Archive through July 26, 2012
Star Fleet Universe Discussion Board: Prime Directive RPG: DECK PLANS PROJECTS:
Deck Plan Protocols & Checklist:
Archive of prior discussions:
Archive through July 26, 2012
Well, nothing says the litter has to lay flat. In fact, every time I've seen patients loaded into an ambluance, they had their head raised.
I just allocated space for Sickbay (12.0 x 12.25 meters), and as it's directly below Transporter Room #2, I think I'll put a lift from one to the other. That will solve part of the problem.
But seriously, there's no way at this point for me to change the size of the Turbo-Lifts without blanking out the entire interior I have laid out thus far.
Garth L. Getgen
Gary -
Actually, I am a 23 year aerospace design employee, nearly all spent on civilian airliners.
There is no FAA "rule" on minimum seat spacing, except at exit rows.
Airliners are usually provisioned to allow the seats to install at basically any spacing. Spacing ("seat pitch") is set by the airline, unfortunately driven by what the market will bear. They cram in as many seats as the majority of the demographics can tolerate without excessive complaint. More seats per plane spreads the fuel-costs over more paying passengers.
We also design things like the height of seat pans, stowage bin handle height from floor, etc., to meet the physiology of middle of the demographic, with reasonable usability out to set boundaries at the lower and upper percentiles.
The Navy example was a guess on my part. I'm neither a Navy veteran, nor a naval architect. But I do spend a whole lot of my time fitting the minimum amount of machine comfortably around people.
I should note that there is an FAA reg about seat pitch minimums, but it is strictly about passenger egress in an emergency, nothing to do with comfort.
I took the liberty of updating SVC’s checklist to consolidate comments from this thread.
DECK PLANS PROTOCOL LIST, DRAFT 1a
THINGS ON THE SSD:
Heavy Weapons (Photons / Disruptors / etc)
Phasers
Drone rack
Command & Control centers (Main Bridge / AuxCon / Emergency Bridge)
Warp Drive Engines
Impulse Engines
Auxiliary Power Reactor (APR/AWR)
Batteries
Transporter rooms
Tractor Beam emitters
Laboratories
Shuttle Bay
Probe Launcher
Cargo Bay (figure about 100 square meters floor space / 500 cubic meters volume per SSD box, half that for Orion ships)
THINGS NOT ON THE SSD REQUIRED BY RULES:
Air Lock / Docking Ports (usually four to six)
Turbo-Lift system with vertical and horizontal shafts
Sensors & Scanners
Spare Shuttle-craft
Landing space for VIP’s Shuttle-craft
T-Bombs
Extra Drones for reloading drone rack
THINGS NOT ON SSD THAT SHOULD BE ON DECK PLANS:
Crew Quarters / Officer Staterooms / Marine Barracks
Corridors
Staircases (usually spiral stairwells)
Ladders
Mess Deck (Chow Hall / Dining Facility)
Officer’s Wardroom
Galley (Kitchen) or Automatic Food Processing Center
Food storage (including emergency rations)
Sickbay / Medical Center: Exam/treatment room, Trauma Center, Surgery, Recovery, Intensive Care
Dental Exam room
Medical supply storage
Pharmacy
Morgue
Weapon Control Rooms: Phasers require two crewmen each, Heavy Weapons require three to five.
Main Computer Core (Ship's Library Computer)
Engineering (or Secondary) Computer Core
Computer Control Stations (KVM room)
Sub-Space Radio Equipment
Log Buoy
Main Engineering Control Center
Engineering Sub-Systems: Dilithium chamber, Power Converters, Circuit breaker panels, etc.
Maneuvering / Reaction Thrusters
Fuel Storage (Deuterium Slush Tank)
Fabrication / Machine Shop (or Replicator Systems)
Tool and spare parts lockers
Heating/Ventilation/Air-Conditioning (HVAC) systems
Air Purification and Recycling Scrubbers (remove CO2, release O2, filter out dust)
Emergency Air Supply Tanks
Water Tanks (both fresh and grey-water)
Water Recycling Systems
Waste Processing & Storage Systems
Vertical Shafts (for HVAC / plumbing / power conduits)
Offices: Captain, First Officer, Doctor, Department Heads, Yeomen (Admin), Chief of the Boat
Conference Rooms
Theater / Chapel
Recreation Rooms
Observation Room
Public Restrooms / Lavatories (Latrine / Head)
Laundry & Linen Exchange
Barber Shop
Gymnasium
Locker rooms with showers
Mustering and Staging Area (near Transporters and/or Shuttle Bay)
Storage Rooms for Cargo --- these spaces are too small to be Cargo Bay on SSD
Service Elevators / Cargo Lifts (to move cargo up/down one deck)
Forklifts
Cargo Transporters
Emergency Evacuation Transporters
Life Boats / Life-pods
Brig / Holding Cells
Evidence Locker
Armory / Small Arms & Small Equipment Locker (for Hand Phasers, Tricorders, PADDs, etc)
Landing Legs and Ramps to ground level (for ships that can land on planets)
THINGS THAT MAY OR MAY NOT BE ON A SHIP:
Bowling Ally
Swimming Pool
Shooting Range
Arboretum
Dolphin Tanks
Crawl space between decks (usually NOT found on SFU ships)
Stellar Cartography / Astrometrics Map Room
Astro-Navigation Observing Ports (for manually "shooting the stars" to plot ship's location)
Solar Sail
THINGS THAT DO NOT NEED TO BE DEPICTED ON DECK PLANS:
Intruder Detection Systems
Deflector Shield Generators (these are part of the hull)
Ventilation / Plumbing duct work (save for primary vertical shafts noted above)
And, yes, I did add a few extra items I thought of while composing the list. ;-)
Garth L. Geten
Does anybody have anything to add to the above list?
