Federation Commander Forum Index Federation Commander
A NEW fast paced board game of starship combat!
 
 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

Drone turning after launch
Goto page 1, 2  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Federation Commander Forum Index -> Rules Questions
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Kang
Fleet Captain


Joined: 23 Sep 2007
Posts: 1960
Location: Devon, UK

PostPosted: Sun Jul 06, 2008 5:25 pm    Post subject: Drone turning after launch Reply with quote

Did I read somewhere about a drone having to fly one hex straight ahead before it can turn? Or was I dreaming..... Embarassed I ralise a drone can HET if and only if it can then hit its target, and it must do so. But is there any delay after launch before the HET is allowed?

Let me give an example. Launching ship in 0807, facing D. Target in 0808, facing B. Drones just launched at the end of last impulse, facing D. Target and drones all Speed 24, no accels plotted and target has no turn or slip available and has no power for a HET.

So in sub-pulse 2, the target moves to 0908. Now, can the drones HET and move into 0908 to impact the target, or do they have to move forward one first to 0809 and then HET or turn?

Sorry if this sounds a bit daft but I was sure I'd read it somewhere. I have read somewhere that for a same-hex launch, the drones have to follow for 1 impulse, but again, can they not HET and impact? Didn't someone invent a tactic about that?

Please advise!
_________________
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
mjwest
Commodore


Joined: 08 Oct 2006
Posts: 3492
Location: Dallas, Texas

PostPosted: Sun Jul 06, 2008 5:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rule (2C3b) details the requirement (and exceptions) for moving out of a launch hex by a seeking weapon. (It is in the third paragraph.)

Based on the final sentence of the above mentioned third paragraph of (2C3b), the drone would HET and immediately impact the target.

What happens with a same hex launch is this:
- Both ships are in a single hex. Let's say 0505. Target is facing A. Drone is launched, placed in hex 0505, and given facing A to match the target. Everything is moving base speed 24.
- Drone does not immediately impact, as it can only do this in a movement sub-pulse, which has not yet happened.
- At the beginning of the next impulse, Target purchases an acceleration.
- First sub-pulse, the Target moves into hex 0504. Since the drone is speed 24 (not 24+1 like the Target), it does not move. Since neither unit moved into the hex of the other unit, the drone does not impact.
- Next sub-pulse, the Target moves again, this time into 0503. The drone follows, and enters 0504.

As you can see, the Target is now one hex in front of the drone, and can stay there as long as it keeps its speed at 24.

Again, this all assumes that the Target is moving base speed 24 (along with a host of other things).
_________________

Federation Commander Answer Guy
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Kang
Fleet Captain


Joined: 23 Sep 2007
Posts: 1960
Location: Devon, UK

PostPosted: Sun Jul 06, 2008 5:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you for that - very fast reply!

As a follow-on, then, iwith a slight modification to your last example, if the target was in the same hex as the launcher but moving in the opposite direction, the drone would have to be fired at the target as it was in front of the launcher - with the target in the drone's FA arc. However, let's say the target was moving spd 24 with no accel [no power left] - would the drone then HET and catch the target on the very next impulse? Hope that's clear...
_________________
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
Scoutdad
Commodore


Joined: 09 Oct 2006
Posts: 4468
Location: Middle Tennessee

PostPosted: Sun Jul 06, 2008 5:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ksang: As I understand the rules, you are correct.

Seeking weapons (i.e., drones in this case) must move straight ahead on the first impulse of movement before they can turn or slip.
Rule (4G3) MOVEMENT modifies this with... "Drones can make one High Energy Turn (2D2) during their entire time on the map, can only make this if doing so would mean hitting the target, and MUST (emphasis mine) if they can hit the target by doing so.

If the drone can HET and strike it's target on the first impulse of movement, it must [by (4G3) Sentence 4] do so.
_________________


Scoutdad's minis photos here!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Yahoo Messenger
Kang
Fleet Captain


Joined: 23 Sep 2007
Posts: 1960
Location: Devon, UK

PostPosted: Sun Jul 06, 2008 5:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Scoutdad wrote:
Seeking weapons (i.e., drones in this case) must move straight ahead on the first impulse of movement before they can turn or slip.

Thanks Tony. Can you plese let me know the rule number for that?
_________________
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
Scoutdad
Commodore


Joined: 09 Oct 2006
Posts: 4468
Location: Middle Tennessee

PostPosted: Sun Jul 06, 2008 6:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kang wrote:
Scoutdad wrote:
Seeking weapons (i.e., drones in this case) must move straight ahead on the first impulse of movement before they can turn or slip.

Thanks Tony. Can you plese let me know the rule number for that?

