigate bridge. It has worked fine.

By Randy Blair (Randyblair) on Saturday, June 16, 2012 - 01:02 pm: Edit

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Quote:

I already said "no server rooms" and I'm good with that. I don't know why it came up again.

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By Carl Herzog (Carlzog) on Saturday, June 16, 2012 - 01:29 pm: Edit

I'm not clear from this discussion what the criteria is for including or excluding specific features. It's my understanding this project is being driven by the conversion of PD to Traveller, but so far in this discussion I have not seen much mention of role-playing utility in justifying particular features.

Starship deckplan details that are significant to me as a GM are the places that serve as dramatic settings for conflict with foes and the features whose positions are tactically relevant to the unfolding story.

With that in mind, I would dismiss with too much concern over fuel tank details, for example. Characters never climb into fuel tanks.

Conduit runs, on the other hand, provide a 'secret' passageway for characters to sneak through, and a dramatic environment for saving the day through tech. Saving the day via the last-minute manipulation of something in a Jeffries tube is an iconic TOS scene and a broader dramatic trope that fits in any game.

Endless corridors of staterooms, conference rooms and heads need minimal detail. As a GM that's not something that's going to be tactically significant most of the time. I'll simply narrate most of the events in those settings. And frankly, nobody ever pees in RPGs.

The specific layout of the engine room by comparison is super important. Think of how many great melee combats occurred in the engineering space of TOS. Taking cover around equipment, ambushing foes around a blind corner, etc.

Transporters, airlocks, turbolifts -- anything that is an entry point for the enemy, that can get you somewhere quickly in an emergency, but that you could also be trapped in, is a significant dramatic feature. Their locations matter, especially in relation to other significant locales like the bridge, shuttle bay, etc.

Steve said "no server rooms", which may be fine as long as some locale(s) representing computer centers are shown. Getting to the 'mainframe' in order to take control of the ship via its computers is another classic sci-fi trope that can easily facilitated by a good deckplan. Think about Obi Wan out on the catwalk to shut down the Death Star force field, or Dave climbing in the computer to shut down Hal.

In trying to figure out what to include, these are just a few examples of the criteria I'd be looking for in choosing features to focus on. If this is truly a product to sell for RPG use, narrative function will occasionally trump technical 'accuracy'.

My two cents,
Carl

By Will McCammon (Djdood) on Saturday, June 16, 2012 - 01:40 pm: Edit

"Server rooms"; just call them computing support compartments or secondary computer rooms and I think a lot of the resistance might fade. I'd believe an SFU starship would have spaces devoted to auxiliary/supporting computing equipment.

I'd advise anyone wanting to really add to the process here to go and study some of the existing deck plans (in particular Nick's excellent Fed frigate and Romulan SkyHawk plans). They set the bar, the tone, and the style, in my opinion.

By Randy Blair (Randyblair) on Saturday, June 16, 2012 - 01:54 pm: Edit

Will, where are those plans?

By Will McCammon (Djdood) on Saturday, June 16, 2012 - 01:55 pm: Edit

Various existing PD products and Captains Log issues.

[from the index of Captain's Log]
Datafile, Deck plans, Federation Express: CL29
Datafile, Deck Plans, Federation Frigate: CL27
Datafile, Deck Plans, Klingon G1 gunboat: CL27
Datafile, Deck Plans, Skyhawk, CL31
Datafile, Deck Plans, Tholian PC and DD: CL33

The Fed frigate plans are included in a larger size in PD Federation, the SkyHawk in PD Romulans, and the G1 Gunboat in PD Klingons. Presumably, the Tholian ships will be in PD Tholians.

There are also plans for the Prime Trader in the core PD books.

The G1 plans are also available in an even larger size as a separate product.

There were plans done for the small freighter for the original version of PD, but I've never seen them and don't know what product they are in.

By Shawn Hantke (Shantke) on Saturday, June 16, 2012 - 02:30 pm: Edit

A problem I see with the clear plastic overlay is to make everyone happy you would have to print four different ones. (The downside with porting the game to many systems) 1/2 inch squares, 1 inch squares, 1 1/2 inch squares and 1 inch hexes. I like the idea of the plastic overlay but there would also be the problem of how big to make the plastic sheet. The plans wouldn't all be the same size and everybody has different size tables.

