Archive through January 25, 2023
Star Fleet Universe Discussion Board: Prime Directive RPG: DECK PLANS PROJECTS:
Kzinti Destroyer:
Archive through January 25, 2023
Ok I have been looking over this an i looks like nobody has ever done a kizinti deck plan; please stop me if I'm wrong and someone has a hard drive full of them.
So I don't bite off more than I can chew, I'm looking at either a frigate or maybe a destroyer. The exact ship I'd need to research first, and depends on what has been done, if any.
Andrew, To my knowledge, nobody has done Kzinti deck plans (nor Hydran). I had a rough start of a Gorn BC going, but it wasn't a real projust, just enough of a draft to help size the Shapeways mini.
Steve Cain: I just saw your post from back in March, but I'm confused by the question. Can you clarify what you're asking about, perhaps scan that portion and post / e-mail the image?
Garth L. Getgen
Ok I am mathing out the number of decks on a Kizinti Destroyer, the original one not the war destroyer, using a Shapeways 3125 as my guide. Right now my calculations say ther are 14.58 decks, not counting the sensor ear. I'm tempted to say that the half deck is the floors / ceilings of the ship but don't want to just assume that and mess it up. Looking for input before moving on, especially from the Steve's.
Andrew:
You might want to use the 0.58 deck for life support processing. We have not seen such facilities in TOS or other sources, but as Garth went through the POL deck plans, he originally used the tail cone of the POL secondary hull to position the water tanks due to the odd shape.
Technically, you could place the 0.58 deck at any level of the ship. Personally, I recommend the lowest level Incase of leakage. (I know, artificial gravity, but still, having grey water seeping into ones quarters is no ones idea of fun.)
Water purification, reverse osmosis, sanitary systems can be miniaturized, but if you have the room, using natural filtration in a gravity field has got to be cheaper and very reliable. For a battle damaged hull trying to restore services, (at a time when power might be very limited) just fixing the artificial gravity automatically fixes the water purification at same time.
Given the shape of the Kzinti DD hull, having a 0.58 high deck would give you ample capacity of water storage. Plus, if you place the 0.58 deck right, you have a good place to carve out those places where added deck height is needed
shuttle bay, gym, cargo hold etc.)
Andrew, what height are you using for each deck?
For the Lyran CA, I used 3m (including deck and ceiling space) per deck which gave 4 decks for the outer sponsons and 3 decks for the central bridge.
3m as well, odd... my calculations seem correct. Let me show what I have.
1.4cm height on the model, not counting the sensor ear, times the 3125 scale. Totals 4375cm high ship, divided by 100 to get meters. 43.75 meters divided by 3. Gets 14.58333... decks
At the moment I'm away from the model to double check my measurements but I think it's right with the Kizinti ships being taller than other empires.
I used 2.75 meter (9 foot) ceiling heights + 0.25 deck plates for 3.00 meters deck-to-deck. A lot of published deck plans use 3.00 meter (10 foot) ceiling heights + deck plate thickness, which I've seen as a thin line or about a half-meter.
Don't forget the outer hull thickness in your calculations. I made mine 0.50 meters thick, but you can make yours thinner.
How tall are Kzintis? Without looking it up, I thought they were seven-foot tall tigers. They'd want higher ceilings, no??
Hmmmm .... divide 43.75 by 3.125 .... an even fourteen decks. Oh, opps ... forgot the outer hull. {sigh}
When it comes to the 3125 scale, if you need to tweak it slightly and use 3100 or 3150 to make the numbers come out to what you want, who's to know? Just make sure you use the same tweak is all three dimensions, or you risk distorting the proportions.
Have fun drawing!!!
Garth L. Getgen
How many decks if you sliced the ship vertically like a rocket instead of horizontally?
(I always thought a Tholian ship should be done this way due to the sharp angles)
Not to mention ‘up’ is only relative to the design.
There would be a LOT more decks if i did vertical, but the shuttle bay would be very odd that way. Not doing that. Also I need to figure out how much to "trim' for the outer hull. Forgot about that in my first round of calculations.
Kzinti average about 2.4 m height and 230 kg in weight (8' / 500 lbs) [Wikipedia] …
That might come out to about 2.75 m for height and 3.25 or 3.5 m per deck (including floor and ceiling spaces) …
Actually, male Kzintis range from 6'10" to 7'8", or 208-cm to 234-cm. Wonder if they play basketball. I would think they'd want higher ceilings, at least 3.00 (ten foot) if not 3.125 or 3.25.
Garth L. Getgen
>.>; Might be a thread necromancy bit here, but I Finally figured out how to take a top down picture of the Kizinti DD and started to make Deck plans for it! At the moment I'm making progress with out lining the decks and major rooms / areas of the ship. I went with 3.5 meter decks, to include floor and ceilings, and have 12 Decks. I am going to check the 'Deck Plan Document' when I get to finishing out each deck to have rooms, but I'm not quite there yet.
