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Dropping evasive maneuvers over a turn break
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jmt
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Joined: 08 Oct 2006
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 08, 2008 10:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So, to clarify:

Impulse 1: Go Evasive
Impulse 2: Moving Evasively
Impulse 3: Moving Evasively
Impulse 4: Declare ending Evasive Maneuvers; Moving Evasively
Impulse 5: Moving Evasively
Impulse 6: No longer moving evasively

Is this correct?
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mjwest
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 08, 2008 11:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Vladimyr wrote:
Just so I'm clear, there is no way to actually be evasive for the direct fire phase of Impulse #1, and still be able to fire on Impulse #2. Is this correct?


Yes, that is fundamentally correct.

There is one exception, though. You could perform an emergency deceleration at the beginning of Impulse #2, and you will be able to fire. Of course, you will also be stopped for the rest of the turn, so this is probably not a very good idea.
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mjwest
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 08, 2008 11:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

[EDIT: This is WRONG. Keep reading ...]

jmt wrote:
So, to clarify:

Impulse 1: Go Evasive
Impulse 2: Moving Evasively
Impulse 3: Moving Evasively
Impulse 4: Declare ending Evasive Maneuvers; Moving Evasively
Impulse 5: Moving Evasively
Impulse 6: No longer moving evasively

Is this correct?


No.

The problem is that you declare that you are ending Evasive Maneuvers at the end of the Defensive Fire Phase, but you don't actually stop until the Speed Change Phase (which happens earlier in the turn). Therefore, it would look like this:

Impulse 1: Go Evasive
Impulse 2: Moving Evasively
Impulse 3: Moving Evasively
Impulse 4: Declare ending Evasive Maneuvers; Moving Evasively
Impulse 5: Moving Evasively
Impulse 6: Moving Evasively
Impulse 7: No longer moving evasively

This is all clearly described in (2D4d), where its example shows the cancellation announcement in Impulse 3 and the ceasation in Impulse 6.
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Last edited by mjwest on Thu Jul 10, 2008 3:03 am; edited 1 time in total
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jmt
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 09, 2008 2:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Okay, after reading the rules, I can see it now.
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Vladimyr
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 09, 2008 5:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So does this mean that in order to start EM on Impulse #2 and plan to fire on Impulse #5, I have to announce both beginning and ending EM after defensive fire on Impulse #2?

This sounds kinda wacky.

The way the rules read to me is:

"(2D4d) Evasive Maneuvers continue until the end of the turn or until the player controlling the ship decides (during the Speed Change phase) to cancel Evasive Maneuvers. This cancellation cannot be made until two impulses after the announcement to start, so a ship which announced starting it on the Defensive Fire Phase of Impulse #3 could cancel it on the Speed Change Phase of Impulse #6."

It sounds to me that you may announce cancelling EM during the Speed Change Phase of an impulse at least 2 later than the impulse of the Defensive Fire Phase in which you announced starting EM.

This would indicate that you actually stop EMing on the impulse that you declare cancellation, and that your opponent has the movement phase to react to the situation before fire occurs.

I'm having trouble reading it any other way.
[/i][/b]
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mjwest
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 09, 2008 7:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lemme go back and reread it.

I might have gotten confused by the fact that I am having another discussion about Evasive Maneuvers elsewhere, and I am confusing concepts.

You may well be right.
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Mike
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 09, 2008 8:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The way I read (2D4d), the "announcement" refers to the announcement of the beginning of Evasive Maneuvers that can only occur at the end of the Defensive Fire Phase of some Impulse.

A player does not have to announce in advance that he is ending Evasive Maneuvers. He simply declares it during the Speed Change Phase of an Impulse that is at least two full impulses after the announcement of going to Evasive Maneuvers.
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Mike
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 09, 2008 8:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

As an example...

Impulse 1 - Normal things happen.
Impulse 2 - Player X announces at the end of Def. Fire that he is starting Evasive Maneuvers; the effect takes place immediately
Impulse 3 - Player X moves evasively.
Impulse 4 - Player X moves evasively.
Impulse 5 - During the Speed Change Phase, Player X declares that he is no longer under Evasive Maneuvers. He cannot declare Evasive Maneuvers any more during the present Turn.

Two full Impulses had to take place before X could "come out of Evasive" (as per the rule).
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gar1138
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 09, 2008 9:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mike wrote:
As an example...

