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FC Evolution
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How much should FC evolve to include?
All the races in the alpha octant (including Andros), but not complicated scout, fighter, and X-rules.
51%
 51%  [ 47 ]
All the races in the alpha octant (excluding Andros), but not fighters, scouts, and X-ships.
10%
 10%  [ 10 ]
X-ships
3%
 3%  [ 3 ]
Scouts
0%
 0%  [ 0 ]
Fighters for everybody
5%
 5%  [ 5 ]
Everthing SFB has
10%
 10%  [ 10 ]
any combonation of the above. (specify in a post, please)
9%
 9%  [ 9 ]
Omega Octant races
5%
 5%  [ 5 ]
Anything else that SFB has. (specify in a post, please)
3%
 3%  [ 3 ]
Total Votes : 92

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Nerroth
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Joined: 08 Oct 2006
Posts: 1556
Location: Ontario, Canada

PostPosted: Fri Jun 06, 2008 9:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Andros for sure!

I wouldn't mind the other Alphas, like the Jindarians or Vudar.


I'd like to see X-ships in the mix, as well as the Early Years, someday.


Also, I am quite sure that there is no mystery about my views on both Omega and the Magellanics!
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irbaboon
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Joined: 07 Jul 2007
Posts: 39

PostPosted: Sat Jun 07, 2008 2:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Scoutdad wrote:
The Federation doesn't use gunboats (they have the "third Way" instead)

The newest Captains Log will have Borders of Madness playtest ships cards for a Federation and a Klingon Carrier. There are also Borders of Madness rules for other empire's fighters. Then there are multi level rules depending on how deep you want to get into it:
Direct fire weapon fighters only
Direct Fire and Drones
and a special rule for using drones as a direct fire weapon (kinds weird - but...)
Our group will definitely be using these rules, along with the scout rules to play some bigger battles.

Yes, there were X-fighters, and the pre-eminent type that comes to mind is the Stinger-X


Unfortunately, I had a strong feeling FC was going to go down this path with the release of hydrans...

This is why my store no longer orders FC products.
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pneumonic81
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Joined: 23 May 2008
Posts: 275
Location: Austin TX

PostPosted: Sat Jun 07, 2008 3:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

your store doesnt order FC products because of fighters?
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Scoutdad
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Joined: 09 Oct 2006
Posts: 4461
Location: Middle Tennessee

PostPosted: Sat Jun 07, 2008 3:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think he means the store doesn't stock Fed Comm because of the potential for ever increasing rule bloat and the continual release of expansions resulting from said bloat.

My FLGS will not stock it for the same (albeit unwarranted reason). He feels that there is already one Star Fleet Battles on the market (and he has a SFB:BS that's been on the shelves for a s long as I can remember...). He feels that the eventual size of the product line will discourage new players from taking the leap and making an initial purchase. He doesn't have the room (nor the dollars) to stock a product that he feels will not sell.

NOTE!: This is only his opinion - I do not agree with it, but until I win the lottery and open my own FLGS, it's his store - his money. All I can do is continue to special order stuff there, try to keep him apprised of what's new and what's planned, and hope other people get into the game.
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defurusu
Lieutenant JG


Joined: 20 Nov 2006
Posts: 85
Location: London, UK

PostPosted: Sat Jun 07, 2008 4:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The single most important race we don't have yet is the ISC. The sooner we see them, the better.

I'm open to persuasion on Andros, but have never really liked them.

It always seemed to me that one of the give-and-take conditions of allowing the later, better Andro units was X-ships.

That said, in FC every ship plays the game from Reserve Power in a distinctly Andromedan-esque fashion. So maybe there really isn't that much to worry about.

The difficulties involved in getting Stingers into a state SVC was happy to publish suggest that Fighters for everybody is best avoided. (Except for the Hiver, who I would like to see and believe would not be too difficult.) Keep them in Borders of Madness, along with Scouts, Maulers and such like.

Gunboats for all I could certainly tolerate - but FFs are so close in operation that I'm not sure they are at all necessary, or how they might be done.

I might suggest that one of the important facets of both Fighters and PFs in SFB is their intrinsic Electronic Warfare, and the rules allowing Carriers/Tenders to lend them ECM/ECCM. So keeping this whole can of worms in BoM looks like a sensible idea.

To think I was an all-the-EW-rules-please player of SFB! Shocked

The Omega sector I definitely want to see - I've always been a big fan of this.
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Nerroth
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Joined: 08 Oct 2006
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Location: Ontario, Canada

PostPosted: Sat Jun 07, 2008 11:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'd agree that only in cases like the Hivers - who had a racial-specific reason for using 'fighter' sized craft (to them, fighters were their frigates - and gunboats were their destroyers!) should FC have any kind of need for more fighter-esque rules.

I'd also add the Souldra, who really need to at least have Black Shards if they are to work in some kind of equivalent to their SFB selves, as well as perhaps the Starswarm monster to that category.
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mjwest
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Joined: 08 Oct 2006
Posts: 3472
Location: Dallas, Texas

PostPosted: Sun Jun 08, 2008 2:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

irbaboon wrote:
Unfortunately, I had a strong feeling FC was going to go down this path with the release of hydrans...

