Archive through September 01, 2012
Star Fleet Universe Discussion Board: Prime Directive RPG: DECK PLANS PROJECTS:
Deck Plan Protocols & Checklist:
Archive through September 01, 2012
Modern day ships and aircraft have dozens of computers, each one serving a different function, so IMHO the future will continue as distributed processors networked together.
There is also a certain amount of "separation of church and state" as it were- some of the computer infrastructure is physically distinct from other bits and not connected (rather like the Galatica on BSG, come to think of it and for similar reasons). It is easier to have data with different classification levels on physically separated networks and hardware.
Yes, a distributed system seems most safe on a starship. If there was one main computer location then it should have a box on the SSD. As it is I'd suggest there are perhaps large nodes at each control system (bridge, emergency bridge etc) but that there are also systems in weapons and such and that every system has some crossover capability. There would be big nodes as part of each engine too. Library computers would be built into Lab except for Orion where that system is built into the bridge node.
Ships take damage and cannot affort to centralize critical systems, IMO.
Loren, that doesn't fit the existing data. All deck plans to date have a main computer room. I know your way makes sense, but we're long past that now. At least for Federation ships ... maybe Orion or ISC or whoever does it your way.
Garth L. Getgen
I have to wonder if you guys are on the right track with the discussion about computer systems (server farms, main frames etc...)
just looking at the raw data (TOS, Franz Joseph Tech manual etc) it appears that the biggest volume of space would be the total number of crewman/officer computer interface nodes.
think about how many work stations have a panel/readout/display component with either a chair or a standing height display where personnel could interact with the computer systems.
heck, the bridge alone (on the constitution class CA) had atleast 7 interfaces, plus each officer (including the captain) seemed to have a computer terminal/workstation in their quarters (those that we saw on TOS), as well as various workstations at each crewmans duty station.
Is it possible that there were additional workstations in the crew quarters? how about the mess halL? would the brig have a workstation for the sargent at arms/watch officer?
I have to wonder just how many actual computer interface/workstations there might be on any given starfleet vessel. if you add up the average deck space attributable to each designated computer work station, you might be surprised at how much of a ships volume is devoted to letting the crew actually interface with the computer systems.
maybe the Borg were on to something! 
Jeff, you're off track on my fronts.
A computer work station in 2012 doesn't necessarily look anything like one in 2500.
Most crewmen who need to interface do so at their work stations, not at desks.
Go look at the existing deck plans. Whatever is going on, those deck plans are the result. Your way of thinking leads to a different result, therefore, your way of thinking is just wrong and there are things you don't understand. Quit overthinking.
Trek computers have big central cores as they are optical computers with low level warp fields around them to make the optical signals inside travel faster than light. If you put all your servers in one spot you only need to generate one warp field for them.
Of course this comes from the Next Gen tech manual so...
Jeff, yes, if you took all the workstations and put them in one room, they would probably take up more space than the master computer / server farm does. But they're scattered all over the ship, and individually each workstation is so small they only show up on what Steve called a Level One set of deck plans. They would be the all-in-one computer/monitor combinations on desks and the built-in systems in duty station consoles.
The problem is not so much with raw computer power, but rather with data storage. This is, has been, and always will be the biggest part, volume-wise, of a computer system / network. If the TV show is to be believed, the Enterprise data-bank held enough data to fill the Library of Congress a hundred times over.
Garth L. Getgen
Nick, if you haven't done so today, please check your e-mail. SVC sent us something.
Garth L. Getgen
I've always thought that SFU computers were super parallel processing (thousands of semetric cores) with advanced predictive algorithms.
Joel built this for you guys....
http://www.starfleetgames.com/deckplanresources.shtml
I don't know if that's going to be a working link or not (this computer stuff confuses me) but you can cut/paste to get there and Joel can add the real link in a minute.
Hey, it worked.
Something we need is a quick-reference table. A cruiser needs this many total square meters of deck space. A bridge is 6x6 meters. A kitchen for a crew of 400 needs this much space. And so forth.
We could almost get to a point where each artist has graphic modules for common compartments and just drops them in.
Is there a list of what ships are works in progress?
Well, I'm working on the Federation police cutter. It's going to be a chore to get it out of my program and into a file format that SVC's Freehand version 8 can import.
Garth L. Getgen
To be honest, that's why I tracked down an old copy of FreeHand for all my 2D graphics work. I knew it would make life simpler for handing off files to ADB, if/when the time came.
