ADM: I have plenty of water tanks.

Jeff: I have two computer server farms, one primary and one for engineering.

Heat sink doesn't make sense as this void is in the middle of the ship. Not dead center, but no-where near the outside of the ship.


Garth L. Getgen

By Jeff Wile (Jswile) on Thursday, April 02, 2020 - 12:02 pm: Edit

Garth,

What about energy discharges that damage systems?

Call it an energy sink, if it makes you feel better. Game wise, it acts like a bank of armor boxes.

Suppose it was supposed to suck up enemy wraps discharges... onlyit failed.

By A David Merritt (Adm) on Thursday, April 02, 2020 - 12:27 pm: Edit

Garth;

You may not need water, but what else might you put there that could be pumped in and out? Air, fuel, food synthesizer stock, maybe some sort of waste tank?

By Mark Hutton (Trynda1701) on Thursday, April 02, 2020 - 03:48 pm: Edit

Is the void directly between crew cabins? Could one of the two either side be stretched lengthwise to lose the space, and be designated as a cabin for a certain rank up the chain of command, if you have the crew rosta worked out? E.g. Second Officer or Helmsman.

By Garth L. Getgen (Sgt_G) on Thursday, April 02, 2020 - 04:23 pm: Edit

The void in question is straddled by the new Cargo Lifts to either side, the Tubolift shaft/corridor to the rear, and a pair of crew quarters to the front. There is a center-line wall dividing those quarters, so it would not be easy to extend them into this space.

EDIT: I just made this image to show you the "problem". I need to figure out to do with the pink area.

I had the same issue on Deck 3, but instead of crew quarters, it was boxed in by Sick Bay. I put a label "Sick Bay Life Support" in the void, emergency / back-up systems for times when Sick Bay might need to be isolated from the rest of the ship. Maintenance would be a bear because there's no direct access (no place to put a door, not without re-arranging the Sick Bay *again*), but if you shut down a Cargo Lift, you can get to it.

There are new 2.0x2.5-meter rooms created on Deck 7 & 8, but those are open on one end. Deck 7 is next to the galley, so it'll become storage for pots-&-pans. I moved all the sub-space radio equipment into the one on Deck 8. There's a for-aft turbolift corridor on Decks 4 & 5, so there was no void created on those decks.

A side effect of stretching the ship is it created space for a pair of 2.5x5.0-meter storage closets at the end of a row of crew quarters on Deck 3/4/5/6. I'm still debating whether these should be at the forward or aft end of the crew quarters, or perhaps in the middle. For now, they're at the aft end, but it'd be easy to move them if so desired.


Garth L. Getgen

By Jeff Wile (Jswile) on Thursday, April 02, 2020 - 04:28 pm: Edit

Sounds like a great place for an evidence locker. Large, controlled access.

Perfect?

By Garth L. Getgen (Sgt_G) on Thursday, April 02, 2020 - 04:49 pm: Edit

LOL, Jeff. That thought did pop into my head. See EDIT above for an image of the problem.


Garth L. Getgen

By Jason E. Schaff (Jschaff297061) on Thursday, April 02, 2020 - 05:04 pm: Edit

Could it be some sort of mechanical gear involved with the function of the cargo lifts?
EDIT: Access for inspection / maintenance could be through the adjoining turbolift shaft.

By Garth L. Getgen (Sgt_G) on Thursday, April 02, 2020 - 06:54 pm: Edit

Actually, the more I think about it, the more I like Jeff's idea. For now, and until and unless someone comes up with a better idea, I labeled the room "Secure Storage" and put four storage lockers in it.

You know, that's about the third or fourth time I used one of Jeff's suggestions. Then again, I blame all my headaches on him for pushing so hard about needing the cargo lifts in the first place.

Thanks for the feedback, everyone.


Garth L. Getgen

By Garth L. Getgen (Sgt_G) on Thursday, April 02, 2020 - 07:37 pm: Edit

New question: Are Sensors and Scanners two separate systems??

SVC said he doesn't like dish antenna for the sub-space radio, so the "siren" just became the Primary Sensor dish, and I got rid of all the other radio dishes. Now I have to deal with the flat-panel Target Sensors. I got rid of the aft ones, but I kind of want to keep the front one and rename them as Scanners.


Garth L. Getgen

By Jeff Wile (Jswile) on Thursday, April 02, 2020 - 09:13 pm: Edit

Garth, your call, but have you given any thought to reversing the roles of the sensors and scanners?

In a couple of the episodes of the tv shows there were references to “lateral sensor arrays”. That would make sense since many episodes had the ship conduct sensor sweeps of planets that the ship was orbiting.

If you use a fixed point sensor dish, the only area that you could scan would be the FA arc.

However, if sensors could be mounted flush on the hull, you should be able to effectively use sensors all around the ship (360 degrees.)

The scanners are also 360 degrees per the episodes, but I do not recall any one using scanners for planetary searches. Perhaps I am mis remembering.

The “Big thing” is the deflector dish must be directed forward, to act as a deflector shield thingy... it’s apparently the thing that prevents normal space debris from hitting the shields or the ship.

