Keep all the surgical stations. The Pol could be assumed to pick up a medical team to augment the regularly assigned doctor and nurse plus personnel cross trained to assist them.

Police ship should be relatively inefficient in ways that differ from a warship.

By Garth L. Getgen (Sgt_G) on Monday, April 03, 2017 - 03:13 am: Edit

Didn't have time to work on this at all this weekend as I was helping friends move houses. Or rather, move stuff from one house to another.

Shifting gears a bit, up-topic I mentioned how many beds the deck plans have. You may have notice several types of quarters.

There are two "commander's suites", one for the ship's Captain (normally a Lt-Cmdr but sometimes a full Cmdr) and one for the First Officer (aka Exec Officer). These have two rooms, a bedroom and a living room, with a private lavatory. The living room, which has a table & four chairs, a couch or pair of overstuffed chairs, a TV, and some cabinets, connects directly to the Captain's / Exec's office.

There are twelve "officer's state rooms" that are similar to the commander's suite (separate living room / bedroom w/ private lavatory), except they have a smaller study desk in the living room, which has the same couch & TV but only table and two chairs.

The crew roster normally has 13 officers assigned, so on some ships the Senior Chief / Chief of the Boat take the spare state room.

There are eight "chief's lodgings", which are single rooms combining living space and bedroom, with a private lavatory.

The crew roster normally has 5 Chief Petty Officers assigned to the ship, so the spares are normally left vacant for "super cargo" passengers. If there is an excess number of officers, the lowest ranking Ensigns (O-1) might be relegated to these rooms, or on the flip side, the captain might authorize Petty Officers First Class to take the rooms.

There are 44 sets of enlisted crew quarters in what are called "one-plus-one" rooms. That is, two separate private dormitory-style rooms with single beds and a small living space. The rooms share a lavatory between them.

The footprint of a pair of one-plus-one rooms is nearly identical to the footprint of one officer's state room. This allows married couples assigned to the same ship the option, with captain's approval and at their expense, to have their quarters reconfigured to a state room. The ship was designed with this in mind, so plumbing and electrical connections are already in place.

There are 6 sets of "two-plus-two" quarters, labeled "Excess Quarters", that have two rooms with two single beds and minimum living space and a shared lavatory between them. These rooms are available to junior enlisted crewmen, but this would mean the ship has many more personnel than the normal crew roster. Often, these rooms are used for storage or converted for special missions (such as the ship assigned to the Inspector General uses these for additional office space).

Designers note: These rooms are located on Deck Five, forward section, and originally the space was intended to be escape pods, but I began to question how realistic escape pods were. Could the entire crew get to them in time? Could the pods get far enough away from the ship I it was going to blow up? I mention it as an option if players want to convert them to 12 escape pods.

And finally, there are 2 small barracks, each with four two-tier bunk-beds and 8 wall lockers. These are located on Deck Two, near the gym, so troops assigned to these rooms will have to use the gym's locker rooms for lavatory facilities. Like the two-plus-two rooms, these are typically excess and therefore often used as storage.

The above types of quarters are by no means all the types one might find on deck plans. I can think of a dozen or more variants. These are just the ones I used on the cutter.


Garth L. Getgen

By Jeff Wile (Jswile) on Monday, April 03, 2017 - 01:02 pm: Edit

Just had another thought. The two ten cell brig areas (one to port, and the other on starboard sides of the PoL) could be used as emergency hospital wards when there are no prisoners onboard.

In fact, the brig might even be a better choice for quarantine cases.

By Steve Petrick (Petrick) on Monday, April 03, 2017 - 01:25 pm: Edit

Looking at the Modern U.S. Military, medical treatment has been pushed down. The basic "combat medic" is trained to do things that medics in World War II were incapable of performing (for want of training, but mostly because the medical science was not there yet to give them the tools to do such in the field). They are augmented within the rifle squads by infantrymen trained as "combat lifesavers" who basically are now the World War II medics to all intents and purposes.

