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Getting back into Star Fleet Batles

 
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fathertaylor
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Joined: 09 Nov 2008
Posts: 14

PostPosted: Sun Nov 09, 2008 8:19 am    Post subject: Getting back into Star Fleet Batles Reply with quote

Hi,

I used to play SFB way back when I was in University. I collected pretty much everything until about 1990 and still have all of it stored away. A little while ago I stumbled across Federation Commander and got hooked on it. After a few games with it, a friend and I started talking about SFB and how he would like to try it one day. I of course went looking for my old stuff and decided to compare it with the new products to see what I would need to do to bring it back up to date.

My question is how compatible is the old SSD's with the new rules? I have piles and piles of ssd books, the maps and more counters than I could ever use. Can I buy the master rulebook and pull out my old supplies or are the ssd's different now?

Thanks
Allan
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rlbell
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Joined: 27 Oct 2008
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Location: Calgary, AB

PostPosted: Mon Nov 10, 2008 2:35 am    Post subject: Re: Getting back into Star Fleet Batles Reply with quote

fathertaylor wrote:
Hi,

I used to play SFB way back when I was in University. I collected pretty much everything until about 1990 and still have all of it stored away. A little while ago I stumbled across Federation Commander and got hooked on it. After a few games with it, a friend and I started talking about SFB and how he would like to try it one day. I of course went looking for my old stuff and decided to compare it with the new products to see what I would need to do to bring it back up to date.

My question is how compatible is the old SSD's with the new rules? I have piles and piles of ssd books, the maps and more counters than I could ever use. Can I buy the master rulebook and pull out my old supplies or are the ssd's different now?

Thanks
Allan


Having played nearly all versions of the rules, except the last pre-doomsday edition, the SSD's are all still good to go (as far as I know), except for the PF's, the Fed CV, and, possibly, the andromedans. At some point, the klingon D7 went from two to four APR. The Fed CV went from a cruiser hull to a DN hull and lost the photon freezer.

The andromedans got a complete rework. They were too powerful, under the old rules, but amusingly brittle if you actually got one to crack, as I saw a Dominator fail to evade the complete plasma load of a Condor (enveloped, where possible). It took forty, or fifty internals from the plasma, and still more from the Condor's phaser dump. It had no hull, or batteries left, after that serious abuse, so when the next inbound phaser kocked out a PA panel, it went into the cascade failure mode of every panel hit destroyed one, or two more panels. The andromedan player lost all hope for the vessel, when the first any weapon hit was scored.

Of minor historical note, the original Fed DN was nowhere near as aweful, when it was the only DN and had a movement cost of 1.0
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mjwest
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Joined: 08 Oct 2006
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Location: Dallas, Texas

PostPosted: Mon Nov 10, 2008 3:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

1990 is about when the Captain's Edition came out.

So, the question is this: Do you have the first edition Captain's SSDs, or do you have the Commander's SSDs?

If you have the Captain's SSDs, then you are good to go. (I know ADB sold an "update pack" that contained the SSDs from basic products that had been converted to Captain's Edition.)

If you have the old Commander's SSDs and are willing to live with some random anachronisms, then you are still good to go. Quite frankly, while the list of changes made to ships between the editions is surprisingly long, they are almost all fairly minor. Therefore, except for the items rlbell mentions, you can probably just ignore the changes and work with what you have.

So, I would encourage you to go ahead and get the Master Rulebook and go for it.

(And, thinking about it, you can probably just use the Commander's Edition Andromedans with two caveats: 1) Use the new rules no matter what; 2) All TRs on SC4 ships are Light TRs. Only SC 2 and 3 ships have Heavy TRs.)
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fathertaylor
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Joined: 09 Nov 2008
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 10, 2008 4:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the info guys.

The last thing I bought in 1990 was actually the pre-release of the Captains edition of the basic set. It has a book of ssd's that cover a whole bunch of fleets. For some reason I also have the Captains Module K for fast patrol ships dated 2000. Not sure how or why I got it, but I do.