(2C3b) - third paragraph:
..."and must move one hex before they can turn. They could, however, make a High Energy Turn (4F3e)."
_________________


Scoutdad's minis photos here!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Yahoo Messenger
mjwest
Commodore


Joined: 08 Oct 2006
Posts: 3492
Location: Dallas, Texas

PostPosted: Mon Jul 07, 2008 2:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yup. The only way for a ship to avoid impact by a drone launched in the same hex is to be moving 24+1. At any other speed, the drone is guaranteed to hit because of the (4F3e) rule.
_________________

Federation Commander Answer Guy
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Kang
Fleet Captain


Joined: 23 Sep 2007
Posts: 1960
Location: Devon, UK

PostPosted: Mon Jul 07, 2008 12:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Very nice. Thank you both, gentlemen.

Incidentally, we played it that way on the day and yep, the drone got me Sad
_________________
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
junior
Captain


Joined: 08 May 2007
Posts: 803

PostPosted: Wed Jul 09, 2008 10:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mjwest wrote:
What happens with a same hex launch is this:
- Both ships are in a single hex. Let's say 0505. Target is facing A. Drone is launched, placed in hex 0505, and given facing A to match the target. Everything is moving base speed 24.


Something to keep in mind here...

Ships in the same hex maintain the same relative positions in relation to each other that they had when the last ship entered the hex. Additionally, drones must be launched so that the target is in the drone's FA arc. This means that the drone's facing shouldn't be chosen to match the target's facing. Instead, it must be placed to match the relative position in relation to the ship that fired the drone.

For instance, in sub-pulse 4 of an impulse, two ships enter hex 43. Ship 1 enters from hex 42 and is facing in direction D, while Ship 2 enters from hex 44 and is facing in direction A. During the launch phase, Ship 1 launches a drone at Ship 2. The drone must be launched so that the target is in it's FA arc. Since Ship 2 is in direction D from Ship 1, the drone must face in one of the following directions - C, D, or E (which are part of the FA arc). For the sake of argument, the drone is launched straight ahead into direction D.

During the next impulse, Ship 2 accelerates to 24+1 and it moves during sub-pulse 1 to hex 42. The drone does not move. During sub-pulse 2, Ship 2 continues on to hex 41. Now the drone must move straight ahead as its initial move which means that the drone ends up in hex 44. As a result, it actually moves farther away from its target. On the following sub-pulse, it will begin the process of turning to pursue its target.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
mjwest
Commodore


Joined: 08 Oct 2006
Posts: 3492
Location: Dallas, Texas

PostPosted: Wed Jul 09, 2008 11:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fair point.

Which just reinforces the idea that it is a bad idea to launch drones in the same hex as their target when the target is speed 24 and has energy left.
_________________

Federation Commander Answer Guy
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Kang
Fleet Captain


Joined: 23 Sep 2007
Posts: 1960
Location: Devon, UK

PostPosted: Sun Jun 28, 2009 1:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sorry for the necromany [is that right?] but I have another question on this topic so it's most likely the right place to put it.

Target ship in the same hex as the launcher, facing #1 to #1 shields, as in Junior's example above.

However this time the target is only going speed 8.

So then, does the drone impact in the second sub-pulse [when the drone is scheduled to move], and on the #1 shield of the slow target because the target has not yet moved?

And, does the target have time for a HET before the drone hits?
_________________
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
storeylf
Fleet Captain


Joined: 24 Jul 2008
Posts: 1879

PostPosted: Sun Jun 28, 2009 1:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm pretty sure the ship can HET on sub pulse 1, in fact he could HET on sub-pulse 2 as well before the drone impacts.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
terryoc
Captain


Joined: 07 Oct 2006
Posts: 1379

PostPosted: Sun Jun 28, 2009 3:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kang, the target ship could HET on sub-pulse 1 prior to impact. You can HET on sub-pulses that you're not scheduled to move. The drone would impact at the end of sub-pulse #1. If the drone and the target are in the same hex after all movement is performed on a sub-pulse, it impacts, regardless of whether the drone or target moved on that sub-pulse.
_________________
"Captain" Terry O'Carroll, fourteen papers published including six best of issue
"Man, Terry, you are like a loophole seeking missle!" - Mike West
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Kang
Fleet Captain


Joined: 23 Sep 2007
Posts: 1960
Location: Devon, UK

PostPosted: Sun Jun 28, 2009 4:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's clear - thanks everyone for your input Smile
_________________
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
storeylf
Fleet Captain


Joined: 24 Jul 2008
Posts: 1879

PostPosted: Sun Jun 28, 2009 5:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kang wrote:
That's clear - thanks everyone for your input Smile


Is the impact at any point clarified somewhere. A seeking weapon normally impacts when it 'enters' a targets hex, but I don't see anything about when it impacts if it is in the same hex already following a range 0 launch (it can't technically enter as it is already in) , I've taken it to be at the point it woud move, ie. sub pulse 2.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Federation Commander Forum Index -> Rules Questions All times are GMT
Goto page 1, 2  Next
Page 1 of 2

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group