Moving into the Star Fleet Universe future, it is highly probable that the "nurses" are fully capable (supported by the surgical tables) of performing a lot of surgeries themselves. Remember, the meme is that these people are the picks of populations in the billions, which is why ships are as good as they are (see the background for crew quality). Simply to qualify as a nurse for the fleet (or police forces), and knowing that they are going to have to deal with the unusual and unpredictable (landing parties encountering things never encountered before) they are going to be highly trained (one cannot begin to imagine what the washout rate for such people must be like).

So the ship's doctor may be there to handle the really, really, bizarre things, and maybe does the actual "brain surgery" while the nurses are doing the more mundane things like sewing up tears in the aorta and removing shrapnel from a patient's liver.

By Jeff Wile (Jswile) on Monday, April 03, 2017 - 03:25 pm: Edit

It's like a luxury for every POL in the fleet to have four complete surgical bays, one surgeon and one surgical nurse/PA.

I can understand that additional staff can be added during emergencies... but having 100% or 200% over capacity in surgical equipment taking up floor space in the ships sick bay seems counter intuitive.

I could see the ship having the excess equipment if it's intended to be part of emergency medical support off the ship ...that way you don't strip the POL of all the medical facilities...but in that case wouldn't it be better to prepackage the extra two surgery kits for transporter delivery or in a 0.35 cargo load that can be quickly placed in a Admin Shuttle?

By John Sickels (Johnsickels) on Monday, April 03, 2017 - 07:59 pm: Edit

We know that the nurse on one particular Federation heavy cruiser had a PhD in biochemistry and was well on her way to being an MD when she joined Star Fleet Medical Corps and served as a nurse.

I'd imagine a Star Fleet nurse is more capable than many 21-century MDs, and not just due to the better equipment/medicine. The whole crew of a starship consists of 99.99th percentile people.

By wayne douglas power (Wayne) on Monday, April 03, 2017 - 08:51 pm: Edit

The best of the best.

By Jeff Wile (Jswile) on Monday, April 03, 2017 - 09:08 pm: Edit

John sickels:

I can accept that star fleet medical services nurses are well trained and able and willing to undertake a multitude of medical procedures as part of the job.

It's just that the POL roster only has one surgeon, one surgical nurse/PA. There are also, iirc only two corpsman which is almost enough to make up ONE surgical team. There simply isn't enough personnel to make use of FOUR surgical bays.

Plus, most POL class ships will be many hours, if not days away from from any pool of trained surgeons or nurses given the size of the Federation, and the distribution of 13 star bases and 34 BATS. Heck, most major and minor fed worlds are in the home world sector, or widely distributed across the frontier.

Nor is it realistic that the crew roster be amended to increase the medical staff of a POL to fully staff four surgeries.

That said...I can believe that under special circumstances a specific POL could have extra medical personnel assigned...but it would have to be an exception, not part of the normal operation of the PoL.

I could even see having two extra surgical bay kits made up into a cargo pallet for use in an emergency if a civilian or retired star fleet surgeon was available on the planet that the POL responded to in an emergency.

But, I guess I am the only one who sees it the way I do.

I will stop talking about it.

By Garth L. Getgen (Sgt_G) on Monday, April 03, 2017 - 11:44 pm: Edit

Jeff,

I remember the time I fell and stiff-armed the ground to keep from breaking my face and ended up with a compression fracture in my elbow. The ER that I drove myself to (in a stick-shift car, no less) had seven or eight treatment beds but only one doctor and two nurses on duty. I just don't see it as a huge problem to have more trauma beds than doctors.