Y.M.M.V.

By Garth L. Getgen (Sgt_G) on Thursday, April 02, 2020 - 09:49 pm: Edit

Jeff, I agree, which is why I had for & aft sensors (and radios), plus the PALS (Phased-Array Lateral Sensors), but SVC's concern is that no other published set of deck plans have those things. Fair enough. If he suddenly changes his mind, I did make a copy of the previous file before I started to edit the current one.

Oh good grief, the file size is now 9,231 KB. The sample houses that come with the program run 72 to 127 KB.


Garth L. Getgen

By Jeff Wile (Jswile) on Thursday, April 02, 2020 - 10:20 pm: Edit

Garth, I think what you are doing comes under the subject title of “Labor of Love.” Most place couldn’t afford to PAY people Enough to put up with all the guff I and some other AUGUST persons have put you through.

Just in case no one has said it, thank you for working on the deck plans. I appreciate it, and I do think others do as well.

P.S. I will try to avoid dragging you along the next time I feel strongly about the way you are doing these deck plans. Grin.

By Garth L. Getgen (Sgt_G) on Thursday, April 02, 2020 - 10:32 pm: Edit

It's all good, Jeff; there was supposed to a smiley face on my "complaint" above. I'm sure you knew I was kidding. I hope so, at least.


Garth L. Getgen

By Jeff Wile (Jswile) on Thursday, April 02, 2020 - 10:37 pm: Edit

I kind of figured that! Grin.

But then again, sometimes my enthusiasm can come across rather strong. Think of it as a character trait.

By Garth L. Getgen (Sgt_G) on Saturday, April 04, 2020 - 05:25 pm: Edit

Okay, the question came up "why so many beds", so let's do the bed count verses crew count:

The ship has a crew of ~100, of which about 70 run the ship, 10 are shuttle deck crew, and 20 are Tac-Teams (equals 4x BP).

The crew roster lists 13 officers. There are 14 officer suites. One spare room.

There are typically five Chiefs, and the ship has eight Chief's quarters. Three spare rooms.

There are 82 enlisted crewmen. There are 44 pairs of one-plus-one crew quarters (separate rooms with shared lav). That leaves six spare beds.

With Commander's Options, 10% of 50-BPV means the ship can have 40 more regular crew (max allowed) for 4 points, and +1 more point for two BP at 1/2 point each, which is 10 more Tac-Team members.

In addition to the (14+8+88) 110 beds listed above, there are six two-plus-two rooms (24 beds) and two 8-man barracks (16 beds) bringing the total number of beds up to 150, the same as the max crew allowed. Right??

Typically, the barracks and 2+2 rooms aren't needed and thus can be re-purposed for other uses or simply become storage.


Garth L. Getgen

By Steve Petrick (Petrick) on Saturday, April 04, 2020 - 06:20 pm: Edit

Garth L. Getgen:

You might also assume people there, but not represented.

When the ship had just two boarding parties, you might have simply assumed there was no additional coordinating body, that is to say the two boarding parties were simply commanded by the senior of the two boarding party team leaders.

But now the ship has four boarding parties, and while that is nominally 20 personnel, you might assume that they are considered in Federation terms a "reinforced platoon" (as a normal Federation platoon is three boarding parties (R2.M1-1). As such, there might actually be 22 bodies, a platoon leader and a platoon sergeant.

However, the ship could spend 10 Commander's Option Points to add a full Federation Marine Company [1xCrew Unit non-combat headquarters (+1 BPV), three platoons each of three boarding parties (+4.5 BPV), 1xheavy weapons squad (+1 BPV)] reinforced [1xadditional heavy weapons squads, or perhaps an engineer squad (+1 BPV), 1xadditional boarding party (+0.5 BPV) and a commando platoon of 2xCommando Squads (+2 BPV)].

The point here is that while you are unlikely to have the full force of boarding parties (and heavy weapons squads and commandoes), you might often have some element of them. That is to say your Police Cutter might use its Commander's Options to buy two T-bomb (+8 BPV) and then spend much of the reaming 3.8 BPV (assuming you start with a full refitted ship) to purchase another seven boarding parties (or two commando squads, a heavy weapons squad, and a boarding party, or what have you). But having a Marine Lt (or a Police Boarding Lt if you prefer) who has the training to absorb attachments to the "landing force" becomes a reasonably good idea. And, yes, often he will be a very Jr Lt, but you may have an experience LT, even one about to make Captain, And yes the idea of a full Marine Company being added implies they bring their own company commander and XO to the ship, and the Ship's own platoon may then become subordinate for the mission to the added Marine company.

But your boarding parties should be looked at as a platoon (and, again, a reinforced one), and you should have a set up for the platoon leader (who may on a given ship not be present and currently a sergeant is leading), but again note that when additional troops are added, having a trained officer to lead and coordinate their actions and advise the ship's commander is a plus.