I'm not sure I really want to spend a ton of money on updating my SFB when I just started Fed Commander and am buying up all of it's expansions (one day I might try something without going overboard Razz ). For now I'll probably start by buying the master rulebook and then buy some ssd books if I want to update mine.

Thanks again for the info.
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mjwest
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 10, 2008 4:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Double-check those SSDs, then. You could have bought the "update package" I was referring to. If so, you are probably good to go with just getting the Master Rulebook.

If not, don't forget you can get the various SSD books as spare parts.
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fathertaylor
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 10, 2008 5:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok another question.

I was looking at the master rule book and it say sit doesn't have the ship descriptions. Does this mean it is missing all the R and upwards sections from the various books? I understand the annexes are not part of it, and would buy that seperately, but just want clarification on the R and S sections.

If that is the case and instead I chose to buy the sets, would the various books all combine to make one cohesive book like the master rule book? This is assuming of course I went with the loose leaf hole punched versions of the books.
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mjwest
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 10, 2008 5:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, it is true that the Master Rule Book only includes sections A-P,W-Y. It does not contain any R sections, nor does it contain any S sections, even the really useful S1-8.

If you bought the existing rule books as spare parts and in loose-leaf, hole-punched format, you could easily (well, mostly) divide them up and reorganize them into a fairly cohesive whole. Unfortunately, most of the last bits of errata are not included in all of the rule books, and can only be found in the Master Rule Book. (Hopefully, someone will correct me if I am wrong.)

Also, the Master Rule Book includes all of the rules (sections A-P) of the Basic Set, Advanced Missions, C1-3, J1-2, K, R10, Y1, X1. (R10 had a couple snazzy rules [plasma sabot, carronade] put into it.) It could be a rather costly exercise to get that wide of a set of rules by buying all of those rulebooks as spare parts.

(Just for clarity, the Master Rule Book does not include anything from sections R or S, nor does it contain the rules for C4-5, any of the other R modules, Y2, X2, or anything Omega.)
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Dal Downing
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 10, 2008 6:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The simple answer is yes the Master Rule Book does not include any information from the R (Ship Description), S (Scenerio), T (Mini Campagins?) or the X1 (I am pretty sure). It is strickly the rules in one fairly complete and upto date format. If you choose to by all the Set and Expansions and R1 - R12? or is it 13 yet. Yes you would have a complete rule set but that would cost a small fortune. Somewhere and I am not sure where I Scutdad listed what everything was and it was HUGE...

But there is a a long pause here... SVC is working slowly, aka in spare time Laughing and in good faith jester on the Master Ship Book. This is not a item that will be available anytime soon but it is getting looked at and maybe a paragraph to page or to done a week. When it is completed it will be the entire R Section for the Master Rule Book. Wither it will all be done at on time or one Race at a time I don't really know.
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mjwest
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 10, 2008 4:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The MRB (Master Rule Book) does contain the rules for X1. These rules even include the X-update (e.g. no overloaded phasers).

But, getting back to the real question, again, the MRB does not contain any of the R section or any of the scenarios (S,T,U). To get those, you would have to buy the various rule books as spare parts and assemble a combined rule book.
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fathertaylor
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 12, 2008 2:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks guys.

Not exactly what I wanted to hear, but all good info. I guess I might have to cut the R and S sections out of my old books before I get rid of them.
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Scoutdad
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Joined: 09 Oct 2006
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 12, 2008 9:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

fathertaylor wrote:
...I guess I might have to cut the R and S sections out of my old books before I get rid of them.


Sacrilege! How dare you even suggest that! Shocked

Everyone knows that all, out-dated SFB books must be placed on a pedeastal, preferably in a prominent place where all can be enamoured by your ability to comprehend the minutia of historical SFB. Wink
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fathertaylor
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Joined: 09 Nov 2008
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 12, 2008 10:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Apparently the set of everyone does not include my wife or two small children. Being carefully cut out and placed in a new binder to be stored safely out of the way is a better fate than a lot of my stuff meets. Smile
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