Garth L. Getgen
"Laundry and Linen Exchange," I take it covers both the large washing (or fabricating) machines that run with bulk efficiency, and a storeroom to accumulate the machine output and disperse it to the crew. Should there be a small tailor area to take in/let out seams and add rank stripes as needed? On Federation ships, it can be folded into the department that makes native costumes the Prime Directive might require of landing parties.
A small personal laundry (a machine per hundred crew) to allow a fella to get a clean uniforn if needed before the exchange cycle, or take care of civvies.
I don't own one (and have no plans to ever buy one), but can anyone tell us whether or not Star Fleet uniforms are dry-clean only???
Garth L. Getgen
Garth, not a new item but looking for clarification:
"Crawl space between decks (usually NOT found on SFU ships)"
Would this be the socalled "Jeffries Tube" that has been used so very often on various episodes?
(I know Scotty spent much of his screen time in such places).
Garth, PD doesn't state whether Star Fleet uniforms are dry-clean only, but it states that they "repel water, dirt, and grime, and dry in 1/5th the normal time" so it's probably safe to assume that they are also machine washable - and don't need much dryer time either ;)
Jack: "A small personal laundry (a machine per hundred crew)" ... for experience being deployed, it's more like one washer and two dryers per 25 - 40 personel.
Jeff, I had always assumed the Jeffries Tube was the access to the Warp nacells. In ST:STG & beyond, they called any crawl space a Jeffries Tube. But SVC is the one that said you don't need crawl space between decks. That's not a hard-&-fast rule, of course. Sometimes it makes sense; for example, I have a crawl space under the shuttle bay.
Garth L. Gettgen
I agree that the warp nacelle access is the "Jefferies Tube"... although it did seem strange that its access was in a random hallway and not in an engineering space (on the TV show anyway).
Do Klinon ships have a Kefferies Pit? (you know, the engines angle down.)
(edit to above post: "ST:STG" s/b "ST:TNG" ... wish my brain and fingers would stay connected)
My wife just added an item to the list: Ship's Store where the crew can buy / be issued personal items such as soap, toothbrush, shampoo, T-paper, socks, underwear, uniform items, etc.
Garth L. Getgen
I wouldn't expect to see crew laundry or toiletries store facilities on a ship with transtator and automated fabrication technologies. It's for the same reasons they don't have racks and racks of Chef Boyardee in the galley stowage lockers.
Don't apply modern shipboard concepts/proprties too strongly. Give a re-look to the original FJS blueprints.
Lots of space is devoted to raw materials and fabrication of "expendables" like food, shampoo, and uniforms. Once used, the materials are broken down, reprocessed, and then re-used. A starship is very much a closed-loop environment. Waste of materials must be minimized.
The oxygen that is a chemical component of a crewman's shampoo one morning could very well be part of the gaseous oxygen he breathes later that same day, after it went down the shower drain and was reprocessed into it's constituent raw materials and re-used.
I could see a small laundry facility for tending to the crew's personal items (civvie clothes) that they do not want broken-down for sentimental reasons, but that would be very limited (and treated as an amenity/recreation facility, I would think).
Duty wear would be recycled, just like almost every structurally simple items that can be recycled without expensive and energy-intensive molecular-level transporter/replicator technology.
The only things that would be stored in any kind of quantity is raw materials and items too complex or exotic to have re-fabricated (electronics, etc., and maybe not even some of the simpler of them).
A phaser pistol or communicator would probably be stored (due to their exotic transtators, power cells, and electronics). A hairbrush or toothpaste wouldn't. Spare bus bars made of exotic metal alloy for the ship's power grid mains would be stored. A basic circuit breaker for a branch circuit would probably be fabricated on-demand.
There are fanion blueprints that show Jeffries Tubes servicing places other than just the warp nacelles. The tv show used them as the catch-all access to the "working-bits" areas (transporter power, etc.).
Some of those prints showed the tubes running both vertically and horizontally (which was later picked up by the movies and TNG-era tv shows, Scotty's "jail break" in ST:V, Picard's flute practice on TNG, etc.).
They are basically the accessible portions of the piping/wiring/HVAC spaces. Most of that stuff is in the inter-deck space allowance for deck height, but the shows (and not necessarily the SFU) stick at least some of it in Jeffries Tubes.