It ended up being the platform that all of my comments drawings for Starline 2500 were done on, Tenneshington Decals' graphics, etc.
If SVC ever needed them, it should be fairly clean to back-save them to FH8 (I'm on FH9), especially since I avoid using more advanced things that could fail in translation. I'd be more concerned with the PC to Mac OS9 divide than anything else.
For deck plans, I'd be taking a different approach than most others.
Having gone 3D 20 years ago, I can't bring myself to think about doing section-cuts the hard way (I did my years at a drafting table, don't intend to go back).
For any deck plans I end up doing, I will be building a simple exterior shell 3D model of the ship, then let the computer do the work on making section cuts at various spacings. That will at least give me an adaptable deck outline tool.
For the actual deck layouts (compartments, etc.), I'd expect to work those in FreeHand, using the peripheries imported from the 3D model. Common features (basic quarters block, rest room fixtures, etc.) would be pre-made symbols in a stored library (just as the "how to" doc suggests).
This approach is very common.
I do it almost every day at my day job; 2D is just a lot faster for doing any kind of "flat" layout. 3D shows its strength in anything with complicated vertical shapes (rounded hulls, undercuts, etc.)
It's also similar to how Sternbach and Co. did the TNG ship deck plans. They used 3D CAD to get the outside loft shape of the ship and section-cut peripheries of it, then did all the deck layouts by hand, using rub-down transfers for things like quarters, etc. In their case, there just wasn't Mac or PC graphics horsepower available at the time to deal with hundreds of rooms worth of data.
Sorry I took so long to get this project moving. We need to prioritize the ones to use in PD core rulebook.
Large Freighter
Free Trader (done)
Security Skiff (done)
Fed HEavy Cruiser (got a guy working on that)
Klingon D7 (done)
Romulan War Eagle
Kzinti CC
Gorn BC
Tholian PC (done)
Orion CR
Shuttle (done)
Lyran CA
Andro Intruder
Hydran Ranger
ISC CA
If you want to do deck plans, review this material and email me back.
http://www.starfleetgames.com/deckplanresources.shtml
I just sent emails to everyone who emailed me way back when, so if you didn't get one, I lost yours and we need to re-link.
SVC, don't forget to add the SAMS/Complat to that list.
There is some deck layout information on a complat in PD Klingons, IIRC. One of the issues with anything that has pods is that the pod itself can have widely varying deck layout.
Not the Andro, whoever designs that will go mad, MAD I tell you!
Cyclopean, non-Euclidean naval architecture?
Think M.C. Escher stairways to nowhere...
Nick: Do you happen to have the FFG floor space square footage values on file? Or at least, do you know the diameter os each deck? Thanks!
Garth L. Getgen
Here are the sizes (in centimeters) for some of the furniture and other objects I create on my deck plans. I am NOT trying to set a "standard" for ADB; these are just what I use. I did try to copy directly form Nick's FFG plans where I could. If SVC wants me to change something, I shall try to make his size fit.
| OBJECT | LENGTH | WIDTH |
| Duty Chair | 50 | 50 |
| Command Chair | 70 | 70 |
| Twin Bed | 200 | 100 |
| Wide-twin Bed | 200 | 125 |
| Dresser | 62.5 | 125 |
| Nightstand | 50 | 50 |
| Wall Locker | 62.5 | 125 |
| Shower | 100 | 100 |
| Toilet | 75 | 50 |
| Sink | 37.5 | 62.5 |
| Duty Station (no chair) | 75 | 150 |
| Impulse Engines | 800 | 400 |
| Dilithium Chamber | 250 | 150 |
| Tool Locker | 50 | 100 |
| Server Rack | 75 | 50 -- 75 |
|
| OBJECT | DIAMETER |
| Battery Cell | 75 |
| APR/AWR ** | 400 |
| Power Converter | 300 |
| Turbo-Lift Car | 200 -- 300 |
| Spiral Stairwell | 150 -- 200 |
| Corridore Width | 150 -- 200 |
|
** The bubble of the APR is 400 cm, but when you include the legs, it's 500 cm.
I'm using 150 cm corridore width, but for FFG and larger, it appears that the standard for Federation ships is 200 cm. Likewise, I'm using a smaller Turbo-Lift car (200 cm vs. 250 / 300 cm).
Garth L. Getgen
One item missing is the airlock (normally six per ship, includes ZG suit lockers, ZG tool kit [or two], misc) - is there a 'standard' size (minimum of x square meters)?