Garth L. Getgen

By Garth L. Getgen (Sgt_G) on Tuesday, April 04, 2017 - 01:49 am: Edit

What's in the cargo bay? The cargo bay is a 10 x 20 x 5.75 meter space, which is big enough to hold four standard admin shuttles. Obviously, you can put dang near anything you want in it, but I do have a "typical load" already labeled on the deck plans. Each of these is a 9x9 meter block:

- Left side
-- Emergency Shelters
-- Emergency Rations
-- Inflatable Watercraft / All Terrain Vehicles
-- Rescue Equipment / Environmental Suits
- Right side
-- Emergency Rations
-- Emergency Shelters
-- Power Generators / Portable Commo Gear / Portable Life Support
-- Field Hospital

I was trying to imagine all the different rescue scenarios the ship might need to handle. For example, if they are attempting to save a passenger liner in distress, they would probably need the portable life support system to scrub the CO2 from the liner's air.


Garth L. Getgen

By Garth L. Getgen (Sgt_G) on Tuesday, April 04, 2017 - 03:23 am: Edit

Jeff: The brig cells are 1.5 x 2.0 meters, literally just big enough for a bed and a "throne".


Garth L. Getgen

By Jeff Wile (Jswile) on Tuesday, April 04, 2017 - 06:48 am: Edit

and that would be enough for a quarantine area.

By Garth L. Getgen (Sgt_G) on Sunday, April 09, 2017 - 01:14 am: Edit

Not feeling well but couldn't sleep the other day. Aftermath of visit to the dentist. I wanted to work on the APT but "writer's block" kicked in. So I looked over the cutter plans and made a few minor tweaks. Most of you have only seen Deck Three, so some of this won't mean much to you all.

There are four triangle rooms, two on Deck 3 and two on Deck 4, that I re-labeled from "Observation" to "Meeting" rooms. My intent was to have large windows in those rooms, but I have since decided not to put any windows in at all, except for the two for the optical telescopes on Deck Five.

On Deck Six, I took out the octagonal poker table in the game room and replaced it with a standard eight-seat conference table. Everyone I showed the plans to didn't know what the poker tables were until I told them. (SVC figured it out.) Plus I already have an octagon-shaped holographic projection table in the astrophysics lab, which could add to the confusion of what the poker tables were. Best to get rid of them. Poker's against regs anyway.

I re-labeled a "Tool Locker" to "Storage", but as that room has the access down to the Main Defector Dish, I might take out a bunch of cabinets and put equipment to support the Deflector.

The coolest change was an oddly shaped room I had labeled as a "Pump House". It's on Deck Six, right at the neck where the forward and aft hulls connect. It didn't make sense for it to be a water pump. Don't know where it came from, but the idea popped into my head to turn that into the "Inertial Navigation Systems" room. I gave up trying to draft a gimbal-mounted gyroscope and just put a box with a circle / ball on it, as the gyroscope should be sealed anyway. ;-)


Garth L. Getgen

By Garth L. Getgen (Sgt_G) on Sunday, April 09, 2017 - 03:41 am: Edit

The other piece of art that I tweaked a bit was the top-plane view of four ships in the Cutter's evolutionary history: http://i1170.photobucket.com/albums/r528/Getgen/WDD_ePOL_POL_POL.gif.

The first and third ships are from my head-canon and are subject to rejection by ADB. The second ship is as close as I could get to the original clip-art and still be consistent with the fourth ship, which is as close to the actual Mongoose miniature as I could measure / calculate, adjusted to my needs for the deck plans.

The first ship on the left is the Warp-refit Destroyer (WDD) that served for 65 years before the POL was developed. I wanted to make something that was "retro looking", and I think I succeeded. Yes?

Internally, the WDD is a completely different critter from its later cousin. Note that the warp pylons mount much farther forward, right where the POL has most of the crew quarters. There are too many engineering systems to allow for private quarters, so the enlisted crew members bunk in open-bay barracks and must use common-area gang showers. I'm not even going to think about doing deck plans for it.