This is why my store no longer orders FC products.

Do note that the FC fighter rules are "Borders of Madness" only. That means they are not in FC proper, and probably won't be for quite a while, if ever. FC has a long, long way to go before it ever gets into the diversity of options and "rules bloat" that is seen in SFB.

But hey, if introducing Hydran fighters makes you stop stocking FC in your store, so be it.
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mjwest
Commodore


Joined: 08 Oct 2006
Posts: 3472
Location: Dallas, Texas

PostPosted: Sun Jun 08, 2008 2:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Scoutdad wrote:
The Federation doesn't use gunboats (they have the "third Way" instead)

Note that there are two solutions to this issue.

1) Give the Federation gunboats. While the Federation "didn't really" use them, Federation gunboats are available in SFB. Steve has said he doesn't want to give the Federation gunboats (to stick with the SFU), the debate is still in the future.

2) Just use the FC equivalent of F-111s. In many ways they are "half-gunboats" in SFB already. They just have their "fiddly" bits tossed, and scaled to be about 2/3rds as powerful as gunboats end up being. Really, it isn't that hard, and won't create any real problems.

Quote:
Yes, there were X-fighters, and the pre-eminent type that comes to mind is the Stinger-X

Uh, the only X-fighters are the Stinger-X. Anything else is just a pre-X fighter carried on an X-ship.
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mjwest
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Joined: 08 Oct 2006
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Location: Dallas, Texas

PostPosted: Sun Jun 08, 2008 3:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Scoutdad wrote:
I think he means the store doesn't stock Fed Comm because of the potential for ever increasing rule bloat and the continual release of expansions resulting from said bloat.

Which, of course, makes no sense.

So, how is that line of reasoning supposed to work? Does that mean he really wants to see no new products for FC? Isn't that the best way to guaranteed no one will stock it?

If someone doesn't stock it because he can't sell them game, fine. If someone doesn't stock it because he hates the game or has some burr in his pants about the game, fine. But saying he won't sell the game because the publisher wants to keep the line alive with new products is disingenuous at best, an outright lie, or moronic.
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Last edited by mjwest on Sun Jun 08, 2008 5:32 pm; edited 1 time in total
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pinecone
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Joined: 03 May 2008
Posts: 1865
Location: Earth

PostPosted: Sun Jun 08, 2008 4:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mjwest wrote:

Quote:
Yes, there were X-fighters, and the pre-eminent type that comes to mind is the Stinger-X

Uh, the only X-fighters are the Stinger-X. Anything else is just a pre-X fighter carried on an X-ship.


I guess the (Scoutdad's favorite Hydran Insult) Hydrans always got the first dibs on good fighters. Smile
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pneumonic81
Lieutenant Commander


Joined: 23 May 2008
Posts: 275
Location: Austin TX

PostPosted: Sun Jun 08, 2008 8:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

fighters, like any other kind of new ship or race is optional. all you need to play fed com is a copy of klingon border.

thats why im for more expansions. will i get them? probably. but it doesnt matter because all you need to play the whole game is one game, klingon border. the rest is optional IMHO.
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jmt
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 09, 2008 12:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would like to see FC treatment of lots of the things in SFB, but that being said, I think that its mandatory that the remaining two major powers - ISC and Andros - should be included in FC.

After that, I think most everything else can be "borders of madness" type of situations: gunboats, troop ships, lesser races, Omega, Magellanic Cloud, etc. These kind of things are needed if FC is to fill the role of "fleet level SFB".
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willhc
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Joined: 10 Mar 2008
Posts: 46
Location: Redmond, WA

PostPosted: Mon Jun 09, 2008 3:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'd be very happy to see FC fill in a lot of the rest of the SFB universe. Any store that stops stocking FC due to rule bloat better not be stocking Warhammer/40k either, there's rule bloat like mad (and mini bloat, bleh talk about daunting to get into).

I for one would like to see more fighters/carriers for all races. I'd love to be able to use FC for better fleet level use and carrier fleets are the worst ones in SFB. Making them a bit easier to manage would really help.

That said, if the product need to stay simple, then just add in the races that use existing rules and weapons and keep the exotics out of it. There are plenty of things to do for a number of years before that is used up. After that, start including things like the Omega/Magellanic races.

Andros...well, I could live without seeing those in FC. I rarely used them in SFB in all my years and while interesting and challenging, are not necessary. ISC, on the other hand, are more in line with what FC could use.
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pinecone
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 09, 2008 11:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

willhc wrote:

Andros...well, I could live without seeing those in FC. I rarely used them in SFB in all my years and while interesting and challenging, are not necessary. ISC, on the other hand, are more in line with what FC could use.


I think they are neccesary, for historicalness (is that even a word?). The Andromean invasion was an important part of the later SFU years.
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Dan Ibekwe
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Joined: 08 Mar 2007
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Location: Manchester UK

PostPosted: Sun Jun 15, 2008 12:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I really want the Andros, and the Frax and also the Vudar.

I'd prefer to see fighters as a Hydran-only weapon, and PFs left to SFB.

The next thing on the wish list would be an official, integrated set of campaign rules.

Scouts and X-Ships would be OK at a later date, but with rules and effects simplified to fit the FC ethos.
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