Impulse 1 - Normal things happen.
Impulse 2 - Player X announces at the end of Def. Fire that he is starting Evasive Maneuvers; the effect takes place immediately
Impulse 3 - Player X moves evasively.
Impulse 4 - Player X moves evasively.
Impulse 5 - During the Speed Change Phase, Player X declares that he is no longer under Evasive Maneuvers. He cannot declare Evasive Maneuvers any more during the present Turn.

Two full Impulses had to take place before X could "come out of Evasive" (as per the rule).


I've always read it (and played) just the same. Evasive Maneuvers can only be started during the Defensive Fire phase and only stopped during the Speed Change phase (except for Emergency Deceleration, of course). So, for example, the soonest they could be started and stopped would look like:

Impulse 3 Defensive Fire - start Evasive Maneuvers (ship using EM)
Impulse 4 Speed Change - announce cancelling of Evasive Maneuvers (ship using EM)
Impulse 6 Speed Change - Evasive Maneuvers stop

or, alternatively:

Impulse 3 Defensive Fire - start Evasive Maneuvers (ship using EM)
Impulse 6 Speed Change - announce cancelling of Evasive Maneuvers (ship stops using EM immediately)

Basically, I have always played it as the ship has to use Evasive Maneuvers for a minimum of 2 impulses after starting it (during Defensive Fire) and can only stop it during the Speed Change phase.

Garrett
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jmt
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 09, 2008 11:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Vladimyr wrote:
So does this mean that in order to start EM on Impulse #2 and plan to fire on Impulse #5, I have to announce both beginning and ending EM after defensive fire on Impulse #2?

This sounds kinda wacky.

The way the rules read to me is:

"(2D4d) Evasive Maneuvers continue until the end of the turn or until the player controlling the ship decides (during the Speed Change phase) to cancel Evasive Maneuvers. This cancellation cannot be made until two impulses after the announcement to start, so a ship which announced starting it on the Defensive Fire Phase of Impulse #3 could cancel it on the Speed Change Phase of Impulse #6."

It sounds to me that you may announce cancelling EM during the Speed Change Phase of an impulse at least 2 later than the impulse of the Defensive Fire Phase in which you announced starting EM.

This would indicate that you actually stop EMing on the impulse that you declare cancellation, and that your opponent has the movement phase to react to the situation before fire occurs.

I'm having trouble reading it any other way.
[/i][/b]


This is how we've been playing it - until this thread... Guess I wait for a final statement.
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mjwest
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 10, 2008 3:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Vladimyr is entirely correct. I suffered from a brain cramp. Sometimes I can just be an idiot.

I totally apologize for the confusion.

Anyway, the way it works is:
Impulse X: Evasive Maneuvers declared at the end of the Defensive Fire Phase and begin immediately.
Impulse X+1: Evasive Maneuvers (may not cancel)
Impulse X+2: Evasive Maneuvers (may not cancel)
Impulse X+3: Can cancel Evasive Maneuvers in the Speed Change Phase.

Obviously, there are exceptions to this. If X is late enough in the turn, Evasive Maneuvers will end at the end of the turn. If the ship performs and Emergency Deceleration, Evasive Maneuvers are immediately stopped.

Again, sorry for the confusion.
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Kang
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 10, 2008 10:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

mjwest wrote:
Impulse X+3: Can cancel Evasive Maneuvers in the Speed Change Phase.

...and the change is in effect [i.e. I can fire, launch/guide seeking weapons, use tractors but also become a better target!] as soon as that impulse's movement subpulses have finished, I guess.....?

This means that the other players have one impulse's movement in order to react to the announcement, then. That's good. The point is that you don't have to announce dropping EM and then wait 2 impulses - right?

mjwest wrote:
Again, sorry for the confusion.

No problem. We all greatly appreciate your help on these forums, you know that Smile

Can I also ask - can an ESG be active during Evasive Maneuvers? Since it's kind of not a weapon that's 'fired' - or is it counted as 'firing' for the purposes of EM?
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pinecone
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 10, 2008 12:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

And what about ADD's or Anti drones from G-type drone racks? Can you use those during Evasive manuvers?
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mjwest
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 10, 2008 1:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

When Evasive Maneuvers are cancelled, you may fire, launch, etc. that impulse. There is no delay. The only "delay" is that you cannot cancel for two impulses after you start Evasive Maneuvers.

ESGs may not be used in any mode during Evasive Maneuvers. (This is a recent ruling.)

You may not fire anti-drones from either Federation-Style racks or ADD racks while using Evasive Maneuvers. They fall under the "fire any weapons" restriction in (2D4b).
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pinecone
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 10, 2008 3:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

so you can fire them after the cancelation, but before the ship stops moving evasively?
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