Next is the prototype Cutter developed in Y125. This has the tiny stubby little engines (37.5 x 8.5 meters) from ADB's clip-art. In my head-canon, the company misunderstood Star Fleet's request and built some two dozen or more before the contract was transferred to the Police Force. The design was modified to fit the new requirements, but these first several ships could not be retrofitted to the production model specifications, at least not at a reasonable cost. They were deemed "adequate" for use in the Capital Zone, but they lack the "legs" for long patrols. When civilians think of a Police Cutter, this is what comes to mind as it's what they see over Earth/Mars, Vulcan, Andoria, and the other core planets.

The third ship, from my head-canon, is the Y127+ production version of the Masterson-class Cutter, featuring larger 55 x 9 meter engines. I created this design because, frankly, I can't stand the look of those stubby little engines in the original clip-art. Sorry. The internal deuterium slush tanks were reduced in size, freeing up space that became the gymnasium and shuttle parts storage (which later became the drone rack). This ship had the "legs" for longer patrols, but the larger engines caused stability issues at high dash-warp speeds.

The fourth ship is the Callaghan-class Cutter, developed in Y147 to solve the stability problems, and to increase the ship's patrol range. The most obvious change is the larger (60 x 10 meter) swept-back warp engines. Other changes include: a stiffening backbone on the aft hull (to reduce body flex under acceleration), a façade on the front face of the aft hull cylinder (to protect against sandpapering by micro-meteors), changing the main bridge from a rectangle to a Star Fleet standard bridge design (adapted from the Burke-class FFG), and moving the forward side air locks / docking ports towards the nose (allows clearance nose-to-engines when two Cutters dock together). This one also has the Plus Refit of Y167+, which could be added to any of the three designs.

All three Cutter designs have the same exact size body: 108 meter total length by 27.5 meters wide. The forward hull is 48 meters, the cylinder is 45 meters long, and the ice cream cone tail is 15 (5 + 10) meters long. As noted, there are some slight internal changes, but nothing drastic (unlike the WDD to POL changes).

In my head-canon, several more prototype Cutters were built for a few more years, to use up the remaining engines already in stock and to fulfill contract requirements. The production Masterson-class ships were built, under license at other shipyards, until at least Y162, and a large number were eventually converted to Callaghan-class.

It should be noted that regardless of which class, all Cutters have the same exact capabilities in SFB / FedCmdr and F&E game terms. Indeed, the minor differences shouldn't make much of an impact in a Prime Directive campaign. One might say that the Callaghan-class is more of an interceptor / emergency responder, whereas the Masterson-class is more of a patroller / convoy escort. At least, that's my head-canon.


Garth L. Getgen

By Garth L. Getgen (Sgt_G) on Sunday, April 09, 2017 - 10:03 am: Edit

Okay, back to Sick Bay. I did some hacking on it, and here's what I came up with: http://i1170.photobucket.com/albums/r528/Getgen/Sick-Bay_v3.gif

The right-most version is what I just drafted. To be honest, now that I see in on-screen and not just in my head, I'm really not digging it so much. :-/

If anyone cares to take a stab at drafting a different arraignment, the Sick Bay is locked in at 12.000 meters by 23.625 meters (inside measurements). The outer walls are 25-cm, and the interior walls are 12.5-cm. The doors on the south wall cannot be any closer together (there's a turbolift on the other side of the wall), but otherwise doors could be placed anywhere along the north or east/west walls.

The exam beds are 1.00 x 2.25 meters. The surgery tables are 0.75 by 2.00 meters. Chairs are 0.50 x 0.50 meters. Desks are 1.00 by 2.00 meters, plus the chair. The body coolers are 1.00 by 2.25 meters. All the cabinets and such are in multiples of 0.125 meters.


Garth L. Getgen

By A. David Merritt (Adm) on Sunday, April 09, 2017 - 10:45 am: Edit

POLs: I like the progression you show for the Design.

Sickbay: I like the new design, although I still think you should have two, two bed surgery bays.