By Steve Cole (Stevecole) on Saturday, June 16, 2012 - 02:42 pm: Edit

The upside of plastic overlays is we can ignore it and let everyone print what they want for themselves.

By Terry O'Carroll (Terryoc) on Saturday, June 16, 2012 - 03:41 pm: Edit

Prime Adventures 1 had partial deck plans for the Satchel Paige, a passenger liner. I think the small freighter plans Will refers to came with the adventure that was part of the GM's screen, but not sure.

By Gary Carney (Nerroth) on Saturday, June 16, 2012 - 04:26 pm: Edit

I suppose the kind of thing I'd be thinking of at this point would be more specific to certain ships than a general guideline; but when it comes to hulls which have seen use in a number of different guises, I would hope that enough room is left in the base plans to allow for known conversions to take place.

For example, if we ever get deck plans for the Orion CR, I would ask if the lone port battery could be placed in a location where swapping it out for the Throne's tachyon missile launcher would be feasible.


In the longer run, I would be interested to see what some of the more alien, or exotic, ship interiors might look like. I would imagine deck plans for an Andromedan Conquistador to look quite bizarre to human or Klingon eyes; to say nothing of some of the more diverse ship types (such as the hollow insides of Alunda space-whales, or the bio-engineered "hull" segments grafted onto the back scales of Branthodon dragonships).

Plus there could be questions as to how species with maintain microgravity environments in their ships (such as the Jindarians or Uthiki); or ones which are noted in their respective R-sections as haing unorthodox setups (such as the Baduvai with their relatively low degree of compartmentalization, or the Jumokians' use of rungs and bars used to allow the brachiating retiles to move throughtout their vessels at speed).


Of course, the odds of getting so far as to explore such ideas are not overly high; but it would be nice if at least one new ship could be shown to do things differently from the rest.

By Will McCammon (Djdood) on Saturday, June 16, 2012 - 04:43 pm: Edit

[Drink]

I think simple weapon-swap variants can best be handled by gamemasters themselves. However, Nick did show some of the variants of the Fed FF on his plans. They were neat to have but the utility of those to RPG'ers is not something I can comment on.

By Randy Blair (Randyblair) on Saturday, June 16, 2012 - 06:35 pm: Edit

Jindo ships would, according to the source material, be different from ship to ship within the same class. Therefore, maybe a geomorph (I think that's what it's called) design might be in order, such that pieces of the map can be arranged differently to create a unique experience.

By Tom Vallejos (Gurps_Gm) on Saturday, June 16, 2012 - 08:36 pm: Edit

Instead of publishing deck plans in hard copy modules, like the G-1 gunboat how about in scalable PDFs? That way the user can configure it to the scale he wants and print out the result himself or through a company like FedEx office.

My wife is an architect and my best friend is a civil engineer. Both have used scalable pdfs in there work.

By Steve Cole (Stevecole) on Saturday, June 16, 2012 - 11:21 pm: Edit

We do not sell enough copies of PDF files to be worth paying artists to do deck plans.

By Randy Blair (Randyblair) on Sunday, June 17, 2012 - 03:21 am: Edit

For Kzinti (and perhaps Lyran as well) ships:
A *relatively* large area for stalking/hunting of animals/prisoners. Perhaps with some sort of holographic technology to give it the appearance of being larger. It doesn't have to be TNG holodeck grade technology (although there's no reason why it couldn't be, actually).

By Loren Knight (Loren) on Sunday, June 17, 2012 - 10:35 am: Edit

I'd think one of the larger chambers on a Kzinti ship would be the grooming shop!

And thoughout the ship little doors about five feet high big enough to fit your head into for hairball extracation. [HBE]

Cat-Who-Fights-While-Hacking-Hairballs

By Randy Blair (Randyblair) on Sunday, June 17, 2012 - 12:04 pm: Edit

Just out of curiosity, are there any SFU fiction pieces or SFU canon material which demonstrates a felinoid race self grooming? Because if they do self-groom, then hairballs probably do exist. Would that extraction be a function of sick bay, or maybe there's a pill for that?
I guess if they don't self-groom, then maybe a grooming shop or station might be in order.
It kinda brings up an intriguing concept, though, because alien races probably *do* have different hygiene and excretory requirements.

Tholian commander: Kristene! Nice waste crystal on your torso! Didn't you WIPE?