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New Rulebook
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Patrick Doyle
Lieutenant Commander


Joined: 18 Aug 2007
Posts: 208
Location: Norfolk, VA

PostPosted: Mon Oct 13, 2008 3:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SVC,
I personally would take the rough reference copy and pay the $15. The total errata document would be fine as well. I've had the good fortune to play some face to face games and quite a few games online as well (we are trying to iron out the tournament.). I haven't had the time to go to Kinko's and do some of this myself, so if you offered it as a single PDF or as a $15 book, I'd take it. I appreciate the offers, thanks.

Pat
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Davec_24
Commander


Joined: 16 Jul 2008
Posts: 596
Location: England

PostPosted: Mon Oct 13, 2008 4:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

For my part, a complete document of errata available as a PDF would be better than a printed mail-order only rulebook, mainly because of the practicalities of having this available in the UK as it would not be available through game shops over here and so I would have to buy it direct from ADB in the US - the shipping and any duty paid for which could well be costly. It would probably be easier from my point of view to have a document available to print out and put in or append to my Rev. 4 rulebook.
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Mike
Captain


Joined: 07 May 2007
Posts: 1559
Location: South Carolina

PostPosted: Mon Oct 13, 2008 4:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If it is provided in the paperback size, would it be available as loose pages that are hole-punched? They would fit nicely into a small size notebook.
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Scoutdad
Commodore


Joined: 09 Oct 2006
Posts: 4470
Location: Middle Tennessee

PostPosted: Mon Oct 13, 2008 6:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Steve, as one of the frequent users of the "reference rulebook", I would certainly pay for an upgrade to version 3, but if digest-sized becomes available, then that is certainly the way I'd go.

I have my ship cards in 5-1/2x8-1/2 binders and my counters and dice in trays of similar size, so it'd be a perfect match.

I have found a couple of typos in the 2nd draft of the refernece rulebook. I haven't bothered with a line item report yet, as I am still going through it - but I'll sendyou what I have so far. That way, if you choose to do a 3rd edition, you can make corrections as needed.
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mjwest
Commodore


Joined: 08 Oct 2006
Posts: 3495
Location: Dallas, Texas

PostPosted: Mon Oct 13, 2008 7:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

FWIW, I have also been talking with Kang about compiling all of the post-Briefing #1 rules notes offline. Unfortunately, I have not been able to do much on any of the rules updates issues as I, too, am trying to help get Y2 finished.

However, after Y2 is done, I plan on sitting down and working through the list of items so that Steve has as complete of a list of items as possible.
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Kang
Fleet Captain


Joined: 23 Sep 2007
Posts: 1962
Location: Devon, UK

PostPosted: Mon Oct 13, 2008 8:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Indeed. I don't mind keeping the rules reference up-to-date, under Mike's aegis as Rules Master of course Smile

The idea was to make it a sticky thread and to update that thread every time more updates are released in Communique. It would work in a similar manner to the 'Briefing #1 Rules Update' thread, but kept up-to-date as suggested.
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Davec_24
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Joined: 16 Jul 2008
Posts: 596
Location: England

PostPosted: Mon Oct 13, 2008 8:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sounds like a good idea, although a printable version would still be nice for incorporation into existing rulebooks. It would indeed be good to have a thread where rules updates are added as published so that we then get the best of both worlds, as it were - a "complete" hard copy as an interim until a new version rulebook is released, and a thread which can be used for reference when more rules updates are added.
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djdood
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Joined: 01 Feb 2007
Posts: 2925
Location: Seattle, WA

PostPosted: Mon Oct 13, 2008 9:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would have been interested in a "Reference rulebook third draft" up until a few weeks ago. I knew this wasn't likely to happen until after "War and Peace", so I started on my own project to build one of my own (kind of like OGOPTIMUS' excellent work). As I am nearly halfway done, I'm going to stick with it.

A "total errata document" would be welcome, but I'm wondering if it too would be instantly out-of-date. I'm assuming it wouldn't be maintained and would just be a "snap-shot in time". It's kind of like the Master Ship Charts - they're fantastic, but as soon as another Communique is posted they are usually obsolete. I can't see keeping the MSC or a total errata document current as the best use of valuable SVC time. I'd love to have the files, but I'd rather have new products.

I don't have a problem cut-and-pasting from the Communiques but I can see where a lot of other folks would like to have that done for them and presented as a compilation.
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mjwest
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Joined: 08 Oct 2006
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 14, 2008 12:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

A "total errata document" would be intended as a "living" document. The point would be to keep it up to date.