By Garth L. Getgen (Sgt_G) on Sunday, April 09, 2017 - 12:15 pm: Edit

Sickbay version 4, or perhaps version 2.1, as I only tweaked the previous one: http://i1170.photobucket.com/albums/r528/Getgen/Sick-Bay_v4.gif

Next time I try to re-draft Sickbay, I will rip everything out, including surgery, and start from scratch.


Garth L. Getgen

By Jeff Wile (Jswile) on Sunday, April 09, 2017 - 02:31 pm: Edit

The rationale for a early version "prototype " police cruiser sounds reasonable to me...especially if Earth, Mars, Venus and Luna all bought into the first production run. It's even reasonable that those ships served for a long time.

I hope you submit the idea as it would show the progression of the design from the early years right through to the end of the General War.

By Gary Carney (Nerroth) on Sunday, April 09, 2017 - 03:09 pm: Edit

Laying out the WDD/POL evolutionary history is an interesting concept, though I'd be somewhat concerned if the result was to pre-empt the opportunity for any of the Starline 2500 POL miniatures to be usable as Auroran frigates.

I might have a purely selfish reason for saying this. A few years back, I made a failed attempt to do up a pair of 2500-series POLs as FRA FFs; I even custom-ordered a set of Auroran Navy decals to go on them (and onto a 2500-series CL), which I never quite worked up the courage to actually apply...

But then, if it could be said that the Callaghan-type layout (or one functionally equivalent to it) was one which could be developed in parallel over at Aurora III at some point after Y130, well and good.

By Garth L. Getgen (Sgt_G) on Sunday, April 09, 2017 - 05:59 pm: Edit

Well, Gary, you can always hope that SVC rejects my ideas and tells me he wants to do something else instead. It would not be the first time.

Perhaps the company recognized the stability issues and was already working on a solution at the Aurora facility, and losing that R&D set them back by fifteen years.


Garth L. Getgen

By Will McCammon (Djdood) on Sunday, April 09, 2017 - 06:30 pm: Edit

I don't think anything from any deckplan project would impact miniatures that are already in-production and have molds paid for.

There will always be differences and artist license. The miniature for the FedEx courier I sculpted doesn't match Nick Blank's deckplans. There wasn't anything "wrong" with the deck plans or exterior views Nick did, nor is there anything "wrong" with the mini I did. It could just be different shipyards built them slightly differently.

No two US Navy ships of the same class are the same. There are always (sometimes externally significant) differences as newer ships are built to improved layouts or have different equipment. This is true of large airplanes as well and the space shuttle orbiters. I can see no reason why that wouldn't also be the case with starships, unless something forced more consistency (like war-time production-line efficiency requirements)

By Garth L. Getgen (Sgt_G) on Sunday, April 09, 2017 - 10:08 pm: Edit

Will, no one was talking about creating new minis.

In this case, however, the mini had an impact on the deck plans. I had a set about 80% done when the new Mongoose mini design came out, so I scrapped what I had and started over. Granted, I did a lot of copy/paste to shortcut the new plans.


Garth L. Getgen

By Garth L. Getgen (Sgt_G) on Friday, June 02, 2017 - 03:36 pm: Edit

Last night, I started playing around with SketchUp, porting the outside view of my deck plans to 3D. It's still a work in progress, but I do have all the major parts built, including all the weapons. I was going to post some images, but my freaking PhotoBucket account is screwing up ... again.


Garth L. Getgen

By Garth L. Getgen (Sgt_G) on Friday, June 02, 2017 - 07:40 pm: Edit

Okay, after fighting with the site for almost an hour, I finally got into PhotoBucket. Let's see if I can post the links ....

Top-front ISO view

Bottom-front ISO view

Top-aft ISO view

Bottom-aft ISO view


Garth L. Getgen

By A. David Merritt (Adm) on Friday, June 02, 2017 - 09:14 pm: Edit

Looks nice.