I picture the "store" more as a "buffer." Rather than running off just 10 ounces of shampoo when a crewman asks for it, hundreds of ounces are made in one go and stored. Or a deck of cards is sitting there so someone doesn't have to wait those endless seconds while one prints out.
Aren't uniforms somehow alive? What was that workaround in the animated series when they used a ray to shrink the crew but not the ship and kept them clothed? Since then, I've imagined the clothes "absorbing" dirt and sweat.
Will, the way I see it is the ship will need a similar amount of space whether it's for storage of hard items or for storage for raw materials or for replicator equipment to make items out of nothing.
I had spare space that could not easily be used for anything else, so I made it the food locker with enough "racks and racks of Chef Boyardee" to feed a crew of 100 for a 90-120 day patrol. If you wish, you can look at it as storage for "goo" that the food processors (which are in the space now denoted as the kitchen/galley) turn into something the looks/smells/feels/tastes like a turkey dinner for Thanksgiving.
Likewise, I feel that we either need a laundry and a new uniform store, or we need about the same amount of deck space dedicated to equipment and raw material to recycle dirty/worn-out uniforms into brand new ones.
I think there's too much ST:TNG influence in TOS-era fan-fic. Remember that in the first season of 1701-E, the holo-deck and replicator technology were still in their infancy. You can put them on your ships, but I'll leave them out of mine. But thanks for reminding me to add them to the list above under "THINGS THAT MAY OR MAY NOT BE ON A SHIP".
Garth L. Getgen
SFU canon differs from ST canon in that use of replicators is very energy hungry and can't be used for complex items because of "transcription errors". Making something by replicator is almost always far more expensive than making it in other ways. Large ships will have replicators for those times that you really need something and cost be d*mned, but the POL is probably too small to have extensive replicator facilities. (They might recycle water, but its probably not hard to steam-distill waste water when you have megawatts of warp engines available.)
Jack, SFU uniforms are not "alive" but are advanced material made from monocrys armour, giving them all kinds of nifty properties. They don't absorb sweat but allow it to pass to the exterior where it will evaporate.
Note that I said re-processed, not replicated.
I'm fully aware of the energy-costs associated with replicator/transporters.
The point with the original Franz Joesph concepts is that the raw material stocks are used for everything and also use the same fabrication machinery. There is no dedicated "food goo" stock, or "hairbrush stock". The reprocessors bust items or waste down to pure raw material chemicals, without resorting to the energy costs a transtator-driven replicator or transporter would use to convert the actual molecules into something it wasn't.
The same set of assembly/fabrication machinery could be spitting out a circuit breaker one minute and a new set of gym skivvies the next. We do this with 3D printing, right now.
If we are going to take cues from tv, I'll note that in the original series, coffee and chicken soup was (presumably replicated and) magically available almost instantly in the transporter room. That may be something that the SFU has declared apocryphal, like stunning an entire city of gangsters from orbit. I don't know.
Regardless, this is all just discussion and I'm not trying to tell Garth what he has to do with his ship. I'm just stating my take on how ships work in the SFU. The only one who could say how they *really* do is SVC.
Garth,
Going back to your question, "Does anybody have anything to add to the above list?"
What about race specific items that might be different from standard Federation practice/doctrine?
(Romulan Maulers, Hydran fighter launch tubes, Klingon Staisis Field Generators, Kzinti live stock pens for storing food until needed, Lyran ESG (expanding Sphere Generators), ISC PPD, Romulan and Orion Cloaking Device(s) etc...)
Perhaps a new catagory of things found only on (in?!?) the ships of specified races?
that, or you have to develop a list of exceptions for certain races such as Tholian and Hydran to replace those items found on other races ships (such as Federation or Klingon for example) that wouldnt be present on high thermal races or methane breathing races ships... such as oxygen tanks, or water recycling facilities etc.
I mean, does a Tholian Dreadnought require a barber shop?
Tholians do groom but a humanoid wouldn't like to tools used.
Facet edges tend to wear rounded, but young have sharp facets edges. Staying sharp is stylish.
But then, there is a cetain look of wisdom that goes with a certain weathered look. There is a difference between unkemped and senior (seniors are respected).
A lot of that stuff falls under THINGS ON SSD list already.
Garth L. Getgen
Quote:Note that I said re-processed, not replicated.
A distinction without a difference, surely?
Uniforms?
THey are disposable, especially the red ones...
Terry, a re-processor takes raw material and makes whatever you want out of it. A replicator uses E=MC^2 to covert energy to matter.
Mike: LOL!!!!
Garth L. Getgen
Yes. As Garth noted, replicators and transporters use transtator technology and massive amounts of energy to reformat matter at the atomic level. Truly the end-goal of the medieval alchemists (lead into gold, people into energy into people, water into phasers, etc.).
Reprocessors work at a much less refined level (and with a much, much smaller energy input) to break up matter at the chemical/molecular level and build new things with the raw stocks. We have most of the technologies needed for this now, just nowhere near as compact, refined, and reliable.