Now, something like a "reference rulebook" will always be a "snapshot in time". The key thing is to make sure it is at the correct time. Smile
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Kang
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Joined: 23 Sep 2007
Posts: 1962
Location: Devon, UK

PostPosted: Tue Oct 14, 2008 6:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

djdood wrote:
I would have been interested in a "Reference rulebook third draft" up until a few weeks ago. I knew this wasn't likely to happen until after "War and Peace", so I started on my own project to build one of my own (kind of like OGOPTIMUS' excellent work). As I am nearly halfway done, I'm going to stick with it.

A "total errata document" would be welcome, but I'm wondering if it too would be instantly out-of-date. I'm assuming it wouldn't be maintained and would just be a "snap-shot in time". It's kind of like the Master Ship Charts - they're fantastic, but as soon as another Communique is posted they are usually obsolete. I can't see keeping the MSC or a total errata document current as the best use of valuable SVC time. I'd love to have the files, but I'd rather have new products.

I don't have a problem cut-and-pasting from the Communiques but I can see where a lot of other folks would like to have that done for them and presented as a compilation.

I can see that you've already thought of it, dj! Smile

Yes, the idea would be a living document as you say. I would update it with each Communique's errata, so that there is a central document with all the errata in one place.

A new document would be started after each printed rulebook [ie Rev 5] is published, since the Rev 5 book would already contain the errata integrated in context.

The idea is for me to provide a service, albeit small [it will only take me 10 minutes a month] but hopefully it will be helpful. Current plans are that I will edit the file and send it to Mike, who will check my input and then upload the new edit to the thread.
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Davec_24
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Joined: 16 Jul 2008
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Location: England

PostPosted: Tue Oct 14, 2008 10:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

This would mean we will have a central compilation of the rules updates that is updated shortly after each rules change or update is made so that it won't be made out of date just a month or so after it's posted - at the same time it should be fairly practical to keep this list of rules changes up to date since it's an electronic post type article rather than a published PDF or paper copy and so it can just be added to in small pieces without the need to re-publish the whole lot each and every time it is updated. Sounds good... Smile
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OGOPTIMUS
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Joined: 10 Nov 2006
Posts: 981

PostPosted: Tue Oct 14, 2008 5:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kang wrote:
Yes, the idea would be a living document as you say. I would update it with each Communique's errata, so that there is a central document with all the errata in one place.

A new document would be started after each printed rulebook [ie Rev 5] is published, since the Rev 5 book would already contain the errata integrated in context.


If and when this happens, I'd like to see the Rev 4 version continue to be updated for a while past the release of Rev 5 since some people don't always buy the new product right away, or at all, and just wait for the next one while getting by with errata.

I know that's more work and all, I'm just voicing an opinion about the logistics of this.
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Kang
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Joined: 23 Sep 2007
Posts: 1962
Location: Devon, UK

PostPosted: Tue Oct 14, 2008 6:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

OGOPTIMUS wrote:
Kang wrote:
Yes, the idea would be a living document as you say. I would update it with each Communique's errata, so that there is a central document with all the errata in one place.

A new document would be started after each printed rulebook [ie Rev 5] is published, since the Rev 5 book would already contain the errata integrated in context.


If and when this happens, I'd like to see the Rev 4 version continue to be updated for a while past the release of Rev 5 since some people don't always buy the new product right away, or at all, and just wait for the next one while getting by with errata.

I know that's more work and all, I'm just voicing an opinion about the logistics of this.


You make a good point, OG. Basically I will cross that bridge when we come to it, but I don't see a problem with that idea at all.

We'll probably set it up as a different thread; one for pre-Rev 5 and one for Post, if that makes sense.
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Steve Cole
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Joined: 11 Oct 2006
Posts: 3081

PostPosted: Tue Oct 14, 2008 6:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The way to do it would be.....

1. Create the "consolidated errata" document and post it.

2. Every time we do a communique (the only time official rules updates are done) we update the ConErat and post the new one. No big deal, takes 5 minutes. If somebody found some published errata which is not in the ConErat, we'd add it the next monthly update.

3. We can do a reference rulebook any time. Leanna said ok as long as it doesn't slow down any other project.

4. When we do Revision 5, it would use the ConErat. We'd then start a new NeoConErat document which has the changes to Rev-5. If you have revision 4, you would need both documents, which probably would not be integrated.
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Davec_24
Commander


Joined: 16 Jul 2008
Posts: 596
Location: England

PostPosted: Tue Oct 14, 2008 8:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You would still have all of the rules updates pretty much in one place though, and even if you stuck with the Revision 4 rulebook (and so had two errata documents i.e. "pre" and "post" Revision 5 documents) it would certainly beat sifting through what will probably by that time be a few tens of Communiqies to find the appropriate rules updates. Smile
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