Remember that refits not themselves purchased with commander's options, that is to say already installed on the ship by scenario rule generally due to the year of the scenario increases the commander's option points, so a fully refitted POL is 59 BPV which gives you 11.8 Commander's Option Points at that time. 10 Boarding parties (max allowed) is five Commander's Option Points (50 personnel), two heavy weapons squads (max allowed) is two Commander's Option points (another 10 personnel), two commando squads is (max allowed) is two Commander's Option points (another 10 personnel) for nine commander's option points adding 70 personnel, and two commander's option points can add two crew units (20 more personnel) getting the total to 90 added people. If you were to cut one boarding party (0.5 BPV and five personnel) you could instead buy a third crew unit (which would at this point leave 0.3 BPV) your total added personnel would reach 95 legally.

Note also that 10 crew units is not an exact "100 crewmen" but allows for some slippage, that is to say 100 crew units can be anywhere from 95 to 104 crewmen.

By Garth L. Getgen (Sgt_G) on Saturday, April 04, 2020 - 07:03 pm: Edit

Petrick, how did you do that? I looked it up earlier, and I could swear that it said Commander's Options are 10% of the ship's BPV. Now it says it's 20%. How did you sneak into my house and edit my rulebook???

So, the max is actually ~195 crew, not 150. Well, *bleep*!

Okay, so, if there are more than 150 personnel on the ship, they could turn the 24 beds in the 2+2 rooms into bunk beds, and then start putting bunk beds in the 1+1 rooms. (Note: the barracks already have bunk beds.) The other option would be to hot-bunk it. Or, if you find someone cute, you could always share....

The point being, I made allowances for more than a reasonable number of extra crew. I think it would be highly unusual (albeit not impossible, as you pointed out) to have more than 50 extra crew members, so personally I think it would be silly to put nearly 200 beds on a ship with a nominal crew of 100. I felt having 150 beds was overkill.


Garth L. Getgen

By Jeff Wile (Jswile) on Saturday, April 04, 2020 - 07:53 pm: Edit

Hot bunking.

By Steve Petrick (Petrick) on Saturday, April 04, 2020 - 08:25 pm: Edit

Garth Getgrn:

Trade secret.

By Jeff Wile (Jswile) on Saturday, April 04, 2020 - 10:28 pm: Edit

Well... you could shorten the time each person gets to use each bed/cot. Instead of 8 hours, go to 6 or 4. Not ideal, but depending on how long the trip lasts, it would be doable.

Plus, don’t forget the brig sleeps ten? Twelve? In an emergency, put a bunk in and you got more bunks... assuming no prisoners need to be confined...

By Garth L. Getgen (Sgt_G) on Saturday, April 04, 2020 - 11:07 pm: Edit

The Brig has a total of twenty cells/beds. Sick Bay has sixteen: ten in recovery, to in isolation, two in the private exam rooms, and two surgical tables.


Garth L. Getgen

By Jeff Wile (Jswile) on Sunday, April 05, 2020 - 10:53 am: Edit

What does that add?

Twenty cells, if you double bunk them (add an upper bunk in each cell) is 40 bunks, 16 in sick bay, (40+16) =56.

So, instead of the 150 you posted above, earlier, the “real” total of beds on board a POL is (150+56)=206?

So with hot bunking, in an emergency, say a POL could ***In Theory*** hot bunk up to 600 (100 or so the actual assigned crew) meaning for a plausible fiction story, carry 500 souls to safety n an emergency.

Cool.

Let’s say a f&e province has 7 POL ships assigned. That potentially means, they could evacuate (7*500)=3,500 refugees per trip, if needed.

Not a huge number, (nothing like a world population, say) but smaller colonies or an outpost could be transferred in an emergency. And if the “place of safety” were close enough, the rescue ships might even have time to make more than a single trip.

By Garth L. Getgen (Sgt_G) on Monday, April 06, 2020 - 03:56 am: Edit

Bunk beds in the brig would be a security violation.

For evacuations, it's unlikely that the refugees would bunk with the crew. Obviously, any unused quarters would be made available. The gym can house at least 50, maybe 75, people and still leave some personal space between sleeping mats/cots. If it's sitting/standing room only, I'll let you do the math ... the gym is 16.50 x 10.25 meters.


I finally figured out to put in the compartments that used to house the PALS systems: Emergency power generators. I have three other pairs of rooms to convert. two will become the maneuvering thruster systems. Not sure about the last pair, but given that they're small, triangle rooms next to the HVAC, I think they'll become heat exchangers / radiators. The other thing I need to work on is the Mess Deck. I thought putting the cargo lifts in would nuke this area. It's more like a hand grenade but it'll still take a bit of thought to fix.


Garth L. Getgen

By Jeff Wile (Jswile) on Monday, April 06, 2020 - 09:55 am: Edit

Garth,

If it’s a matter of saving lives, and assuming no prisoners are presently incarcerated in the brigs, every bed not filled is a potential life lost.

Assume further multiple ships and many trips to rescue said refugees. 40 bunks in the twenty cells, 7 ships in the operation, and perhaps 10 trips? By not using the cells in double occupancy, it adds up to ((40*7)*10)=2,800 Refugees.

If you hot bunk in 8 hour shifts you triple the number (assumes the ships life support capacity can handle the load, but we have no data to make that determination).