Andrew, you might consider starting a new topic for the Kzinti DD deck plans.
Otherwise, any information you post here may well be lost as there is no cross reference.
Andrew, getting the top view is easy (see the MSSBs), it's getting the side view (for slopes) is harder (easier if there's a miniature) ...
You can manually spin the Shapeways render photos to get to a point you can screen grab a side view and have the angles.
If I have a top view you're welcome to it. Just ask and I'll let you know. I have about 90% of them.
Okay, a clarification, I have and I am using the 3125 Kizinti Destroyer model, frosted high detail, to figure out size and such, bought it once I picked the ship to do. Thanks for the offers on how to get a top down view thought. Related to that I'm using the SSD and module M to figure out where all the internal stuff goes and where internal bulkheads are. My biggest concern at the moment is I don't have then nice shuttle and other in room item pictures like on the D7 plans.
I'd bet if you e-mail the 3D artist who did the Shapeways design, he could send you a GIF/JPG of the top/side/front plane views.
The Franz Joseph version is 7.64 meters by 4.7 meters ... 25 foot by 15 foot 6 exactly. It sits about 2.44 meters, or 8 feet, high. I tweaked it to 7.75 x 4.75 meters to fit the snap grid settings I typically use. The ADB version, based of Nick Blanks FFG plans, is approximately 6.5 x 4.0 meters.
One would presume Kzinti shuttles would be a bit bigger, closer the the FJ-size.
What program are you using to draw / draft this project in?
Garth L. Getgen
I am using Gimp to draw it out, with a different layer for each deck. Much of why I didn't have progress till now was I was 'self learning' the program. At the moment I know that I'll need to clean up some of the decks before I submit it.
Andrew, I never heard of GIMP before, so I looked it up on-line. Their web site says it's a raster-graphics, or bit-map program. While it can be done -- I've seen some eye-popping ship schematics created with MS-Paint -- I think it would be far easier to use a vector-graphics program, such as a low-end CAD program.
A CAD gives you the ability to grab objects (chair, bed, table, etc) and move them around. If you want to delete a line or a wall or a door, without disturbing other lines/walls, you can click on the desired item. With (most) raster-graphic programs, once you place an object (chair, bed, etc), it "merges" with the main image. The program forgets that it was an object or even a line ... it only see the individual pixels. The downside is some CAD programs are super powerful and thus have a steep learning curve. I have TurboCAD but still use my old Floor Plan Plus because of its ease of use.
All that said, if you've mastered GIMP (or MS-Paint) and can make it do what you want without pulling your hair out, more power to you.
Regardless, I look forward to seeing your progress.
Garth L. Getgen
Ok, quick update:
With recalculating the height for 3.25~3.5m decks for taller crew I got to 12.21 decks, I rounded down to 12 and I'm using that .21 as a fudge factor for the outer hull and floors / celling, ect.
Finally got all of the outline done, and am working on 'major' compartments at the moment. but have a minor question, if the SSD and Module M have something in 2 different places which should I go with? At the moment going with Module M due to details in it being better (or so I think).
Also since this is a side project for me, working on it has not been consistent. If someone is needing this sooner, PLEASE let me know in this topic. I can crunch this out sooner if needed.
Andrew, I would say go with Module M.
Out of curiosity I checked the SSD / Mod-M to see what might be different, and the only thing I saw questionable was the shuttle bay.
First, the SSD does state that the ship has only One bay. Secondly, if the shuttle hatch appears on any published clip-art of mini, you *MUST* put the shuttle bay *THERE*, regardless of what the SSD / Mod-M shows.
Garth L. Getgen
The Module M maps may also show where areas are vulnerable, not necessarily where they are located (especially for an areas like "Engineering" that may sprawl across half the ship). Holding the airlock room is one thing, holding the airlock override control panel two decks up is another.
Most of the Kzinti shuttle bay doors are under the chin. Some ships have a second door in the belly, implying multiple decks and ramps so some of those bays and racks may also sprawl a bit.
Don't forget that some areas are two decks in height, like the shuttle bay and the impulse engines ...
Still slowly working on this, and if you need me to finish this as more than a side project; let me know. Also, I have a 'lore' question about the drone arms. Is there any in universe reason why they are there, I know that Y1 says the ship designs as a whole changed due to politics but was wondering if there was more info regarding this? I can explain it from a semi engineering standpoint that the drone arm was added to protect the main ship should a drone prematurely explode. But I don't want to step on any established lore by doing so.
I was wondering if the early Kzinti wars - Kzinti vs Kzinti - led to the arms if many engagements were close-range tractor fights. The launch tubes could have been spread out to give some clearance from tractor emitters under the main hull.
The arm launcher could also have let them launch at an angle over the main hull of the ship if it was in the way. A speed-8 drone could lose a lot of time if it had to take the long way around to the target. Later battles were more often at a distance - and with speedier drones - which made launch tube positioning less important.